Gph/digisys Gpl Compliance W/ 1.3.0 Firmware

[DaveC]

Despite not being a copyright holder my rights have still been violated.  I was falsely advertised too.  It may not have meant much to you, but to me the marketing bullet points of Open Source, GPL, and GNU/Linux were major selling points.  It was one of the primary reasons I bought the device in the first place.  Before anybody even ask, no I don’t want a damn refund.  I’ve bought 4 AA NiMH batteries for this damn thing, a high end battery charger, a 2gb SD card, a TV-Out cable, and a screen protector all of which I have no use for besides my GP2X.  Getting my money back for the console still screws me out of quite a bit of money for those accessories.  For me there is only one satisfactory solution the problem, GPL compliance.

​

And if GPH gets sued into oblivion you will be stuck with a worthless orphaned brick. Maybe you should sell it now before that happens. Or throw it and all of the accessories on ebay. It seems to be headed that way as the GPL nuts won't quit until GPH is gone. And before you claim that they will just comply first, maybe they can't. Maybe Dignsys has told GPH to "fuck-off" when they asked for the source. It is not like GPH has infinite cash reserves to sue dignsys to comply or something, do you see the SNAFU?

 

[racoon]

OK , I just recently read an article linked by someone here in this community to a FSF speaker, who said that THEY DO NOT force companys to pay penaltys, in most cases they only make them release the sources, so don't start complaining about GPH being sued into the ground before anything really starts...

Anyways, they said they are going to release the 1.3.0 Firmware with sources next week, I don't like the idea myself but let's just give them this last week...

 

[DijiTao]

And if GPH gets sued into oblivion you will be stuck with a worthless orphaned brick. Maybe you should sell it now before that happens. Or throw it and all of the accessories on ebay. It seems to be headed that way as the GPL nuts won't quit until GPH is gone. And before you claim that they will just comply first, maybe they can't. Maybe Dignsys has told GPH to "fuck-off" when they asked for the source. It is not like GPH has infinite cash reserves to sue dignsys to comply or something, do you see the SNAFU?

Actually, I'm sticking with they’ll comply before being sued into non-existence; it's just a matter of who legal action will be taken against. If GPH is a victim in this, as in Dignsys told them to fuck-off, then it will be Dignsys whom legal action will be taken against. If compliance is the goal (and it is) and this isn’t about money or punishment, then who in there right mind would fight what is obviously a loosing legal case and not just comply. If Dignsys is at fault, Dignsys will comply. I really think it’s that simple.

 

[DijiTao]

OK , I just recently read an article linked by someone here in this community to a FSF speaker, who said that THEY DO NOT force companys to pay penaltys, in most cases they only make them release the sources, so don't start complaining about GPH being sued into the ground before anything really starts...

That's how I see it -- I don't really see GPH going out of bussiness over this I just see one of two things happening. They comply now, or they comply later.

Anyways, they said they are going to release the 1.3.0 Firmware with sources next week, I don't like the idea myself but let's just give them this last week...

As they don't release any new firmware without sources, I'm inclined to let it slide for awhile.

 

[Squidge]

Patience people, you don't think, after all thats happened, that they are prepared to release another version of the firmware without first getting the source code ready too do you? No doub't it'll be released when they are happy with it.

It's easy to throw out new version with a few squashed bugs every week or so (as long as you can find the bugs that is, but with the amount flying around, it shouldn't be too difficult ), but all of a sudden, they have to do a lot more each time, so it will obviously take longer and other jobs will no doubt take priority.

All this means is that we get updates less often, but when they arrive, they contain far more fixes. Which can only be a good thing - flash updating every week only wears out your nand...

 

[Hanz™]

Despite not being a copyright holder my rights have still been violated. I was falsely advertised too. It may not have meant much to you, but to me the marketing bullet points of Open Source, GPL, and GNU/Linux were major selling points. It was one of the primary reasons I bought the device in the first place. Before anybody even ask, no I don’t want a damn refund. I’ve bought 4 AA NiMH batteries for this damn thing, a high end battery charger, a 2gb SD card, a TV-Out cable, and a screen protector all of which I have no use for besides my GP2X. Getting my money back for the console still screws me out of quite a bit of money for those accessories. For me there is only one satisfactory solution the problem, GPL compliance.

