Gp2x Possible Replacement?

[palmertech]

Hi! I am currently keeping in touch with the makers of a certain blackfin pmp device! They are Chinese, and not so good at English, so I will paraphrase what they ask:

"How interest is there from the US and UK distributor of the GP2X former in stocking our pmp if made open source?

Would there be interest from the devs that we just select? As in, not open source, but shared source to select few?

We warn that dev is harder than expected on blackfin, not as easy, and requires much extra dev software and time, as licensing is hard to do."

This is what the customer service dep. forwarded to me from the software engineers when I asked about source.

The device has 64mb of RAM, SDHC support, tv out at 720x567, a 3:4 ratio LTPS screen, 3" (Not clear on res), and 533mhz ADI blackfin core. These are just the basic specs for the new machine they are making, I could possibly get better ones.

If they do decide to make it open source, who would buy it? Not much to go on now, but they say it will cost about $150 USD. They will possibly make a slightly more expensive one with 2gb internal memory.

More info as I get it.

 

[grahf]

The screen is the deal closer (or breaker) for me. My GP2X with its 320x240 screen really hits the nail on the head for classic emulation. I think that $99-150 is the sweet spot for a device like this. Keep us updated.

 

[palmertech]

New update: The tvout is via standard composite, the screen is 320x240 at 3", 2200mah cell, 22 hours of audio, 6 gours video at max supported res, and 5 hours running full speed cpu test.

Ah, this was moved. Good call, I am very tired, did not think hard enough about posting. Although, I think that because the GP2X is dead, this was relevant enough for gp2x general....Oh well.

 

[Orkie]

The GP2X isn't dead, it is just in between models currently and the next one is looking like it will be quite good.

 

[DaveC]

The GP2X isn't dead, it is just in between models currently and the next one is looking like it will be quite good.

The GP2X is dead (not GPH) since it is not made anymore and the other Pollux handheld has 0% backwards compatibility. That means dead as in no more GP2X or compatible hardware will be made.

Since the GPH one uses a different cpu everything would have to be re-written anyway so there is no advantage in it other than poor quality 3D that can be done better on a PSP.

Might as well support the blackfin or any other Chinese PMP now. The only thing that sucks about all of these things is that they all use tiny screens. Kind of going backwards, I don't want a *smaller* screen that is just stupid.

 

[Orkie]

Actually, that is not quite true. Anything dynamically linked should can be run on the new system, and although there isn't a huge amount of that kind of stuff right now, all it will take for nearly all GP2X applications is to remove "-static" from the Makefile and it will 'just work'. The CPU is an ARM926, which is basically the same as a 920 anyway.

You really should stop moaning about the system when you really know very little about it .

 

[Quiest]

Definately what Orkie said, and believe me, he knows what he's talking about.
You should just shut up, DaveC,
as you really dont (and never have or will) know what you are talking about.

 

[waffles]

sounds nice, the biggest determining factor for me would be the actual housing of the device, ie wether its cheap looking/feeling or a nice heavy ABS plastic or metal, and the number of emulators available.
but that's definitely interesting.

 

[DJWillis]

The GP2X is dead (not GPH) since it is not made anymore and the other Pollux handheld has 0% backwards compatibility. That means dead as in no more GP2X or compatible hardware will be made.

As mentioned before that is not 100% true, our need to static link is what bites us in this regard.

The Pollux is not a bad SoC at all, it maybe not in the same league as the OMAP3 but it is a decent ARM9 core none the less and has its friends on the SoC such as the old VRender and the usual blitter, scaler etc. we know from the MMSP2(+)/GP2X. It lacks the 94* core of it's MMSP2* brothers but then it also does not have the massive bottleneck on accessing memory with that second core .

If GPH can keep the cost down and quality up there with the F200's (build wise) you may well have 2 complementary markets, Pandora for the high end and there new thing for the lower end. I for one am certainly very interested and keen to hack on both. You can never have enough things to mess about with .

As for the Blackfin device in the OP. If the company making it can keep it on the market for more then a few months and are nice and public with the OSS support (to get people on board) it sounds very interesting, hacking on Blackfin is a fair bit of fun but I have a feeling being non-ARM it will be more marginal for the simple fact that quick (but ARM optemised) ports are off the agenda.

 

[DisgruntleElf]

The GP2X isn't dead, it is just in between models currently and the next one is looking like it will be quite good.

