(e)-SATA Port

[hns]

Is THT really that big of a problem? It's hard to believe that sockets are being sold that are impossible to use at all. Maybe THT is more expensive than SMT, but that's a different problem. Could it be that they use THT because it gives better mechanical strength? In that case I would be inclined to use THT. Durability is an important consideration.

Of course you can use through-hole sockets, as long as you're not reflow soldering your board. It's even preferable if you're hand soldering for most people.
The problem in the Pyra is that there's other stuff underneath the socket, most obviously the new hardware control/custom buttons or traces wiring them up, but also on a multilayer board there can be all sorts of other hidden traces routing stuff across the board that you'll inconvenience.

I suspect you're right about the mechanical advantage of through hole soldered sockets, but I've never had a suitably reinforced surface mount socket come free under normal use so I guess that's a non-issue. Either way movement of the socket will fatigue the solder joints, so it may be that THT has no advantage over SMT if the socket is loose and no practical difference if it's properly secured.

The problem of THT vs. SMT of this socket is that the holes drilled for the THT solder rings are so dense that it is difficult to route the wires between them. This makes the whole eSATA connection electrically (50 ohms wiring) very risky to have signal cross-talk (we have some 480 MHz or GHz frequencies on these lines).Here is the data sheet of the Molex 105125-1001 http://www.digikey.de/product-detail/de/1051251001/WM9253CT-ND/3516846 so that you can see what we prefer not to use...

And, we don't want to have too much THT in the production process.

 

[Granitehead]

When I search for "eSATA" on digikey I find two SMT eSATAp sockets.

 

[DAP]

I wonder if there's a stacked (esatap+USB)+USB port.

Digikey does not have anything like that, but they do have as stacked eSATA + HDMI : http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1888540-1/A35076-ND/1246898

Too big to fit in Pyra though.

If we could convince a manufacturer to produce a dual stacked full sized SD card socket, we would get a huge amount of board real-estate back.

 

[mclien]

Perhaps we all should thinl about our (possible) use scenarios.

What ports do I need "on the go"

What do I like to have in desktop use, where I have a dockingstation in use?

Having answered these questions will bring up an idea of wich ports are needed at the Pyra directly, and wich "only" needed at the docking station)

I would like a Pyra with very small number of ports, when it gets smaller in size for that and given that the dockingstations are getting very low prized devices, so I can effort more than one, which I could leave in the most used places (home, work, hackerspace..)

ON the docking station I'd then like to see "as much as possible ports", because the dock will be on externel power anyway.

mclien (starts thinking about his own use-cases..)

 

[TrashyMG]

^ Agreed, a lot of things can be solved with a docking port / docking station especially power requirements and such. perhaps even a place to put a laptop sized HDD/SDD on the docking station.

 

[_wb_]

I'm not really a big fan of docking stations. It assumes you have a desk at one specific spot where you put your monitor, keyboard, mouse etc. If that's your use pattern, just get a desktop pc -- it'll be way cheaper and more powerful.

The point of a pocketable mini computer is that you have everything you need right in your pocket. Adapters, docking stations, dongles, hubs and stuff like that ruin the pocketability.

 

[Natsu]

I'm not really a big fan of docking stations. It assumes you have a desk at one specific spot where you put your monitor, keyboard, mouse etc. If that's your use pattern, just get a desktop pc -- it'll be way cheaper and more powerful.

The point of a pocketable mini computer is that you have everything you need right in your pocket. Adapters, docking stations, dongles, hubs and stuff like that ruin the pocketability.

I think the idea is when you not on the go, you use your docking station. I don't think you meant to take that stuffwith you unless you are going somewhere else for significant amount of time.

 

[Granitehead]

I'm not really a big fan of docking stations. It assumes you have a desk at one specific spot where you put your monitor, keyboard, mouse etc. If that's your use pattern, just get a desktop pc -- it'll be way cheaper and more powerful.

The point of a pocketable mini computer is that you have everything you need right in your pocket. Adapters, docking stations, dongles, hubs and stuff like that ruin the pocketability.

I think the idea is when you not on the go, you use your docking station. I don't think you meant to take that stuffwith you unless you are going somewhere else for significant amount of time.

People just suggested docking stations instead of more ports, so...

 

[Saber]

I'm not really a big fan of docking stations. It assumes you have a desk at one specific spot where you put your monitor, keyboard, mouse etc. If that's your use pattern, just get a desktop pc -- it'll be way cheaper and more powerful.