​

And if GPH gets sued into oblivion you will be stuck with a worthless orphaned brick. Maybe you should sell it now before that happens. Or throw it and all of the accessories on ebay. It seems to be headed that way as the GPL nuts won't quit until GPH is gone. And before you claim that they will just comply first, maybe they can't. Maybe Dignsys has told GPH to "fuck-off" when they asked for the source. It is not like GPH has infinite cash reserves to sue dignsys to comply or something, do you see the SNAFU?

​

Dignsys shouldn't have to be sued to comply, they should have done it right from the start.

 

[Paradox]

Patience people, you don't think, after all thats happened, that they are prepared to release another version of the firmware without first getting the source code ready too do you? No doub't it'll be released when they are happy with it.

It's easy to throw out new version with a few squashed bugs every week or so (as long as you can find the bugs that is, but with the amount flying around, it shouldn't be too difficult ), but all of a sudden, they have to do a lot more each time, so it will obviously take longer and other jobs will no doubt take priority.

All this means is that we get updates less often, but when they arrive, they contain far more fixes. Which can only be a good thing - flash updating every week only wears out your nand...

​

isnt it like 1,000,000 flashes to the nand before it even starts showing sings of wear and tear?
something about the chip they use for the nand, its apparantly a good one that lasts ages..

 

[DaveC]

compliance is the goal (and it is) and this isn’t about money or punishment, then who in there right mind would fight what is obviously a loosing legal case and not just comply. If Dignsys is at fault, Dignsys will comply. I really think it’s that simple.

​

You are assuming intelligence, logic, and common sense. So far GPH or Dignsys has displayed none of those

 

[bjimba]

It's easy to throw out new version with a few squashed bugs every week or so (as long as you can find the bugs that is, but with the amount flying around, it shouldn't be too difficult ), but all of a sudden, they have to do a lot more each time, so it will obviously take longer and other jobs will no doubt take priority.

All we would need is a patchset against the official Linux 2.4.25 sources. It would be a matter of minutes to run 'diff' on the sources and upload it to source.gp2x.de.

My suspicion for the delay is that they haven't played by the rules, and have intermingled GPL and proprietary source without isolating the proprietary parts into modules that can be released in a binary-only format. (THIS IS PURELY SPECULATION ON MY PART, NOT AN ACCUSATION.)

 

[Flexinoodle]

GPL nuts hahahahahahhahah Dave you never cease to make me laugh hahahahahahah (Kinda comes across like people who are asking GPH to be honest are mad, Are you really trying to say that ?)

 

[Chip]

Wow, seven pages of ranting, speculation, and mud slinging over a complete non-issue. I always thought of myself as a GPL supporter, but now I'm not so sure.

There are maybe eight people on this board who would actually benefit from firmware source code, and none of them are complaining. It it really a shame that any good will there may have been between GPH, it's western distributors, and the community has been shot to shit just because certain "caring individuals" live to complain.

Anybody who just found out about this "situation" in the last few days from slashdot or the GPL community obviously doesn't have a GP2X. It's really none of their concern. I wonder if they know that their "helpfulness" has alienated the only handheld hardware manufacturer that doesn't go out of their way to prevent homebrew software.

It's not like GPH had blatantly refused to ever offer the source. The GP2X is a complicated bit of hardware that is still in development by very small company. It's unlikely that GPH has the man-hours to dedicate to prep the source for release every time there is a minor bugfix. The official GPH message board states that they will release the source when it's finished. If that's not good enough, then you're just a crybaby.

 

[DijiTao]

compliance is the goal (and it is) and this isn’t about money or punishment, then who in there right mind would fight what is obviously a loosing legal case and not just comply. If Dignsys is at fault, Dignsys will comply. I really think it’s that simple.

​

You are assuming intelligence, logic, and common sense. So far GPH or Dignsys has displayed none of those

​

Point well taken - just look at the joystick... btw, I would buy a cap from you but I've decided not to spend any more money on my GP2X util the GPL crap gets resolved.

