Few Games! Why?

[fargo]

Only few games have been developed for GP2X and I'm wondering why? Is it because of SDL being difficult? The console does support OpenGL? Is it very slow and weak? Maybe there is no big customer base to attract developers? GPH has not done its job maybe?!

What do you think?

 

[mrben]

Only few games have been developed for GP2X and I'm wondering why? Is it because of SDL being difficult? The console does support OpenGL? Is it very slow and weak? Maybe there is no big customer base to attract developers? GPH has not done its job maybe?!

What do you think?

I think that GPH never intended for the GP2X to be a major commercial games platform, although the option is there. I think they're relying more on emulated games, and the homebrew community. Additionally, stuff like the breakout board would seem to point more in this direction.

 

[reaper79]

Hmmm... 30,000 GP2X's versus 30,000,000 PSP/DS's... who would you develop for if you wanted to turn a profit?


EDIT: Actually, PSP = around 5.7 million units and the DS = around 7.6 million which totals 13.3 million, but you still get the idea. Add 34 million to that if you count all the GBA users out there that haven't upgraded.

 

[PokeParadox]

I think you don't understand the console.
If you mean commercial games, then yes, comparatively few have been developed. This is simply because the console is targeted at the homebrew community and the majority of devs just want to release their games for free.
SDL has its idiosyncrasies, but it's by no means considered to be difficult to use.
A good OpenGL library would be useful and I'm glad to see some are spending time developing on this front. The GP2X can do software 3D but it's tricky, so mostly games are intended to be 2D.
There is certainly a consumer base. The community is quite willing to support its devs through donations and buy the games released commercially when they can afford them.
The console should be attactive enough if someone wants to write a commercial game since there are no licensing fees to pay to be able to develop on it.

 

[Parkydr]

Few games? There are 289 files (ok not quite 1 file 1 game) in the Games section of the archive.

 

[fargo]

Ok, let me say "Few Good Games"!

BTW, I understand the console very well and I'm sure the people at GPH are not after the homebrew market. They have been trying to create a new sort of commercial market, but all their trials have failed. I'm sure one day they will do it!

 

[fawny]

The community is quite willing to support its devs through donations and buy the games released commercially when they can afford them.
The console should be attactive enough if someone wants to write a commercial game since there are no licensing fees to pay to be able to develop on it.

Absolutely. Just look at Mame - 53,908 downloads. Worst case scenario every downloader downloaded every one of the 30 updates making a user base of about 1800. Now look at the massive list of donations - all 120 odd of them. Hell - thats er...about 6.5% can be arsed to show their appreciation. Well maybe that is a bad example....How about the "community" compo... um... no... even worse....

Face it. The community is too small to attract commercial developers and too apathetic to support the indie devs - so don't expect too much.

They have been trying to create a new sort of commercial market

There is only one kind of commercial market I can envisage. The exchange of goods or work for money. It seems this scene generally fails to grasp that concept and wants it all for free. As they say, you get what you pay for. The best we can hope for is the occasional gem created by an enthusiast - though I doubt they will feel encouraged to hang around by the current scene and produce another one.

 

[PokeParadox]

6.5% is rather healthy when you consider donations imply that they don't have to give anything...

 

[Megagun]

You're being too materialistic, Fawny. Developing free software is not about donations or anything at all. It is all about donating your own spare time, so you can learn new things, and meanwhile produce something others enjoy. I don't think most developers here develop games or applications with donations in mind, and if they do, they should seriously rethink about what it is they are doing..

Also, 'support' isn't being measured in donations *at all*.

 

[senquack]

Only few games have been developed for GP2X and I'm wondering why? Is it because of SDL being difficult? The console does support OpenGL? Is it very slow and weak? Maybe there is no big customer base to attract developers? GPH has not done its job maybe?!

What do you think?

SDL's about as easy as C graphics programming can be. The console isn't weak regarding 2D games. The reason's already been stated and is pretty obvious, I think: there's only a bit over 30,000 GP2X's out there.

The console is actually probably one of the easiest devices in the world to develop programs for. Seriously. Please forget about 3D stuff, the GP2X isn't about that.

Absolutely. Just look at Mame - 53,908 downloads. Worst case scenario every downloader downloaded every one of the 30 updates making a user base of about 1800. Now look at the massive list of donations - all 120 odd of them. Hell - thats er...about 6.5% can be arsed to show their appreciation. Well maybe that is a bad example....How about the "community" compo... um... no... even worse....

That's I think about as good as you're ever going to get in this world. I'm actually pretty impressed!

The GP2X is what it is: some great games, some crappy games, a developer's dream but a publisher's nightmare. I couldn't be more happy with the situation

 

[art1080]

It seems to me like the GP2X would be a great place to start for a budding game creator. You have an audience, you'll get feedback, and when you're done you'll have something to enjoy, or at least better skills for further game making.

 

[krosfyah]

If the real figure is anywhere near 6% then that would be pretty amazing. I can't think of any other scene where the devs get as much support and enthusiasm as this one.

 

[fargo]

Do you think GPH will continue in this market? Developing a portable game console is not easy at all and I see no encouragement for them to continue after GP2X. If they chose to continue, then they must come up with a good marketing plan and be able to push more units to the market. What do you think?

 

[fawny]

If the real figure is anywhere near 6% then that would be pretty amazing. I can't think of any other scene where the devs get as much support and enthusiasm as this one.

Obviously it is nowhere near 6%. Everyone who downloaded it would have had to have been here from the start. MAME was first released a year ago. Also, many of the releases have only been a few days apart, so the actual number of users has to be many times that .

It is MAME afterall.

