Grass Roots Efforts To Promote Wiz Development?

[torpor]

Howdy guys,

As a new WIZ owner and developer, one thing thats been on my mind recently is this: what can we do to increase the quality and flow of software for the WIZ in the immediate future?

Of course, as a developer, I think: fix the toolchain, get the kernel sources, add features that make it nicer to code for the WIZ than it is right now, etc.

And then, from a user side of things, I think: we need to get more promotion of interesting projects happening.

What avenues do we have to promote new game development on WIZ? Are any of you guys aware of upcoming coding/demo competitions that might feature the WIZ as a target? Anyone know of some really interesting stuff happening behind the scenes in this direction, yet?

I really look forward to the next 'breakaway underground sensation' happening in our scene, and if its soon, and for the WIZ (my current active toy), all the better. What killer games are out there just waiting to be discovered, in your opinion?

 

[RupeeClock]

A large problem the Wiz faces is it's smaller screen, which is proving a challenge to make games more comfortable to play as of right now.
(320x240 res on a small screen is not a good idea).

As such, existing GP2X software may not port so well, new games should be designed taking the small screen size into account.

 

[Jan-Nik]

what can we do to increase the quality and flow of software for the WIZ in the immediate future?

Get OpenGL ES working But unfortunately I think there's nothing that WE can do about that, we'll have to wait for GPH to release a working opengles.so file.

 

[OAMADEUSO]

Get touch screen working. And by that I mean fully working on the same level as the DS.
Even calibrated mine is off by several mm around the edges not workable for anything other than "thumbing" a button.

Again this is something only GPH can do...

 

[RupeeClock]

My touch screen is often off by entire cms, it seems to be a software problem since everything writes to the top-left corner or the bottom-right corner only, at times...

 

[Optimistic]

My touch screen is often off by entire cms, it seems to be a software problem since everything writes to the top-left corner or the bottom-right corner only, at times...

My touch screen works just fine as far as I can tell---even got a top score on Animatch yesterday---so maybe it's a hardware thing (I just got my Wiz from ED's shop last week).

 

[stevenp]

My touch screen is often off by entire cms, it seems to be a software problem since everything writes to the top-left corner or the bottom-right corner only, at times...

I got a similar problem. It's a tad frustrating when the touch screen is off by a few mm.

 

[iprice]

A large problem the Wiz faces is it's smaller screen, which is proving a challenge to make games more comfortable to play as of right now.
(320x240 res on a small screen is not a good idea).

I disagree. The Wiz may be small, but the screen is absolutely perfect for small games. I'm currently developing (and have developed) games for Wiz and the screen is great - nice and clear. Better to have a small clear screen than a large fuzzy/crap one like PSP. The machine is comfortable to use IMHO. The touchscreen though is pretty ropey.

As for encouraging developers - feedback on projects is always a good idea. Positive and critical is always welcomed. It's certainly better than being left in the dark about your project.

I suspect that the majority of Wiz owners will be players though, not coders. You have to wonder exactly how many developers there are at present working on the Wiz, and how many of those will drop the Wiz once the Pandora arrives. Don't forget there's the Dingoo, GP2X, iPhone/Pod Touch too amongst a zillion other machines now - there aren't enough people to develop for all of them.

I suspect that the Wiz will gain a niche following, with a nice selection of games, but nowehere near as many as GP2X or the Pandora (over time) and nowhere near a fraction of iPhone/Pod.

 

[Alex.]

Iprice is right, the amount of feedback people leave on software is a joke. Emulators and ports of popular commercial games are an exception as always, but that's beside the point.

 

[RupeeClock]

I think the mentality of downloading software is to blame.
Even though people are downloading software for the Wiz system they learnt about from play-asia or where-ever, they don't think of the software as being made by individuals, or by large teams looking for profits when it comes to piracy.

Downloaders are pretty much just takers, pretty sad.

 

[DaveC]

I think the mentality of downloading software is to blame.
Even though people are downloading software for the Wiz system they learnt about from play-asia or where-ever, they don't think of the software as being made by individuals, or by large teams looking for profits when it comes to piracy.