Orkie, since palmertech is in contact with a PMP manufacturer perhaps this could be your opportunity to get any files that you need to complete your libraries for homebrew on the blackfin devices. You've put so much work into this and I really hope you can finish it.

 

[Firefox]

Interesting news!

I love the Pandora, but I still think there's room for a JXD301-like device that's cheap and compact to compliment it. I'd probably use my actual JXD301 if the firmware wasn't such a PITA...

 

[Orkie]

Orkie, since palmertech is in contact with a PMP manufacturer perhaps this could be your opportunity to get any files that you need to complete your libraries for homebrew on the blackfin devices. You've put so much work into this and I really hope you can finish it.

Good point, if they can supply us with NAND and SD libraries (maybe even sound too), there is no reason why homebrew couldn't go ahead on the JXD finally. COuld you ask about that palmertech?

 

[palmertech]

Orkie, that is what I am working on doing. Hopefull, they can get back to me on this soon. I do not have direct contact with the engineers, I am being routed from the main department, but they say that if they agree to it, I may be given some more direct contact info.

Apparently, there is a bit of division between the company, some want to market it as a PMP, others actually see the potential here. This is actually an update to an existing device, I am told that they would prefer not to make a bad reputation by speculation on the PMP in case they do not make it open cource. I dont get it, there are HUNDREDS of these generic players, and they all just want to be some lame media player, not anything special. And when they do make something, they never support it for more than a few months. I think that these people might be different, considering that they actually respond to questions in any positive, non machine way!

Out of curiosity, how much work does it take to port a blackfin app from one of the older cores to the new ones, and vice versa? I hate to say it, but they probably do not want to allow homebrew on other systems that was made for their device. If you could, they could very possibly have a new competitor come out (Or hundreds). That would be fantastic for prices, as well as the community, but not so much for their business model.

I should really get a JXD, if anyone wants to sell a cheap one... I am probably getting a test unit for this new PMP (Not free, I am paying for it... No profit for them though, just cost). They can do this cheaply because the board is used in one of their current products, the new model is really just a recasing. I told them how much people hated a lot of these PMP dpads, and that though good for multimedia, gaming is shit on them. They were very surprised by this, and asked me to try any ideas I have on a better dpad! I am probably going to mash this thing into a modded gb pocket (Not for the case really, but for the dpad).

I will update as info becomes available!

 

[Orkie]

Well they are already going to be disappointed there, we have everything required to run a simple homebrew game on BF533 devices anyway, all we are missing is SD, NAND and sound (they are only a matter of time really but my complete lack of a parallel port right now doesn't help since I can't use my BlackFin JTAG adapter; if somebody feels like sending me an ExpressCard parallel port, feel free!).

EDIT: And all the BlackFin specs are available for free anyway, so it is just a case of remapping the registers to new locations for the later cores. For example, the only difference between BF531 and BF533 is the location where execution begins and the clock speed. Most of these media players are built from the same schematic too, so have all the same hardware for controls, sound etc.

 

[chad78]

*attack on DaveC's knowledge*
DaveC is a certified Guru, just like you and Orkie. How can you say he doesn't know anything?

----- *back on topic* -----

Just to put all the stats in one place, for my own benefit if no one else's.

• 320x240 3" LTPS screen at 3:4 ratio
• TV out at 720 x 567
• 533Mhz ADI Blackfin CPU
• 64MB RAM
• SDHC support
• 2200Mah Battery (22 hrs audio / 6 hours video / 5 hours full CPU)
• Up to 2GB internal storage
• Starts at $150
• Open source or dev-only source

Hmmm... My question would be, what benefit does it have over a modded PSP Slim? The PSP cost about as much, has a better (IMHO) screen, WiFi, and commerical support. I know people on here get tired of me saying that - but people on Linux forums get tired of people pointing out the obvious truth that just becuase it's free doesn't make it better, in the real fallen world, Windows is just as free (as in cost) to most users as Linux is. And, to most users, having to mod the PSP to make it open doesn't make it any less open than a device that comes pre-jail-broken, just one less step to take. True, there are some people that can't/won't mod their PSP - but those people don't shop at GP** stores. Why stand true to the EULA of one game system (the PSP) but not others (any and all of the game systems you emulate)? It's a dumb argument, (to say this is better because it's OPEN and the PSP is closed!) -- Especially considering this device is not yet open, and this is just a balloon testing to see if opening it would make it more valuable.

