Halo 2, Half Life 2 Or Doom 3

[thebluenewt]

It's never crashed for me Rico.

 

[Fishbong]

@ Mosch: you ´re so right. I recommend any of yuo not to buy HL2, thus not supporting steam. If you want to play it, then do it in a cybercafé, since it´s not that long, it will also cost you less.
Sadly, if you go to the steampowered.com board, you ´ll see many gamers who are actually DEFENDING steam (though many threads get closed because of abusive comments against steam :lol: :lol: :lol: ).
It´s still a brilliant game.

 

[Rico]

It's never crashed for me Rico.

​

Good for you, but I get memory access violations - not often. Once on a bridge during Water Hazard (replayed later because I lost my quicksave - no errors). Again in Ravenholm when going round a corner, then again later up some stairs of a nearby building.

It doesn't happen often enough to be -really- annoying, and I do quicksave excessively anyway. But it'd be nicer if it didn't happen.

 

[Twimfy]

I haven't really had any problems with the game, except a little of the infamous freezing sound bug...but I am running onboard sound. I hated steam to begin with but now I love it seeing as the installation of HL2 deathmatch was seamless, in the past I would've had to pay a fiver for PCgamer just for an update.

 

[Fishbong]

@ Twimfy: Well, there are updates on the OFFICIAL PAGE of the publisher, you know... And buying a magazine just because of the updates on CD/DVD is quite stupid... Anyway, wouldn´t expect an other thing from a steam defender.

PS: Has steam any actual merits for the customer (besides of cheater protection, and that doesn´t apply to HalfLife 2 !)?

 

[Huxley]

Eh? What's so bad about steam?

basically they write that they reserve the right to charge you for using Steam any time they want, that they may stop Steam any time they want

Valve have supported the original Half Life since 1999. What on earth makes you think they'll just drop HL2 and walk away? And the possibilities of charging players to use steam is just as unlikely but also a moot point - people are seemingly happy to pay yearly fees to play Xbox Live and MMORPGs (not me though) so why would pay to play HL2 be such a horrible thing? Besides, once registered Steam can operate in an offline mode so they'll never be able to stop you from playing HL2 singleplayer.

you can't rent it, there is no Demo and if you don`t like it, neither the shop you bought it in nor Valve will take it back (the shop because it's open and we all know how easily CDs are copied and keys are written down and Valve because of their EULA

Valve can't control store's return policies. If you've bought a copy of HL2 off the shelf from a store like GAME they'll take it back as part of their no-fuss return policies. And if you bought it from a shop with a crappy return policy Steam can hardly be blamed for that.

Really, I think you're demonising Steam before you've even tried it. Its by no stretch of the imagination a perfect system but for an early example of online distrubution I think they've done a good job. If you don't like Steam you won't much like the future of games distribution - don't be surprised to see the PS3 using something similar.

 

[declaration]

Valve can't control store's return policies. If you've bought a copy of HL2 off the shelf from a store like GAME they'll take it back as part of their no-fuss return policies. And if you bought it from a shop with a crappy return policy Steam can hardly be blamed for that.

​

GAME don't offer their no fuss returns policy on PC games.

As if no one has ever bought a console game, copied it and returned it.

 

[Huxley]

My bad. I don't buy many PC games so I had no idea. But if this applies to all PC games sold off the shelf then again Steam can't be blamed.

Well, not like you'll be disappointed by HL2 anyway.

 

[Mosch]

Eh? What's so bad about steam?

basically they write that they reserve the right to charge you for using Steam any time they want, that they may stop Steam any time they want

Valve have supported the original Half Life since 1999. What on earth makes you think they'll just drop HL2 and walk away? And the possibilities of charging players to use steam is just as unlikely but also a moot point - people are seemingly happy to pay yearly fees to play Xbox Live and MMORPGs (not me though) so why would pay to play HL2 be such a horrible thing? Besides, once registered Steam can operate in an offline mode so they'll never be able to stop you from playing HL2 singleplayer.