Downloaders are pretty much just takers, pretty sad.

I don't know if you can blame that entirely. The thing is people are so used to playing games through emulators. Most of these games have allot of great sound and graphics and people get used to that. There are deep RPGs with huge areas to explore with great musical scores and shooters with huge eye-candy bosses etc made by teams of people. Then someone makes one game that will usually have simplistic sound composed of beeps and blips and circles and rectangles for graphics. After playing NeoGeo and SNES games etc those others just don't stand out. Not to say the simple stuff can't be well designed and be fun (Spout comes to mind, terrible graphics, but fun) but many people will just look at screenshots and not bother. While that may be unfair and unfounded that is probably one of the main reasons.

 

[iprice]

I think the mentality of downloading software is to blame.
Even though people are downloading software for the Wiz system they learnt about from play-asia or where-ever, they don't think of the software as being made by individuals, or by large teams looking for profits when it comes to piracy.

Downloaders are pretty much just takers, pretty sad.

I don't know if you can blame that entirely. The thing is people are so used to playing games through emulators. Most of these games have allot of great sound and graphics and people get used to that. There are deep RPGs with huge areas to explore with great musical scores and shooters with huge eye-candy bosses etc made by teams of people. Then someone makes one game that will usually have simplistic sound composed of beeps and blips and circles and rectangles for graphics. After playing NeoGeo and SNES games etc those others just don't stand out. Not to say the simple stuff can't be well designed and be fun (Spout comes to mind, terrible graphics, but fun) but many people will just look at screenshots and not bother. While that may be unfair and unfounded that is probably one of the main reasons.

Sorry, but I disagree. Go to the archives (any archive,not just here). Look at any file and see how many downloads it's received. Now look at how much feedback it has received. I'm pretty certain that not only those that left feedback enjoyed the software. If it was purely down to the graphics, then many of those games and apps wouldn't have been downloaded. There is a massive disparity between those that use the software and those that take the time to say thankyou, if nothing else. As a developer, it can be very disconcerting to not receive any recognition of the time and effort that have been put into a game or app. It's not just here - this is everywhere.

 

[torpor]

On the downloaders-as-leechers issue, I think if it were possible for people to make small payments to the authors of software they use, the would do it. This is why the iPhone is so great - its very, very, very easy to pay for software.

So, some sort of appstore, which presents the titles nice and easily for downloading, and which allows payments to the authors, would definitely sort this issue out.

For now, though, what I think needs to be done is to get the development tools in better shape.

 

[iprice]

On the downloaders-as-leechers issue, I think if it were possible for people to make small payments to the authors of software they use, the would do it. This is why the iPhone is so great - its very, very, very easy to pay for software.

But that's not what I was talking about. I develop freeware games and remakes and I don't want to go commercial. This also doesn't equate to communicative feedback - I want to know if users like my game, find it too easy or too hard. I want to know if there are bugs or problems that I can fix/improve in any required updates. Someone buying a game in an app store for 50p aren't more likely to give more feedback than someone getting the game for free.

For now, though, what I think needs to be done is to get the development tools in better shape.

As for better tools, there are already several good tools (commercial and freely available) to enable software creation for the Wiz. Undoubtedly they will only grow in number, performance and usability over the lifetime of the Wiz, but it's still very early days yet. There are certainly more than enough to keep you interested for a wee while - what are you after, specifically?

 

[OAMADEUSO]

On the downloaders-as-leechers issue, I think if it were possible for people to make small payments to the authors of software they use, the would do it. This is why the iPhone is so great - its very, very, very easy to pay for software.

But that's not what I was talking about. I develop freeware games and remakes and I don't want to go commercial. This also doesn't equate to communicative feedback - I want to know if users like my game, find it too easy or too hard. I want to know if there are bugs or problems that I can fix/improve in any required updates. Someone buying a game in an app store for 50p aren't more likely to give more feedback than someone getting the game for free.

Speaker as a downloader here...

Is the comments section of the download page the best place for feedback anyway?

