Gp2x - What I Think

[Phil]

What? People, The video playback is marvelous.

I've watched the whole series of Samurai Champloo on it, movies and countless other things, I sometimes put one of my fav albums on it if I want music.

I love the movie playback. Very watchable.

Although, the control stick does suck ass.

 

[DaveC]

We must be vigilant not to be 'fanboys' -- those who praise only, without critcizing.. ie: without being honest.

ie: The PSP is a great piece of hardware, but a fanboy ignores the fact it would've been better on SD rather than memstick, or that it would be better-still with a second analog, or no-Sony-bullshit towards homebrew, etc. So those who wank the PSP without being honest about it.. are fanboys.

Likewise, those who wank the gp2x without beinmg honest do a dis-service to the gp2x community -- ie: too many people will say 'buy the gp32 or gp2x always! it is th ebest!' are possibly scfrewing people, since they're providing the wrong info. It is always best to be honest, to provide the facts, so someone can decide properly if it is for them.

Thats why I joined this discussion.. we need to not flame people .. but to discuss honestly

(ie: This applies to XBox 360 fanboys, PS3 fanboys, etc etc.)

jeff

/me passes on the ironic opportunity to pee on the Amiga and praise the ST

​

I could not understand though how someone can say the Amiga is(was) not as good as the ST. They have a little dig at LGD and in the end say that the Amiga is good although not as good as the ST. That is wrong though. They should say that they may LIKE the ST better (many times because it was cheaper) but it is not better. The Amiga has a larger palette of colors, displays MORE (double) on the screen in every mode that the ST has plus it has more modes (the interlace modes), and has better animation capabilities. And the "sound" ...well doesn't the ST use the same chip as the Speccy or something? The sound on the Amiga completely blows away the ST, you would have to be deaf to not hear the difference. Hardware wise it isn't close the Amiga was far better (hence why it is so much harder to emulate) but again I guess it doesn't matter always about hardware. I still like the ST, just not as much as the L337 Amiga At this point the ST is like "Amiga CE" (Close Enough)

The TRUE Atari fanboiz like the Amiga since it was designed by the same crew that gave you the Atari 8-bit (400/800 etc), and the Lynx. The ST ironically was brought to you by the same crew that brought out the arch rival to the Atari 800, the C64. The irony.

Which comes back to the GP2X. The hardware is certainly not as good as a PSP but you could say you like it better because of the scene etc.

 

[Phil]

Which comes back to the GP2X. The hardware is certainly not as good as a PSP but you could say you like it better because of the scene etc.

​

Better for Emulation though, the megadrive emu on the PSP is laughable compared to the Gp32/Gp2x. Same with Snes, actually pretty much any emu.

But for 3d PSP blows it out of the water, but thats not th reason we bought one now is it? Although it may surprise us...(not bloody likely)

 

[DaveC]

Which comes back to the GP2X.  The hardware is certainly not as good as a PSP but you could say you like it better because of the scene etc.

​

Better for Emulation though, the megadrive emu on the PSP is laughable compared to the Gp32/Gp2x. Same with Snes, actually pretty much any emu.

But for 3d PSP blows it out of the water, but thats not th reason we bought one now is it? Although it may surprise us...(not bloody likely)

​

SNES? SNES is far better on the PSP. SNES on the PSP has full sound, transparencies and is full speed on many games. It barely runs on the GP2X now and is not worthwhile because it doesn't do sound and transparencies. This may change but for now the best SNES is on PSP.

 

[skeezix]

I could not understand though how someone can say the Amiga is(was) not as good as the ST. They have a little dig at LGD and in the end say that the Amiga is good although not as good as the ST. That is wrong though. They should say that they

*g* Caught you

I wasn't being serious; given the topic of my post, it was mere irony and a trap to see if anyone would bite

jeff

 

[DaveC]

I could not understand though how someone can say the Amiga is(was) not as good as the ST.  They have a little dig at LGD and in the end say that the Amiga is good although not as good as the ST.  That is wrong though.  They should say that they

*g* Caught you

I wasn't being serious; given the topic of my post, it was mere irony and a trap to see if anyone would bite

jeff

​

Doh!

You hooked a fanboi

 

[skeezix]

The ST-versus-Amiga war can never triuly end, until our generation gives up Like that'll happen

jeff

 

[gaterooze]

SNES? SNES is far better on the PSP. SNES on the PSP has full sound, transparencies and is full speed on many games. It barely runs on the GP2X now and is not worthwhile because it doesn't do sound and transparencies. This may change but for now the best SNES is on PSP.

​

Considering Squidge's SNES has only been out a week or so I'd say it's well on track to surpassing the PSP.