1. The single fact that Valve says that they may stop Steam and you can't do anything against it. Steam can operate Offline? didn't know about that. So, in five years they stop Steam and I buy a new computer. I will be able to install Half Life 2 then?
And yes, people happily pay for MMORPGs, but that is hardly similar - you know you'll have to pay monthly fees for that. Now I buy Half Life 2 for 55€ and when I install it Steam pops up: "Enter your credit card details, we are charging an installation fee of 10 bucks" - that would be great, wouldn't it? You'd be supporting starving Valve programmers. And while the box doesn't say anything about that, it's OK to pay because, well, people pay for MMORPGs so I might pay as well for HL2.
Really, the contract they have there is a violation of so many right that is isn't even funny anymore, and they top it off with besically telling you that you can not demand to play the game you paid big bucks for.

you can't rent it, there is no Demo and if you don`t like it, neither the shop you bought it in nor Valve will take it back (the shop because it's open and we all know how easily CDs are copied and keys are written down and Valve because of their EULA

Valve can't control store's return policies. If you've bought a copy of HL2 off the shelf from a store like GAME they'll take it back as part of their no-fuss return policies. And if you bought it from a shop with a crappy return policy Steam can hardly be blamed for that.

Really, I think you're demonising Steam before you've even tried it. Its by no stretch of the imagination a perfect system but for an early example of online distrubution I think they've done a good job. If you don't like Steam you won't much like the future of games distribution - don't be surprised to see the PS3 using something similar.

​

Of course Valve can't control store return policies, but that the ONE AND ONLY thing that is not directly related to Valve. And when I tell Valve that I disagree with their EULA and the store won't take it back, they damn well should give me back my freaking money. After all, THEY wrote the EULA, not my local MediaMarkt. There is no shop here I know that would not laugh at you for trying to return an opened PC game that you have obviously tried to install. If there is something wrong with the game, they will - for example if the CD is badly scratched or similar. What would stop people from buying, copying and returning otherwise? that's not crappy, that is smart.
Oh, and I didn't blame Steam for that, that has nothing to do with it, I blame Valve's legal department and their return policies. And THEY can be blamed for their crappy return policy. Why give an option to accept the EULA at all....

I have seen Steam in action. The idea behind it might be OK, but the execution is just horrible. They are basically begging you to get a crack from the internet.

 

[Huxley]

1. The single fact that Valve says that they may stop Steam and you can't do anything against it. Steam can operate Offline? didn't know about that. So, in five years they stop Steam and I buy a new computer. I will be able to install Half Life 2 then?

They'd provide a non-steam version if they decided to pull the plug. ID still sell the original Doom and Vavle still sell Half Life today, so I'd imagine they'll still be selling HL2 in five years even if Steam isn't around. And yes Steam can operate offline but needs to be registered online, which means you must have an internet connection (which is actually my main gripe with Steam).

And yes, people happily pay for MMORPGs, but that is hardly similar - you know you'll have to pay monthly fees for that. Now I buy Half Life 2 for 55€ and when I install it Steam pops up: "Enter your credit card details, we are charging an installation fee of 10 bucks" - that would be great, wouldn't it? You'd be supporting starving Valve programmers. And while the box doesn't say anything about that, it's OK to pay because, well, people pay for MMORPGs so I might pay as well for HL2.

Yes, but they don't charge an installation fee, do they? MMORPG's work on a subscription system because the servers cost more to run than a regular game. I'd imagine Valve are covering themselves incase the need for a similar monthly charge arises. And what's wrong with paying a monthly fee anyway? If you don't want to pay, don't pay it. I wouldn't. They can't (and won't) stop you playing the singleplayer version offline.

And when I tell Valve that I disagree with their EULA and the store won't take it back, they damn well should give me back my freaking money.

Perhaps, but I think this would be asking a lot from any developer. Why would Valve return your money if the store won't?

They are basically begging you to get a crack from the internet.

No, they're basically asking you to agree to a T&C. I mean, come on, it's only a game! Buy it, install it, play it and enjoy it like everyone else. I'm sure you'll be able to complete it before Valve start charging $50 a mouse click install a camera inside your monitor to track your eye movement

 

[Mosch]

Huxley, it's not the probability of anything of that ever happening. It is simply the fact that Valve ignores (German - don't know about any other) law and states that they may stop you from playing the game if they feel like it. Come on, it's only a game. Yeah. It's a game I might pay 55€ for, and to me that is quite an amount of money, and for that money I expect the right to play the game whenever I feel like it. Yes, MMORPGs cover the cost for a running server. Valve can just say "It's in the EULA" and basically do whatever they want.

You know, they might provide a no-Steam version. But from their EULA, they don't have to.

You see, my major gripe is that they reserve the right to do whatever they damn well want with you, and I am sure as hell not paying money for that. It's not even only about the quality of the game (I expect it is great) or Steam, it is because Valve is a big organisation and thinks they can get away with such a contract. And how about that? I'll say it again, if I do not want to accept this contract I have no way of getting my money back.
EDIT: I expect them to give me back my money because there is no way of reading the EULA before unpacking the game. If I disagree with the EULA, I am out 55€ just like that? Sorry, that's blatantly against the law.