Normally I leave feedback in the release thread. That allows for a better back and forth IMO.
With quoting etc.
This site could make it so you can only download if you're a member and get an automatic "Nag" email if you don't give feedback. (eBay do this)

Unless it's a very niche scene you will always get more downloaders than creators though.

 

[iprice]

Is the comments section of the download page the best place for feedback anyway?

It's as good a place as any, especially since the archives are where most people will grab the software from. Just looking at the Wiz archive - there are apps that have been downloaded upto 400 times, with only one or two comments. That's quite sad. Also, the archive can't nag you if you don't sign up/register.

I agree that the forums are the best place to leave feedback, but not everyone is a member of the forums or wants to find the thread that the game belongs to and even then feedback is quite limited.

As long as feedback is left somewhere though by even just a few, I'm a happy bunny and hopefully other devs would be too.

It has to be said though that having to register to leave a comment is poor, but then maybe you should have to register to download too? It takes a couple of minutes to sign up and register and then you can get hours, days, weeks, months a lifetime's worth of gaming goodness.

There is no easy answer though. And there will always be more takers than givers and users than devvers.

 

[torpor]

But that's not what I was talking about. I develop freeware games and remakes and I don't want to go commercial. This also doesn't equate to communicative feedback - I want to know if users like my game, find it too easy or too hard. I want to know if there are bugs or problems that I can fix/improve in any required updates. Someone buying a game in an app store for 50p aren't more likely to give more feedback than someone getting the game for free.

If your users aren't providing you any feedback, its your fault for not making it easy for them to do so .. Put up a web link, at the very least, in your splash screen .. and make it easy for them to comment. Start a forum.

Its not so hard to build community. But it is *your* responsibility to do so.

Apropos: what tools do I want for Wiz? Well a working OpenGLES lib, for starters, would be nice. And tons of samples to test all the libs we have onboard, as well .. and a working g_ether module, would be nice, for remote debugging. I can think of a few other things, but that'd do for a start ..

 

[Orkie]

If your users aren't providing you any feedback, its your fault for not making it easy for them to do so .. Put up a web link, at the very least, in your splash screen .. and make it easy for them to comment. Start a forum.

Makes no difference. Users do not give feedback and that is a fact unless you go and ask them specifically (of course, you have no way of knowing who uses your stuff if it is a freely available download so you can't ask).

 

[iprice]

If your users aren't providing you any feedback, its your fault for not making it easy for them to do so .. Put up a web link, at the very least, in your splash screen .. and make it easy for them to comment. Start a forum.

Sorry, but that's a total crock and makes absolutely no difference - exactly as Orkie said. I guess if other users take the same view as you, then wanting feedback is asking for the earth. Why should devs even bother? The forums ALREADY exist. So do comments sections. How can you possibly make it ANY easier than I've already stated. If users don't join the forums or register for the archives, they're not going to or aren't able to comment anyway.

 

[torpor]

Bah, you're pathetic. Are you a developer or aren't you? If your users do not communicate: DO NOT BLAME YOUR USERS. A good developer, with a good title, will get feedback. Its proven. A fact.

Orkie, well, he's a very pessimistic fellow, lately. I think he's got a bit of a chip on his shoulder about how a scene develops and progresses. Maybe one too many flame wars for him.

Why should devs even bother? The forums ALREADY exist. So do comments sections. How can you possibly make it ANY easier than I've already stated. If users don't join the forums or register for the archives, they're not going to or aren't able to comment anyway.

Oh, its all so helpless and sad, waah, waah. You are boring to discuss this with.

Make it easier? Hell yes you can make it easier; put feedback *in the game*.. geeze. Forums, registration? Does your game just handle it all for your users, or do they have to make believe they're filing their taxes, just to gain the '[privilege]' of being able to worship their favourite developers?

Honestly, I sometimes wonder what they put in you kids' kool-aid. Whats a matter with having a little fun with your users?

Case in point: Connect 4 Online - for Android. An excellent system of user contribution. Plus, googles "Provide Rating" feature == awesome for all involved in its usage.