Why is it not worthwhile without sound or transparencies? Many games don't use transparency at all, and sound really isn't a big deal on a handheld (I usually turn my GBA's sound off).

YOU may not enjoy playing it, but I think it's a bit rude to these hard working devs to say it's not worthwhile -- a lot of people are enjoying it already!

 

[Radek]

We must be vigilant not to be 'fanboys' -- those who praise only, without critcizing.. ie: without being honest.

ie: The PSP is a great piece of hardware, but a fanboy ignores the fact it would've been better on SD rather than memstick, or that it would be better-still with a second analog, or no-Sony-bullshit towards homebrew, etc. So those who wank the PSP without being honest about it.. are fanboys.

Likewise, those who wank the gp2x without beinmg honest do a dis-service to the gp2x community -- ie: too many people will say 'buy the gp32 or gp2x always! it is th ebest!' are possibly scfrewing people, since they're providing the wrong info. It is always best to be honest, to provide the facts, so someone can decide properly if it is for them.

Thats why I joined this discussion.. we need to not flame people .. but to discuss honestly

(ie: This applies to XBox 360 fanboys, PS3 fanboys, etc etc.)

jeff

/me passes on the ironic opportunity to pee on the Amiga and praise the ST

​

I could not understand though how someone can say the Amiga is(was) not as good as the ST. They have a little dig at LGD and in the end say that the Amiga is good although not as good as the ST. That is wrong though. They should say that they may LIKE the ST better (many times because it was cheaper) but it is not better. The Amiga has a larger palette of colors, displays MORE (double) on the screen in every mode that the ST has plus it has more modes (the interlace modes)

I know specs of these machine very well and Amiga was superior to ST. But it wasn't anything special because at same times were others machines much better than the Amiga (X68000 for an example). Yet I was hearing much "blabla" from so called "Amigoids" how this failed console chipset was "revolutionary".

And for an interlacing... please explain this.

edit: A500 has up to 6 bitplanes (5 - 32 colours, 6 - 64 colours "halfbrite mode") and A1200 extended this to 8 (so 256 colours available just like in the VGA). But with so small memory bandwidth using them were slow.

, and has better animation capabilities. And the "sound" ...well doesn't the ST use the same chip as the Speccy or something? The sound on the Amiga completely

It using the Yamaha's clone of GeneralInstruments' AY-3-8910. It was used because it was cheap and added some i/o capabilities. At its time it wasn't so bad and certainly can do some nice music, sound FX as many ST's titles shows. But of course there isn't point about ST "being" better than Amiga. Except for some things (70Hz for mono modes, midi and somewhat faster cpu) it wasn't.

blows away the ST, you would have to be deaf to not hear the difference.

Yes but Amiga sound capabilities weren't that great either- you have only two stereo channels really. Samples are giving advantage but still you could use software mixing on ST and many titles were using the same mods files for games' menus and had some sample based effect in games.

Hardware wise it isn't close the Amiga was far better (hence why it is so much harder to emulate) but again I guess it doesn't matter always about hardware. I still

It's hard to emulate because most of software were abusing the hardware. It's very hard to do proper emulation if you have to deal with cycle dependent code. Amiga with its multiple custom chips was making this only worse. Even on ST there are some titles what are having problems with emulators. The Spectrum512 and "SyncScrolling" is a prime example of this.

You can find such software on any platform.

like the ST, just not as much as the L337 Amiga At this point the ST is like "Amiga CE" (Close Enough)

ST was developed hastily when Tramiel just lost (by his greed) the Amiga licence. Atari had to develop something very quickly. In this light the ST was big success especially having in a mind how many resources were spend on it when comparing to an Amiga (much less time). It was valid concept of inexpensive personal computer but unfortunatelly Atari screwed royally when making the succesors. Both STe and Falcon were misconceptions imho because the first lacked any of important features (the more bits per pixel and more powerfull cpu) when the second has features to narrow and was too expensive. The A1200 was much better conceptually (better "bang for the bucks") than the ambitious Falcon and STe was a joke.

The TRUE Atari fanboiz like the Amiga since it was designed by the same crew that gave you the Atari 8-bit (400/800 etc), and the Lynx. The ST ironically was brought to you by the same crew that brought out the arch rival to the Atari 800, the C64. The irony.

I had the Atari800 based computer (the "65XE") and now I'm not sure if I wouldn't be better with the ZX Spectrum. XE was pretty impressive machine technically but software support was subpar...

The Amiga has similar "feel" to the 8 bit Atari, indeed.

Which comes back to the GP2X. The hardware is certainly not as good as a PSP but you could say you like it better because of the scene etc.

​

Gp2x is as good (or better) for video capabilities, memory size and has similiar power for cpus. The PSP only advantage is its 3d accelerator.

