"hacking" Nethack

[gamefan999]

Nethack is really enjoyable for me, very oldschool D&D fun, but it is totally exasperating that there are not multiple savestates in the program. It's basically, play until you die, then start a new game. I personally don't have the time to be starting from Level 1 every 30 minutes! I'd like to make some progress in this game.

I am going to try to make backups of the one savestate that is allowed, and copy and paste it back to the main folder if I get killed. But this will be a tedious process, requiring a save-and-exit, a trip through the GP2X's Explorer, and then a restart of the game.

Does anyone know of a way to actually hack/alter/change/(cheat?) the game to enable it to support multiple savestates? I hope I'm not just being a whiner here, but imagine having to restart Diablo at level 1 every time you got killed! Really annoying, and a bummer to gameplay. Add to it, there's no "Home" level with shops and such, to cool down and resupply, just random, almost useless, markets in the dungeons.

Anyway, it's a cool little game and a lot of fun, but this would make it even better. Thanks to any pro's who have any insight into this.

 

[Shikaku]

... Mode, please close this topic...

Go into wizard mode and do things like this. Nethack is not this type of game.

 

[Dzz]

Nethack is really enjoyable for me, very oldschool D&D fun, but it is totally exasperating that there are not multiple savestates in the program. It's basically, play until you die, then start a new game. I personally don't have the time to be starting from Level 1 every 30 minutes! I'd like to make some progress in this game.

I am going to try to make backups of the one savestate that is allowed, and copy and paste it back to the main folder if I get killed. But this will be a tedious process, requiring a save-and-exit, a trip through the GP2X's Explorer, and then a restart of the game.

Does anyone know of a way to actually hack/alter/change/(cheat?) the game to enable it to support multiple savestates? I hope I'm not just being a whiner here, but imagine having to restart Diablo at level 1 every time you got killed! Really annoying, and a bummer to gameplay. Add to it, there's no "Home" level with shops and such, to cool down and resupply, just random, almost useless, markets in the dungeons.

Anyway, it's a cool little game and a lot of fun, but this would make it even better. Thanks to any pro's who have any insight into this.

Nethack is not really supposed to be "Diablo with bad graphics". Nevertheless, I certainly understand that some people do not care for the wildly random and capricious gameplay, and want quicker satisfaction than can normally be achieved. I have the following advice:

1) Name your character "wizard". If you do this, you will be in wizard mode. There is a new menu off the main menu with various cheats in it, and when you get killed you don't have to die. No fair saying "that's cheating" because we crossed that bridge already

2) It's not THAT tedious to copy the save files. I'd say once you get used to it you could probably do it within a minute (save+exit, copy files, restart game). That gives you "slightly painful" savestates.

3) A script or custom program could probably make (2) even less painful.

4) The source is on the archive. A developer wishing to add this functionality could do so. They'd have to keep up with new releases as I make them but they will be less frequent now and there should only be a few left before I call it "done". I will not add it myself as it is clearly against the Nethack spirit -- the Nethack devs could easily have added this feature many years ago if they wanted to.

Lots of options.

 

[gamefan999]

Thanks for the insight from the dev (?) here. I am getting better at the "manual" savestates, it was more a problem with working out the clunky copy/paste of the GP's Explorer, but as you say, it's getting better.

Also, it wasn't my intention to make a comparison to Diablo! I like Nethack just the way it is - well, almost, except for the lack of savestates. I've played Moria and Larn back in the day, and even those ascii D&D games had savestates. I appreciate the coders' sense of "purity" or "honor" or whatever inspired them to make a one-play-only game, but some of us don't have all day to master an enormous game's finer points, and would like to save and restore after being ambushed in a 4th level Dwarven mine by a swarm of killer bees(!!).

Also, sorry to have offended your tender sensibilities, Shikaku... I humbly beg pardon for not magically having your preexisting knowledge. Calling the "mode" to close a topic that asks legitimate questions in the proper forum; it must just not seem right to you.... (sigh).

 

[Shikaku]

XD I meant mods... it's called typos, and pointing them out to make me look bad for your argument isn't very nice.

But do as you please. It's just not part of the game and idea, and you do have time, just much less sporadic =)

 

[gamefan999]

XD I meant mods... it's called typos, and pointing them out to make me look bad for your argument isn't very nice.

Right, well neither is calling for the closing of a legitimate topic before it even gets addressed (quite politely and legitimately by the developer himself, if I am not mistaken). %^/

 

[Kannibaal]

Back on topic.

Your sense of accomplishment will be less when you're using a way to save multiple savegames.

That every game allows for multiple saves means for me that probably the saving is part of the gameplay tweaking of the game.

You come to a difficult point, you die 20 or 30 times, restore 20 or 30 times and then you beat the boss, or the level or whatever. Wow the game has 40 hours of gameplay you think! (of which 20 hours is about looking at the load/restore screen)

Most of the time however when you die in nethack, it is your own fault. You could have gotten some protection sooner, you could have made the game safer by using the right strategy. etc. etc.

People are playing this game for literaly decades and they still haven't ascended. (I'm playing it off and on for 6 years now and I've not ascended yet)

Would people do that if it was easy, or if they could walk right through? The devteam which is still developing the game is still playing the game because it is still a fun challenge for them....

In nethack for example you will get the additional chance of a Boneslevel when you die (you leave a ghost behind or something other undead, with as a bonus a large stash of probably cursed things which could be helpfull for your current character)

Still it is your own choice but it could be difficult to go back to nonsaving mode after you've been there for to long.

There was a point here I wanted to make but in the mean time I forgot about it. :huh:

Oh yeah found the point again, If you want to play nethack proper, you should first try it the way the developers intended ( give it a year ) and not play the game in a way that you think (related to other games) it should be. You may be pleasantly surprised.

Marco

 

[gamefan999]

Well thank you for taking my topic seriously! I mean that seriously.

Yeah I hear you, I can definitely see the thinking behind the original mode of play. I must say, I was getting better even after a dozen or so games. It's possible I have been conditioned by other multi-save games, but then again, the multi-save model exists for a reason! Any game could follow this model, after all, allowing nothing but save-to-restart. And it would take years to finish any game, after all!

The first Hitman in the series followed a similar model (actually a bit more stringent); *no* saving until a level was finished. And it got a lot of bad PR, despite being a very fun and popular game. So the second Hitman in the series implemented a graded savestate feature; the higher the level of difficulty chosen, the fewer savestates allowed per episode.

But at least that original model allowed a level-based save, that is, you didn't have to go back to the beginning of the game every time you got killed. You just had to restart the level you were on.

Maybe if Nethack allowed a save based on the last dungeon completed, that might be a little more realistic.

Anyway, I do understand the original model, and I might even try it after I play through a while using saves. I actually did have a "Boneslevel" as you call it; I found my own ghost and my own cache of items from a previous game! It was pretty funny. Then I died, and restored, and it didn't reappear. Oh well! That's the challenge of a diferent manner of play. I think the game is plenty fun and challenging even using multisaves.