I would say opening it would make it more valuable, because more devs would work on it, but it wouldn't (to me) make it more valuable than my PSP - unless there is something that I'm missing.

The price would have to come down (say to $99) - and/or it would have to at least add WiFi. Adding a camera, BlueTooth, GPS, touch screen... All those things would help. But it's still hard to justifiy this over a PSP at the same price point.

 

[Orkie]

DaveC is a certified Guru, just like you and Orkie. How can you say he doesn't know anything?

Like this: DaveC knows nothing. You haven't been around long enough to realise this because up until recently it seemed like DaveC had been trying to keep out of arguments; maybe he was just busy for a while...

 

[Firefox]

Orkie, did you ever find out what the mystery sanded chip in a JXD is?

 

[palmertech]

I believe that the biggest advantage this has over a modded psp is the SIZE! It has a SUPER bright LTPS screen, but the body of it is smaller than the bottom part of a DS Lite! Also, the screen has a much higher DPI than the PSP screen, not to mention the blurring (Which is not really as bad as people make it out to be). A nicer dapd than the one in the psp would help, also. And though the PSP has tv out, it is limited in a lot of ways (Native PSP res only, games are component only, etc.). It also uses a Wolfson audio chip, the same that is used in many ipod models, which would give it much better sound quality. So, much better screen, smaller size, uses standard SDHC card (Currently at 16gb support, 32gb should be no problem), possibly better dpad, better tv out, possibly better than the PSP for some apps (PSP is powerful, but there are potentially a few bits that this pmp has an edge over it, performance wise) has standard USB charging (Also in psp slim, I believe) and WAY more codec support (AVI, RMVB, FLV, WMV, a lot of others.) PSP has its own attributes, for sure, but there are definitely good things about this PMP. Oh, it has a microphone as well.

I stated that they are considering a version with 2gb internal, but there is no reason that they would not release one with more. Same thing with the JXD 301, a 2gb and a 4gb model. And by starting price is not the "base price" it is a "launch price", which is likely to come down over time.

Also, I COMPLETLY agree with Chad on the fact that just because you have to mod a PSP, it does not make it an inferior device, and that it is the final result that matters. Yes, I know that some people are not good at this kind of stuff, but for me, the PSP is an EXCELLENT device. I saw the problems: Not open, crappy dpad, bad battery life, and the heavyness. To solve this, I put custom firmware on it, replaced the dpad with an SNES one (Ok, so that takes more skill than the average computer user) and to solve the weight and battery issues, I ripped out the UMD drive and put a 9000mah li-ion cell there (40+ hours of battery FTW!). So it had a lot of problems before, but now, it works fine.

Orkie, the core is a BF400 running at 533mhz with stable OC to 600mhz. What do you think of this?

I am also curious about the sanded JXD chip. Do you have any info on the JXD 652? It looks like a JXD 301 with some extra features, so I am very interested in it if it uses the same core.

 

[DaveC]

I believe that the biggest advantage this has over a modded psp is the SIZE! It has a SUPER bright LTPS screen, but the body of it is smaller than the bottom part of a DS Lite! Also, the screen has a much higher DPI than the PSP screen, not to mention the blurring (Which is not really as bad as people make it out to be).

I just don't know why everyone insists on putting in these little tiny screens though! 3" That SUCKS! It is too fucking small, even the GP2X 3.5" screen is borderline but god we are going BACKWARDS! At least the PSP has a decent sized screen. They should put in at LEAST a 3.5" screen, is it that hard?

Definately what Orkie said, and believe me, he knows what he's talking about.
You should just shut up, DaveC,
as you really dont (and never have or will) know what you are talking about.

Why should I believe you? Who the hell are you? You make a few shitty games and now you suddenly have the authority to tell me to shut up?

And no, I won't shut up. Maybe I know more about things going on than you think.

 

[palmertech]

The reason that they cannot put in a 3.5 screen is twofold. First, 320x240 screens are hard to come by in the land of super bright LTPS screens. Second is the DPI. Though the screen is small, the high DPI makes it look fantastic, which is important for a movie player. I would love a bigger screen, but the likelyhood of that happening is small. However, we do have excellent tv out! Something the GP2X was lacking in.