And keep in a mind the gp2x is using a common chipset where the PSP has one designed specifically for it. For GPH 8000 of units sold (as now) is a big deal where for Sony it'd mean a flop.

"3D" will slowly (but steady) shows in the others handheld, PDAs and even phones. There are superior technologies in a market already than ones to be found in the PSP. Even Sony recognized this and for PSX3 is using graphics accelerator made from someone else.

 

[Paradox]

why are people still comparing the 2X to a DS or PSP? seriously, what the fuck? shut up already.

 

[moz]

The ST-versus-Amiga war can never triuly end, until our generation gives up Like that'll happen

jeff

​

i know which side of the fence im sitting (paula ownz)

 

[racoon]

Ok, I am sorry I didn't read through the whole thread cause I need some sleep ;D, BUT :

I would never ever think about selling my GP2X now, because:

As you can see: ITS BUGGY!!!!!!

and as you can see: IT GET'S BETTER EVERYDAY!

and you can conclude: IT WON'T STOP GETTING BETTER !

and then you see: SOURCE GETS RELEASED THIS WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!

the final conclusion is: Have some more months patience and you will see how all these PSP fanboys are going to envy you cause you payed FAR LESS money, honestly you will probably never play PSP-3D style games, BUT you will be able to do almost everything else you can imagine

Hmm, these psp fanboys spend 100$ to void warranty and get a tv-out, I pay 10€ and (as it seems) the community builds me a USBHOST/JTAG/TVOUT cable, so what's the better deal?

 

[GeminiDomino]

I have to wonder whether it will really ever be any good for gaming. Unfortunately, the biggest Issue with the unit, IMO, is one that can't be fixed with software. The joystick is utter crap. And I'm not talking about the cap that can be pulled off and replaced with a retroCon stick or one of DaveCs replacements. The actual circuit itself down inside the unit is crap.

While the situation is slightly improved by developers (at least homebrew devs) taking it into account and using different coding schemes, the core problem is that you're still hitting diagonals when you want to be hitting ordinals. To code around this, it seems that you have to lose the ability to hit diagonals altogether (by registering the diagonals as extensions of the ordinals). Some of the worst-cases don't seem to map the diagonals at all, leaving gaping dead zones in the majority of the joystick range (the diagonals actually hold a greater percentage of the "hit range" than the ordinals).

Even the test application displays the issue. Whether it's how the test app was coded, or a shortcoming of the joystick hardware, it doesn't seem to be possible to hit two of the switches at once. (If anyone has a clarification on this, I'm all ears)

This is the biggest problem I've seen, and it can't be written off as a software problem.

 

[Radek]

I have to wonder whether it will really ever be any good for gaming. Unfortunately, the biggest Issue with the unit, IMO, is one that can't be fixed with software. The joystick is utter crap. And I'm not talking
about the cap that can be pulled off and replaced with a retroCon stick or one of DaveCs replacements. The actual circuit itself down inside the unit is crap.

The original cap is simply bad. Replacing it will not fix all issues with stick but it's an improvement.

While the situation is slightly improved by developers (at least homebrew devs) taking it into account and using different coding schemes, the core problem is that you're still hitting diagonals when you want to be hitting ordinals. To code around this, it seems that you have to lose the ability to hit diagonals altogether (by registering the diagonals as extensions of the ordinals). Some of the worst-cases don't seem to map the diagonals at all, leaving gaping dead zones in the majority of the joystick range (the diagonals actually hold a greater percentage of the "hit range" than the ordinals).

For some aplication case "5" of DaveC's biasing schemes will be ideal. Nebulus for an example isn't using diagonals at all. Many other games too.

Even the test application displays the issue. Whether it's how the test app was coded, or a shortcoming of the joystick hardware, it doesn't seem to be possible to hit two of the switches at once. (If anyone has a clarification on this, I'm all ears)

???

On my unit I can register two switches. They are very narrow but it is possible. Both t-mode and joytest are showing that.

At any angle something gets registered with this stick. There is no deadzone, at least I could not register nothing.

There were few topics about this stick's menace already. Conclusion was that the gp2x's stick should be rotated by 45 degress so bias could be for ordinals instead diagonals. The other opinion was it will never be like a dpad but its handling can be improved by software biasing. Full fix will need a hardware modification and this was also discussed with some developments.

 

[GeminiDomino]

I have to wonder whether it will really ever be any good for gaming. Unfortunately, the biggest Issue with the unit, IMO, is one that can't be fixed with software. The joystick is utter crap. And I'm not talking
about the cap that can be pulled off and replaced with a retroCon stick or one of DaveCs replacements. The actual circuit itself down inside the unit is crap.