Just think about it, Huxley. Please tell me: Which personal details did you provide for Steam?

 

[Octavious]

im pissed at valve also
and to the guy who complained that Halo 2 only lets ya cary 2 guns, thats the exact same as Doom 3's no gun light and Half Life 2's physcs engine
its all ways to make the game indivgual and have to use strategy mroe than Quake or something where you run and gun, these threee games you need to think
its something that makes these games good, the fact that you have to get into it, not just run through holding mouse click and be done in 3 hours ( unreal tournament )
so dont compare Quake and any of these games, cause these games you need to get into

~Octavious

 

[Mosch]

and to the guy who complained that Halo 2 only lets ya cary 2 guns, thats the exact same as Doom 3's no gun light and Half Life 2's physcs engine
its all ways to make the game indivgual and have to use strategy mroe than Quake or something where you run and gun, these threee games you need to think
its something that makes these games good, the fact that you have to get into it, not just run through holding mouse click and be done in 3 hours ( unreal tournament )
so dont compare Quake and any of these games, cause these games you need to get into

~Octavious

​

That be also be me

If you like it, play it. I don't like it, I don't play it.

Anyway, I think there's a great difference between the amount of weapons in a game and the physics engine used...

And in Halo, when do I have to think? I didn't! Grab a gun, kill everything, rinse and repeat. Doom 3, thinking? About what? "Do I use my flashlight or not?" Doom 3 doesn't require you to think more than any other shooter.
If I may recommend it, try playing Undying by Clive Barker. That game is not only athmospheric as hell, but you also have to think a little more (How can you actually kill a skeleton? There is this barrier, how can I remove it (and this is no simple switch puzzle)? What the heck am I supposed to do here in this "Oneiros"?) and the weapons are quite unconventional. Also you can decapitate a sexy, cannibalistic undead girl with an ancient celtic scythe, set her head on fire and hurl it into an abyss; that alone makes the game good, and if that doesn't work for you, the pinnacle of coolness is that you can convince your enemies to kil themselves (not each other - I am talking about suicide here)

Once again: I play Undying, you go and have fun with Halo. I didn't like it, I don't demand you to like Undying

 

[Huxley]

Just think about it, Huxley. Please tell me: Which personal details did you provide for Steam?

I can't remember.

And I am thinking about it. I'm thinking about the fact that I paid £25 for a game, agreed to the T&C and now I'm enjoying it very much thanks. I even got CS:Source and the multiplayer mode for free.

If Valve do decide to pull the plug on Steam (which they won't) I'll worry about it then. Really, it's only a game.

 

[Mosch]

Just think about it, Huxley. Please tell me: Which personal details did you provide for Steam?

I can't remember.

​

Me neither, else I wouldn't have asked

Once again, I also doubt they'll pull the plug on Steam, but it's mainly the company politics that defines them as being stunningly and embarissingly full of shit. Though the Steam installation is a nuisance anyway...

 

[thebluenewt]

Undying scared the crap out of me, I only played the demo though.

 

[Squidge]

HL2 is brilliant, but I *hate* steam. It take a few minutes to even begin loading, and if your net connection is down, stretch that to about 5 - 6 minutes as you can't enable offline mode yourself.

Also, your HL2 cd-key is associated with your steam account, and can't be associated with another or they both get blocked (from what I've read, anyway), so this prevents some piracy (probably about 1%), but it also means you can't lend it to your mates or sell it, which sucks.

 

[Huxley]

Also, your HL2 cd-key is associated with your steam account, and can't be associated with another or they both get blocked (from what I've read, anyway), so this prevents some piracy (probably about 1%), but it also means you can't lend it to your mates or sell it, which sucks.

​

Odd...from what I've read you can use the same copy of HL2 on another computer but you can't use the same account, you have to create a new one. Could anyone verify either way because I'll be wanting to shift my copy from my bro's computer to my own in a few days time! :huh:

 

[Zayfod]

As far as the whole "you've opened the box so we won't give you your money back" thing that people are getting from shops, in the UK at least they arn't alowed to do that. If you disagree with the EULA you are able to return it under the "not fit for purpose" clause in one of the consumer protection laws. The same law covers knackered CDs and other stuff like that... Unless of course they've changed the laws in the last five years and not told anyone... :unsure:

 

[Iorgy77]

Just finished Halo2... I still don't get what all the fuss is about... I would trade Halo2 for GTA:SA any day.