6% is pretty dismal for a community that relies on these guys to make the GP2x anything more than a paperweight. Other scenes do have commercial software and are not so dependant on homebrew. It is hardly surprising a few show so much support (for emulators, at least).

When you consider 30000 units have been sold, mostly on the strength of emulation, a very large proportion are most likely using MAME. Even if only half are - the percentage drops to a miserly 0.8%. So I don't think it is occasion for the community to slap itself on the back.

But as has been pointed out, it is as good as we can expect it to get, sadly.

 

[Goemon4]

i asked the same question a few weeks ago...tbh im very bored with the 2x, yes emuilation is fun but it can only occuppie me for awhile until i want to play somethign new.... also its mostly and emulation machine, the homebrew scene isnt good at all (for now) i hope it will be, i know there some great entries in the community contest, but how long can they last? they look fun and all but i know ill play each one till i cant (hence play them 24 7 until im bored with them) cause im dying to play a new game! i mean look at the DS, great commercial games, and a good homebrew scene, look at the gba, same thing, they have no real good emu's but have great homebrew games! the 2x tho just has emus... its an emulation machine, not a homebrew machine (as far as games go) sadly, and the games arent pleasing, and there multiple types of each game (pong, tetris, DDr etc) which make up alot of the 200 something games out there, and i only find fun in ports (like mad bomber, liquid war, powermanga) because i play them all the time and their fun on the go, but their never updated and are stil lslow (liquid war and mad bomber are slow compared to the pc originals) but hey, what do you expect, people just port them and go to work on somethig else w/o finishing their previous work (try to find a finished 2x game, there very few) all i know is, i cant wait to get my new ds! (cause my old one broke )

also is it just me or are alot of people starting topics/making comments about the lack of homebrew? or is it just me?

also regarding mame, i have dled it alot of times, it isnt like every DL was from a different person... yes its a great emu, but the onyl real turn on to the 2x (welll that and gngeo) if i didnt have those 2 emus i probably wouldnt even touch my 2x (sadly) sad to see such a great handheld go to waste.....

 

[Parkydr]

As far as I'm concerned LiquidWar2X is finished, no one has made any comment to that effect until now, although I agree it still has some issues (mostly due to me having problems with allegro).

It might be possible to make it faster but it's not surprising it's slower than a PC with probably more than an 8 times faster processor.

Without feedback, I assume people aren't particularly interested, so I move on to something more interesting to me.

I'm working on Chess2X at the moment- Ghanji requested some extra features and it's nearly ready to release, so I can look at LiquidWar2X again if you let me know what you want.

If you want lots of regular new good games, I'd stick to the DS, my son's got one and they're excellent. That was never the GP2X philosophy (nor the GP32's) it's about the community and an open system - people can develop what they want (even if it's crap ). Most people are doing this as a hobby in their spare time.

 

[gmiller1018]

Not that anyone might care but the DS homebrew is very active right now with a lot of possible uses for the ARM7/ARM9 hardware and wireless. They have a complete berkly socket library and devices that allow SD card use. I like the hardware but there is no real OS support. They use the devKITPro toolchain for most of their stuff. I use my DS as a GBA right now but I am looking to do more once the debug use of emulators get's better for the DS emulators. I do the some gamecube stuff as well using the linux for the gamecube (power PC, PPC).

I love working with the GP2X but I am still trying to get a good development environment to work on a windows box, I have it working in Linux. I want to get my lab running with the tools and all of these systems are windows. The lab setup is pretty basic Alienware (lunch box PC's) with LCD panel displays and networking. The gamecube at each station will have a TDEV and official tools from Nintendo and a down loadable set of open source tools. I am trying to get the GP2X tools setup so we can use these station with the GP2X. Once this works consistently I will just get a GP2X for each station.

 

[Goemon4]

As far as I'm concerned LiquidWar2X is finished, no one has made any comment to that effect until now, although I agree it still has some issues (mostly due to me having problems with allegro).

It might be possible to make it faster but it's not surprising it's slower than a PC with probably more than an 8 times faster processor.

Without feedback, I assume people aren't particularly interested, so I move on to something more interesting to me.

I'm working on Chess2X at the moment- Ghanji requested some extra features and it's nearly ready to release, so I can look at LiquidWar2X again if you let me know what you want.

If you want lots of regular new good games, I'd stick to the DS, my son's got one and they're excellent. That was never the GP2X philosophy (nor the GP32's) it's about the community and an open system - people can develop what they want (even if it's crap ). Most people are doing this as a hobby in their spare time.

i just realized the difference today actually, wheni in my 5th hour i booted into slax (on my flash drive) and realized i dled the module for it and it was much faster than the 2x, im not saying its bad in any way, im just kinda implying some things are to much for the 2x, which people are overlooking..... but it is true, the 2x is much slower than a pc, but idrc cause liquid war will forever be fun (no matter how fast/slow it is) and true again, its just that people arent taking advantage of that philosophy, i knew if i could code, id do alot of stuff for the 2x since it is such an open system.... but still, ill just stick to the ds adn such for good games (and stick to the 2x for emus) im just saying is making a good game for the 2x harder than the ds? or is it the lack of things like 3d, wifi, that are putting people off from coding good games for the 2x?

 

[jbrodack]

I'm quite happy with your port of liquidwar. some of the large maps are slow but I can still play pretty fast on most maps and have a lot of fun. i was just happy to get a liquid war port at all but I do think it works quite well.

im happy with my gp2x overall. plus can't wait to download the games in the community contest.

 

[Orkie]

im just saying is making a good game for the 2x harder than the ds? or is it the lack of things like 3d, wifi, that are putting people off from coding good games for the 2x?

I find the DS easier. It is well understood and has a lot of hardware features that help in games such as it's awesome 2D acceleration.