Has Wiz Development Died?

[Exophase]

I only wish we had gadget serial or gadget eth.. this would make developing for the Wiz a whole lot easier. The stupidest thing they did was remove functionality that was known proven working on the GP2X, such as gadget-ether/-serial. Sheesh.

The Wiz does have the hardware for it, they just never got the drivers working right.

 

[aho]

[...]
as noted in another dev thread i cannot update the executable on the sd card and just start it again, without getting weird errors/crashes. after rebooting the whole wiz everything is just fine.
[...]

Try dropping the caches. This seems to solve all reload issues.

http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/49295-error-while-loading-shared-library-although-its-there/page__view__findpost__p__750785

 

[aho]

For someone who is doing nothing but making games as a hobby, who cares what language they use as long as they get the end result they want? If they aren't going to be applying those skills elsewhere, there is absolutely nothing wrong with them locking themselves into this. Your arguments all seem to rest on things that the developers really don't care about, you're arguing based on yourself. Sure, they could port things to/from android, but maybe they already decided they never wanted to? Just because they aren't doing it doesn't mean they didn't think about it already. You have a lot of arguments that only work if we're talking about you, but all they prove is that you yourself should be using C/C++ instead of Fenix/Bennu. That's great, you don't have to. The reason we have so many programming languages is because they all serve different purposes and some people work better in one instead of the other. Hooray! Technology is wonderful! Stop arguing, can't you see we have all these wonderful languages? Let's all use whichever one we want and make some software instead of telling someone they're doing everything all wrong and should be doing it THIS way instead.

That's completely the wrong direction. I do NOT enjoy working with C/C++ therefore I won't enjoy working with Fenix/Bennu.

And of course I'm talking about myself and my point of view, because I haven't polled everyone's opinion and therefore I do not know why those people who currently aren't developing for the Wiz decided against it.

I only mentioned that Fenix/Bennu uses the same paradigm as C/C++. It's also very low level and you also have to take care of memory management yourself. This means it attracts the same type of developers as C/C++ does. I.e. people who like to trade time for performance. There is of course nothing wrong with that, but not everyone is like that.

That's why I said that Fenix/Bennu isn't a great addition, because it doesn't really add much. I.e. it doesn't expand the audience in a different direction. It pretty much only takes a share of that area which was already covered.

Also, why should I care which language other people are using? It doesn't matter to me. Just like it doesn't matter what other people eat or which kind of music they prefer. I only care about things like paradigm coverage. There should be different languages which do things differently.

E.g. I thought it was pretty ace that Orkie bothered to port Python/Pygame over to the Wiz, because this is really fundamentally different stuff. Unfortunately Python is a tad too slow for the interesting range of applications. It's barely fast enough for some simple puzzle games, but that's it. Scrolling 2d stuff for example isn't an option.

I hope this was clear enough.

 

[iprice]

E.g. I thought it was pretty ace that Orkie bothered to port Python/Pygame over to the Wiz, because this is really fundamentally different stuff. Unfortunately Python is a tad too slow for the interesting range of applications. It's barely fast enough for some simple puzzle games, but that's it. Scrolling 2d stuff for example isn't an option.

But that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Puzzles and fast action games can be easily and quickly created with Fenix and Bennu. Why praise something that is slow and criticise something else that can do more and faster. Why does that make Python/Pygame better than Fenix???

:S

 

[aho]

E.g. I thought it was pretty ace that Orkie bothered to port Python/Pygame over to the Wiz, because this is really fundamentally different stuff. Unfortunately Python is a tad too slow for the interesting range of applications. It's barely fast enough for some simple puzzle games, but that's it. Scrolling 2d stuff for example isn't an option.

But that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Puzzles and fast action games can be easily and quickly created with Fenix and Bennu. Why praise something that is slow and criticise something else that can do more and faster. Why does that make Python/Pygame better than Fenix???

:S

I praised someone, not something.