The original cap is simply bad. Replacing it will not fix all issues with stick but it's an improvement.

Agreed, it's bad. But it doesn't have anything to do with the deeper problem I mentioned.

While the situation is slightly improved by developers (at least homebrew devs) taking it into account and using different coding schemes, the core problem is that you're still hitting diagonals when you want to be hitting ordinals. To code around this, it seems that you have to lose the ability to hit diagonals altogether (by registering the diagonals as extensions of the ordinals). Some of the worst-cases don't seem to map the diagonals at all, leaving gaping dead zones in the majority of the joystick range (the diagonals actually hold a greater percentage of the "hit range" than the ordinals).

For some aplication case "5" of DaveC's biasing schemes will be ideal. Nebulus for an example isn't using diagonals at all. Many other games too.

Yes, for some. But case "5" is the one that removes diagonals altogether. It might be good for some games, but for shooters and emu, it's hardly ideal. Unfortunately, I can't think of any fix.

Even the test application displays the issue. Whether it's how the test app was coded, or a shortcoming of the joystick hardware, it doesn't seem to be possible to hit two of the switches at once. (If anyone has a clarification on this, I'm all ears)

???

On my unit I can register two switches. They are very narrow but it is possible. Both t-mode and joytest are showing that.

At any angle something gets registered with this stick. There is no deadzone, at least I could not register nothing.

I get some flicker between switches. I think that's part of what a new stick could fix. As for there being no deadzone, I was referring to games which only seem to map the oridnals, not the test-mode. Also, there's an internal zone where the stick is tilted, but not hitting the switch, that is a bit too deep to allow for a lot of the finer-grained control that platformers (e.g. Mega Man 2) need.

There were few topics about this stick's menace already. Conclusion was that the gp2x's stick should be rotated by 45 degress so bias could be for ordinals instead diagonals.

This I agree with. But it's also largely impossible to do without disassembling the unit to component levels, re-cutting the shell, etc.

The other opinion was it will never be like a dpad but its handling can be improved by software biasing. Full fix will need a hardware modification and this was also discussed with some developments.

That I disagree with. Software biasing will, at best, give you trade-offs, such as the one you mentioned about not using diagonals at all, and hardware replacement of it, while impractical, is really the only fixed. The joystick hardware used is simply junk.

 

[ibex333]

What you guys said about the joystick makes me very sad. This means I'll never be able to play games like Street Fighter, KOF, or Mortal Kombat on my GP2X. And these games + the SEGA emulator was the main reason why I got this thing in the first place.

 

[gaterooze]

It's strange that many people play games perfectly on their GP2X (often after replacing the cap). I'm wondering why the discrepancy? Are some units better than others, or do some users have a lower tolerance/dexterity?

 

[Iorgy77]

Bah!! the joystick is fine for streetfighter etc.. I have gotten used to mine and can do perfect left, right, diagonals and fireballs in SFII etc...

If you can't get used to it sell it and quit your crying.

 

[Cyclops]

I have to wonder whether it will really ever be any good for gaming. Unfortunately, the biggest Issue with the unit, IMO, is one that can't be fixed with software. The joystick is utter crap. And I'm not talking about the cap that can be pulled off and replaced with a retroCon stick or one of DaveCs replacements. The actual circuit itself down inside the unit is crap.

While the situation is slightly improved by developers (at least homebrew devs) taking it into account and using different coding schemes, the core problem is that you're still hitting diagonals when you want to be hitting ordinals. To code around this, it seems that you have to lose the ability to hit diagonals altogether (by registering the diagonals as extensions of the ordinals). Some of the worst-cases don't seem to map the diagonals at all, leaving gaping dead zones in the majority of the joystick range (the diagonals actually hold a greater percentage of the "hit range" than the ordinals).

Even the test application displays the issue. Whether it's how the test app was coded, or a shortcoming of the joystick hardware, it doesn't seem to be possible to hit two of the switches at once. (If anyone has a clarification on this, I'm all ears)

This is the biggest problem I've seen, and it can't be written off as a software problem.

​

Clearly you've not understood DaveC's noncence it a boring 100% even 8-way joystick(like the streetfighter one in the arcade no less), Its a little tall and could benefit from being concave. See the million posts regarding 8-way 4-way joysticks in mame on the web.

 

[Muncher666]

Bah!! the joystick is fine for streetfighter etc.. I have gotten used to mine and can do perfect left, right, diagonals and fireballs in SFII etc...

If you can't get used to it sell it and quit your crying.

​

Amen to that, brother. I've beaten Kof'94 and Street Fighter II - I'm sure I can handle anything else it throws at me.

Allan.