All we would need is a patchset against the official Linux 2.4.25 sources. It would be a matter of minutes to run 'diff' on the sources and upload it to source.gp2x.de.

My suspicion for the delay is that they haven't played by the rules, and have intermingled GPL and proprietary source without isolating the proprietary parts into modules that can be released in a binary-only format. (THIS IS PURELY SPECULATION ON MY PART, NOT AN ACCUSATION.)

​

Very reasonable speculation. It seems to be the only sane reason we've got to the point where we are. If that is the case, I don't really care - as long as they fix it.

Wow, seven pages of ranting, speculation, and mud slinging over a complete non-issue. I always thought of myself as a GPL supporter, but now I'm not so sure.

There are maybe eight people on this board who would actually benefit from firmware source code, and none of them are complaining. It it really a shame that any good will there may have been between GPH, it's western distributors, and the community has been shot to shit just because certain "caring individuals" live to complain.

Anybody who just found out about this "situation" in the last few days from slashdot or the GPL community obviously doesn't have a GP2X. It's really none of their concern. I wonder if they know that their "helpfulness" has alienated the only handheld hardware manufacturer that doesn't go out of their way to prevent homebrew software.

It's not like GPH had blatantly refused to ever offer the source. The GP2X is a complicated bit of hardware that is still in development by very small company. It's unlikely that GPH has the man-hours to dedicate to prep the source for release every time there is a minor bugfix. The official GPH message board states that they will release the source when it's finished. If that's not good enough, then you're just a crybaby.

​

I really don't see this as a non-issue. It is a consern for people outside the GP2X community as some of them have had their IP stolen. The amount of work to make a source release (if you've played by the rules) is absolutly minimal. If the source is ready enough to make a binary release, it's ready enough to make a source release. I don't think anybody is really asking for anything more or less than from this point forward every time GPH makes a binary firmware release, they also make a source release.

 

[abigsmurf]

Wow, seven pages of ranting, speculation, and mud slinging over a complete non-issue.  I always thought of myself as a GPL supporter, but now I'm not so sure.

​

That's what happened to me (kinda). I used to love GPL but reading slashdot for a while and topics like this have turned me against it. It's just the frenzied response that it seems to get.

Makes me wish things would go back to the days where homebrew was "free for non-commercial use, email me if you want it" . To me GPL eliminates a large amount of the charity element you used to get with open/free code.

 

[thelamer]

I bet they hold out as long as possible . All that can happen is that they get more and more free publicity .

 

[racoon]

There are maybe eight people on this board who would actually benefit from firmware source code, and none of them are complaining.

​

I don't really get what you are talking about? Everyone owning a gp2x would benefit simply because open2X would get released and we would have a much better and faster evolving firmware?

 

[BBTroll]

My suspicion for the delay is that they haven't played by the rules, and have intermingled GPL and proprietary source without isolating the proprietary parts into modules that can be released in a binary-only format. (THIS IS PURELY SPECULATION ON MY PART, NOT AN ACCUSATION.)

​

They wouldn't be THAT stupid? Or would they?

*cough*

grep -r -i prop  drivers/mmcsd/*
gp2x/linux-gp2x/drivers/mmcsd/mmcsd_bus.c:MODULE_LICENSE("Not GPL, Proprietary License");
gp2x/linux-gp2x/drivers/mmcsd/mmcsd_disk.c:MODULE_LICENSE("Not GPL, Proprietary License");
gp2x/linux-gp2x/drivers/mmcsd/mmcsd_slot_mmsp2.c:MODULE_LICENSE("Not GPL, Proprietary License");

*cough*

 

[Winterkid]

DigiTao, about being lied to, sorry to be a downer, but chances are, you've been lied to at least 2 or 3 times in some way in the last week, at some point. The human race as a whole isn't the most honest.

I think saying the IP of the GPL has been "stolen" is a bit strong. When something is stolen, it's taken without permission. The GPL itself gives it's consent from what I understand, but not all the conditions have been met. If anything, the IP you're talking about has been "borrowed" and just not "returned" in good condition.