Python/Pygame isn't better than Fenix. It's different from C/C++. That's the point. (I.e. it appeals to developers with a different paradigm bias.)

 

[zx-81]

Between two posts on "my langage is better", just to let you know that a new homebrew is out with touchscreen support. If you like board game you will surely like "Wiz mancala" (on my blog).

Good fight

 

[aho]

>Between two posts on "my langage is better" [...]

And another one who thinks that's the big idea.

Alright. I give up. I explained it about half a dozen times by now. I really can't be arsed anymore.

 

[Exophase]

>Between two posts on "my langage is better" [...]

And another one who thinks that's the big idea.

Alright. I give up. I explained it about half a dozen times by now. I really can't be arsed anymore.

You mean repeating the same thing over and over again is a waste of time?

 

[aho]

>Between two posts on "my langage is better" [...]

And another one who thinks that's the big idea.

Alright. I give up. I explained it about half a dozen times by now. I really can't be arsed anymore.

You mean repeating the same thing over and over again is a waste of time?

If there is no effect, yes, absolutely.

 

[Exophase]

If there is no effect, yes, absolutely.

But why would repeating the same thing over and over again ever not have an effect?

 

[aho]

If there is no effect, yes, absolutely.

But why would repeating the same thing over and over again ever not have an effect?

Dunno. Maybe I should have drawn some depressing diagrams.

 

[DaveC]

I only wish we had gadget serial or gadget eth.. this would make developing for the Wiz a whole lot easier. The stupidest thing they did was remove functionality that was known proven working on the GP2X, such as gadget-ether/-serial. Sheesh.

Sorry to hijack the off-topic flamewar about which language is better <_<

This is something I don't get. Devs complain about difficulty of development on the Wiz due to the lack of these simple things. While I agree with you that these things are needed I don't understand why no one has corrected this.

No one complains about development, and actually like developing on, other platforms like PSP, DS, Dingoo, Phones, etc. Do these devices all come with an SDK complete with these "gadgets" ? Do they all come with these things built-in or something? The PSP? I doubt that as they try to discourage homebrew coding with frequent FW updates. So where are these utilities for these other devices comming from? The communities? Fairies? Santa Claus? If is from the community then howcome no one bothers making these utilities on the Wiz, a supposedly "open" platform where the source code is even available for the firmware? Emulators are written with all kinds of complex dynarec and ASM cores but a simple linux hack to make deving easier is somehow in the realm of impossibility? I must be missing something here it doesn't make sense.

 

[Exophase]

Sorry to hijack the off-topic flamewar about which language is better <_<

This is something I don't get. Devs complain about difficulty of development on the Wiz due to the lack of these simple things. While I agree with you that these things are needed I don't understand why no one has corrected this.

No one complains about development, and actually like developing on, other platforms like PSP, DS, Dingoo, Phones, etc. Do these devices all come with an SDK complete with these "gadgets" ? Do they all come with these things built-in or something? The PSP? I doubt that as they try to discourage homebrew coding with frequent FW updates. So where are these utilities for these other devices comming from? The communities? Fairies? Santa Claus? If is from the community then howcome no one bothers making these utilities on the Wiz, a supposedly "open" platform where the source code is even available for the firmware? Emulators are written with all kinds of complex dynarec and ASM cores but a simple linux hack to make deving easier is somehow in the realm of impossibility? I must be missing something here it doesn't make sense.

A while ago people were mentioning that a big advantage of Wiz over Dingoo was that it officially runs Linux. I responded saying that this is actually a major disadvantage, because lack of official Linux means that there's a lot of motivation for someone who knows what they're doing to do it correctly. This is exactly what happened with the Dingoo, while on the Wiz no one felt like bothering since GPH already did a half-assed job.

That's only half of the story though, the truth is that Dingoo's Linux is really anything but unofficial, since the core chunk of it was provided by Ingenic. They must not suck as much as Magic Eyes when it comes to supporting Linux, and GPH is helpless to improve the situation. Something like Open2X is sorely needed here, but on GP2X it came far too late to really have much of an impact (no offense to those working on it)

Still, one other thing about what you said: even though PSP was never intended to run unsigned code Sony still made it easy to upload things to it from the start.