The point of a pocketable mini computer is that you have everything you need right in your pocket. Adapters, docking stations, dongles, hubs and stuff like that ruin the pocketability.

Agreed. A hub/docking station and most adapters should be add-ons to the Pyra in addition to what's already optionally available from inside it. Should be for convenience purposes only.

What I'd like port-wise on the backside is one USB 3.0, one micro OTG, one micro HDMI, and one 3.5" Headphone Jack, but two full USB ports and a headphone jack are acceptable too, I concede.

Read ED's new post about the Dummy board. Nice. :wub:

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

No, I like all Pyra related gadgets though . Just like you don't like to play games on Pandora doesn't mean others don't

 

[TrashyMG]

I agree we should have as much as possible on the Pyra device, But if it came to a sacrifice I'd rather loose the eSATA port on the device if it meant saving space for a much more needed feature. If it could be still available on the proposed docking station I could live with that. Also I would rather see myself carrying around a small docking station in my travel bag vs what I carrying around currently for the Pandora.. I usually travel with a USB 2.0 hub, USB Ethernet adapter, a USB 2.0 to SATA adapter and three power supplies for the USB SATA adapter, USB 2.0 hub and the Pandora itself. A docking station could eliminate all those items and reduce myself to one power supply I need to carry around.  

 

[Klumpen]

If you want extreme mobility, then you do not carry around HDDs anyway, so imho a port for that only makes sense in a hub

and if you desperately want to carry a hdd around, you can still get a usb3 compatible case for it.

 

[milkshake]

If you want extreme mobility, then you do not carry around HDDs anyway, so imho a port for that only makes sense in a hub


and if you desperately want to carry a hdd around, you can still get a usb3 compatible case for it.

e-sata is the preferred connection for hard drives its the same connection your motherboard uses for hard disks in your (semi modern) PC, I'm sure it will have less latency than USB.

 

[mclien]

I'm not really a big fan of docking stations. It assumes you have a desk at one specific spot where you put your monitor, keyboard, mouse etc. If that's your use pattern, just get a desktop pc -- it'll be way cheaper and more powerful.

cheaper is only true, when Desktop INSTEAD of the Pyra not true if using the Pyra INSTEAD of a Desktop.

Power depens. If the power of the (docked) Pyra is sufficient for all my "desktop tasks" more power is waste...

But since I understand we havn't space for all conectivity build in in the Pyra, I'd like to have them on the dock.

 

[Granitehead]

At the moment there doesn't seem to be anything like an ext connector. This means that there is no way for a theoretical docking station to connect to the SATA pins of the SoC. So it would need an internal hub and USB 3.0 to eSATA adapter.

I think an USB port is worth more than eSATAp, but if a matching eSATAp socket could be found it would be a nice feature.

The problem of THT vs. SMT of this socket is that the holes drilled for the THT solder rings are so dense that it is difficult to route the wires between them. This makes the whole eSATA connection electrically (50 ohms wiring) very risky to have signal cross-talk (we have some 480 MHz or GHz frequencies on these lines).

Here is the data sheet of the Molex 105125-1001 http://www.digikey.de/product-detail/de/1051251001/WM9253CT-ND/3516846 so that you can see what we prefer not to use...

And, we don't want to have too much THT in the production process.

When I search for "eSATA" on digikey I find two SMT eSATAp sockets.

 

[levi]

The connector on the right of the current prototype board appears to be the old Pandora EXT connector. I know that's not what you meant, as that only carries video, audio and GPIO, but I thought I'd point it out anyway.

 

[Binky]

Could the pins used for analogue video on the pandora be used for eSATA in the Pyra?

 

[WizardStan]

According to ED's post, that's a micro HDMI port, not the EXT port. The EXT port appears to be gone.

Sadness ensues.

 

[EvilDragon]

Yes, the EXT port is gone, since it's also out of production already eSATA wouldn't have worked anyways there, since the design wasn't suited for it.

And doing extra cables would've been too expensive anyways

 

[TrashyMG]

Yes, the EXT port is gone, since it's also out of production already eSATA wouldn't have worked anyways there, since the design wasn't suited for it.


And doing extra cables would've been too expensive anyways

Would hackable pads on the PCB still be possible for the gpios and such?

Edit: Saw EvilDragon's response in the other thread.