As for DaveC, I really hope your theory about GPH going under from legal action is just a negative reaction to all the hatred in this thread. Cause I love my GP2X and I'd hate to have to depend only on 3rd parties for firmware. As it stands, the current firmware does play a lot of titles, and Devs seem to keep cranking out all the new titles and ports for us to enjoy, so we have that to enjoy while we wait for the source.

 

[Mr.Jabberwocky]

ps – stop being a fucktard.

​

Smooth. Nothing like a bit of name calling to add weight to a viewpoint.

Despite not being a copyright holder my rights have still been violated. I was falsely advertised too. It may not have meant much to you, but to me the marketing bullet points of Open Source, GPL, and GNU/Linux were major selling points. It was one of the primary reasons I bought the device in the first place. Before anybody even ask, no I don’t want a damn refund. I’ve bought 4 AA NiMH batteries for this damn thing, a high end battery charger, a 2gb SD card, a TV-Out cable, and a screen protector all of which I have no use for besides my GP2X. Getting my money back for the console still screws me out of quite a bit of money for those accessories. For me there is only one satisfactory solution the problem, GPL compliance.

​

Two questions :

Since GPL was a major selling point for you, why didn't you return it for a refund as soon as you recieved it and saw it failed to meet one or other of the relevant conditions before investing further in it ?

Given the moral high ground you are arguing from, how can the cost of a few bits and pieces outweigh the lofty principal you have been so mouthy about ?

Act on your convictions, send it back tomorrow. You know you will sleep better.

 

[Chip]

I really don't see this as a non-issue. It is a consern for people outside the GP2X community as some of them have had their IP stolen. The amount of work to make a source release (if you've played by the rules) is absolutly minimal. If the source is ready enough to make a binary release, it's ready enough to make a source release. I don't think anybody is really asking for anything more or less than from this point forward every time GPH makes a binary firmware release, they also make a source release.

​

Nobody's IP was "stolen". How do you steal something that is being given away? It's not like they ripped off commercial software and started selling it as their own. It's not even like they took free software and said they're keeping their extensive modifications secret forever. It's indignant, chest-thumping reactionism like this that turns people off to the GPL ideal. Yes, the GPL is a good idea, and it has rules for a reason. But the mature and rational approach to this whole thing would have been to give them time to create a stable final product to release, which was their stated intention from the beginning.

At the absolute worst, GPH is guilty of borrowing with intent to return. Even that's a bit of a stretch, since this is FREE software we're talking about.

What angers me the most is how Craigx, DJWillis, and other "inside" folks have been treated. These are people who work their asses off for the love of open hardware. Sure, Craigx sells the things, but I'm sure he's not getting rich from it. It's really disheartening to have good guys like this shat upon by people who know nothing more about the situation than what they read in two misleading paragraphs on slashdot.

I've said my piece about how poorly certain members of a "caring and friendly" community have handled this. I'll stop ranting now.

There are maybe eight people on this board who would actually benefit from firmware source code, and none of them are complaining.

​

I don't really get what you are talking about? Everyone owning a gp2x would benefit simply because open2X would get released and we would have a much better and faster evolving firmware?

​

What I mean is that there are maybe 8 hardcore developers that would either use the information in the code to create better apps, or modify the code to create new and better firmware.

Those screaming loudest about how GPH MUST release it NOW have no intention of using it or even downloading it. You are right though, in the end we will all benefit.

 

[icurafu]

I imagine they would be removing as much propriety code as possible before any source release.

​

If the last source release was anything to go by, I don't think that spend that long removing proprietary stuff. As in for example, they ripped out the DRM directory completely, obviously thinking it was something to do with Digital Rights Management, when it actually contains no more than the Direct Rendering Manager

Saying that though, I've seen other companies release kernels with the same mistake - must be something to do with the people releasing the source having no actual involvement with the source itself, so they guess at what to remove or something like that?

​

haha, that's funny in sad kind of way.

I was in a situation like that once. Having to hand over source because of a trade agreement with the states.

So I was given a week to remove all confidentual information for 8 million lines of C code writing in the late 80s.

It was a few months late in the end, and I'm sure they never even compiled it anyway.

I hope this doesn't become a few months late.