And yes, fixing drivers IS a very difficult task if you don't even have datasheets/manuals for the hardware. Such is the case for the USB chip, so it's going to take someone who really knows what they're doing to get it working. All of those complex emulators you mentioned, let's just say no one has bothered to write one specifically for the Wiz, and I doubt anyone will.

 

[crow_riot]

No one complains about development, and actually like developing on, other platforms like PSP, DS, Dingoo, Phones, etc. Do these devices all come with an SDK complete with these "gadgets" ? Do they all come with these things built-in or something? The PSP? I doubt that as they try to discourage homebrew coding with frequent FW updates. So where are these utilities for these other devices comming from? The communities? Fairies? Santa Claus? If is from the community then howcome no one bothers making these utilities on the Wiz, a supposedly "open" platform where the source code is even available for the firmware? Emulators are written with all kinds of complex dynarec and ASM cores but a simple linux hack to make deving easier is somehow in the realm of impossibility? I must be missing something here it doesn't make sense.

take the iphone, the DS, the PSP. of course they are all coming with advanced developer stuff from the producers. of course you need to be enrolled in their development program, but at least something exists you can build upon. as i mentioned before, an open firmware is more than nothing, but still not enough. if we ("the community") at least get some more details on the hardware (programming-wise), we could at least fix some bugs (a timer that is non working is not fun to use
from my point of view (i own my wiz for about 2 months now and was never in the 'homebrew' scene before...) the community is still too small to get everything done in 2 days. PSP/DS/Iphone, how many units have been sold in comparison to the wiz... ?

 

[torpor]

I had a tackle of the usb gadget-eth issue on the Wiz, but seriously : its a total mess. Nobody has been able to fix it yet.

 

[DaveC]

while on the Wiz no one felt like bothering since GPH already did a half-assed job.

Something like Open2X is sorely needed here, but on GP2X it came far too late to really have much of an impact (no offense to those working on it)

Such is the case for the USB chip, so it's going to take someone who really knows what they're doing to get it working. All of those complex emulators you mentioned, let's just say no one has bothered to write one specifically for the Wiz, and I doubt anyone will.

I am not sure why no one felt like bothering *since* GPH did a half-assed job. I would think there would have been some attempt to fix it. I could see no one bothering if it worked well and had all of the USB networking stuff already. I mean people port linux to anything. I think they port it to cameras, calculators, wrist watches and anything with a piece of silicon in it (Ok slight exaggeration). They had a start on the Wiz but it needs allot of work. Some linux fans actually see that as a challenge rather than a hinderance. They love the chance to make it right.

Yes Open2X would have been nice on the Wiz but no one is working on it it seems.

I guess that is right about no one writing the emus for the Wiz, they are ports of GP2X ones. I guess this is due to the lack of USB networking. I guess we just have to wait for the Pandora to arrive.

 

[Exophase]

I am not sure why no one felt like bothering *since* GPH did a half-assed job. I would think there would have been some attempt to fix it. I could see no one bothering if it worked well and had all of the USB networking stuff already. I mean people port linux to anything. I think they port it to cameras, calculators, wrist watches and anything with a piece of silicon in it (Ok slight exaggeration). They had a start on the Wiz but it needs allot of work. Some linux fans actually see that as a challenge rather than a hinderance. They love the chance to make it right.

Yes Open2X would have been nice on the Wiz but no one is working on it it seems.

I guess that is right about no one writing the emus for the Wiz, they are ports of GP2X ones. I guess this is due to the lack of USB networking. I guess we just have to wait for the Pandora to arrive.

If there's nothing out someone has to bother. If there's something out people will often not feel as motivated to do a better version, even if it has problems.

On the other hand I think you talk too much about what other people should be doing, but then again you kinda always have ;p