Double Standards ?

[timeslip]

I am aware of that - I was being humourous




Although Im sure EVERY Company that produced for the Atari ST would see differently - Ocean,EA etc

 

[Akuma no Houkon]

I am aware of that - I was being humourous




Although Im sure EVERY Company that produced for the Atari ST would see differently - Ocean,EA etc

Show me a list (of atleast 20) sites that have gotten warnings or been shut down because of Atari ST roms. Come on, back up your claim that these companies really give a shit. I have been active in many scenes for many years and not once have I EVER heard of a website that got shut down, or even got a warning, because of atari roms. Because no one cares.

On the other hand, I can give you a list of hundreds of websites that have gotten shut down because of offering movies, mp3's, etc... hell im sure you have already run across many in your own wanderings, they are everywhere.

You do see the fundemental difference here do you not?

 

[timeslip]

At the end of the day copyright is copyright, Im sure you`d have said exactly the same thing if the conversation had been about spectrum roms - The only difference is the Copyright Owner Amstrad decided to resurect speccy games for their email phones - Just because they are old doesnt make it any more illegal

But we can argue all day about it - Basically the forums rules are they`ll break the law if they feel they wont get caught!
arguing about it aint gonna change that

 

[EvilDragon]

Okay, timeslip.
You wrote PMs to the Mods? I didn't get one, and I WAS the FIRST who complained about the WAREZ on the torrent site.

Hmm...

And regarding ST files:
Yes, the ST files are STILL under a copyright.
BUT (I've been in the emulation scene since 1992, A64 on the Amiga...)

MOST programmers / coders of the OLD computers are VERY pleased (and proud) to find their old works still archived and played again (I've read A LOT of interviews).
Most old rom sites remove the old games by request.

It's COMPLETELY different if you compare them to NEW, and STILL SOLD stuff.
If you can STILL buy the games / movies / etc. you make SERIOUS COMMERCIAL DAMAGE for the company. But if you can't buy the stuff anymore - nobody will suffer.

So it's technically not legal, but most consider it okay...

And that's how WE see it here on our forums.
Any problems with it?

(And don't tell me Finding Nemo is not being sold anymore...)

 

[phoda]

Please timeslip - just stop this nonsense.

There is no such thing as a double standard - obviously there are laws and there are always exceptions dictated by common sense!

Imagine you are on a 45 mph road. If you are driving above 45 you should - by law - get a ticket.
However, if a cop sees you driving between 45 and 50 you will probably not get it. Depending on the cop's common sense!

Now - if you are driving at 95, you will surely get the cop's attention and will most definitely get a ticket!

You are trying to drive at 95 on a 45 - and justifying it saying that you are doing exactly the same thing as someone driving at 50.

You came to this board, you did stuff that people from the board did not like. If you don't agree with the board rules - explicit or implicit - just open a new board yourself, with your own rules.

Please - use your common sense. Just stop farting around with this.

 

[timeslip]

Okay, timeslip.
You wrote PMs to the Mods? I didn't get one, and I WAS the FIRST who complained about the WAREZ on the torrent site.

Hmm...

And regarding ST files:
Yes, the ST files are STILL under a copyright.
BUT (I've been in the emulation scene since 1992, A64 on the Amiga...)

MOST programmers / coders of the OLD computers are VERY pleased (and proud) to find their old works still archived and played again (I've read A LOT of interviews).
Most old rom sites remove the old games by request.

It's COMPLETELY different if you compare them to NEW, and STILL SOLD stuff.
If you can STILL buy the games / movies / etc. you make SERIOUS COMMERCIAL DAMAGE for the company. But if you can't buy the stuff anymore - nobody will suffer.

So it's technically not legal, but most consider it okay...

And that's how WE see it here on our forums.
Any problems with it?

(And don't tell me Finding Nemo is not being sold anymore...)

Sorry EvilDragon,
Only PM`d one mod (sure his name began with axe.........)

I agree with you - I myself was contacted asking if i`d allow my amiga/st to be freely distributed.

Only reason i started the topic in the 1st place was the fact that i couldnt say in a forum i had Preconverted GPC stuff and to contact me privately if interested - At no point would anything specific be mentioned.

I mean christ its not like i would have got anything outa it apart from spending my time free of charge helping out other GP32 owners

I was trying to be nice and have had no end of shit about it
I`ll not bother in future

 

[Akuma no Houkon]

As phoda said, its all a matter of degree. TV Shows, and movies, are still viable commercial products. And that isnt about to change any time soon.

There are companies out there with the sole purpose of protecting the copyrights of TV and Video. And they dont play games (no pun intended). There isnt, however, a taskforce going arround protecting the copyright laws of old console games. As evildragon said, a large portion of the developers consider it an honor that many years later, their games are still enjoyed but large communities.

 

[Anox]

Plus fair play to u picking up on my 666

[OT]
Can we trade?
[/OT]

 

[timeslip]

Plus fair play to u picking up on my 666

[OT]
Can we trade?
[/OT]

Sorry mate but I dont trade in the forums - Got a 50 flames as a good reason!
PM me if yer serious!

 

[thingley]

There isnt, however, a taskforce going arround protecting the copyright laws of old console games. As evildragon said, a large portion of the developers consider it an honor that many years later, their games are still enjoyed but large communities.

Unfortunately there is - A while back I remember the IDSA having a go at the 'World of Spectrum' archive. Even tho' Amstrad who owned the rights to the spectrum machine endorse the site and there are loads of developers on its lists who have given permission for them to distribute their old software. (So the IDSA left them alone in the end)

I think the fact that the software industry can afford the money to set up busybody organisitions to try to prevent us from playing manic miner does kind of show that this emulation and piracy stuff can't be doing them as much harm as they suggest.

If you are unbelievably bored you can always pop over to the IDSA site:

http://www.idsa.com/piracy.html

and read the FAQ - As an emulation fan this is possibly the most depressing read going.

 

[timeslip]

There isnt, however, a taskforce going arround protecting the copyright laws of old console games. As evildragon said, a large portion of the developers consider it an honor that many years later, their games are still enjoyed but large communities.

Unfortunately there is - A while back I remember the IDSA having a go at the 'World of Spectrum' archive. Even tho' Amstrad who owned the rights to the spectrum machine endorse the site and there are loads of developers on its lists who have given permission for them to distribute their old software. (So the IDSA left them alone in the end)

I think the fact that the software industry can afford the money to set up busybody organisitions to try to prevent us from playing manic miner does kind of show that this emulation and piracy stuff can't be doing them as much harm as they suggest.

If you are unbelievably bored you can always pop over to the IDSA site:

http://www.idsa.com/piracy.html

and read the FAQ - As an emulation fan this is possibly the most depressing read going.

From the IDSA Site -

No, the current availability of a game in stores is irrelevant to its copyright status. Unlike trademarks, copyrights are not considered abandoned if they are no longer enforced. Copyrights do not enter the public domain just because they are no longer commercially exploited or widely available. Therefore, the copyrights of games are valid even if the games are not found on store shelves, and copying or distributing those games is a copyright infringement.

Haven't the copyrights for old games (like Atari & Commodore) expired?

U.S. copyright laws state that copyrights owned by corporations are valid for 75 years from the date of first publication. Because video & computer games have been around for less than three decades, the copyrights of all video and computer programs will not expire for many decades to come.

 

[thingley]

Yep - it is a little restrictive isn't it! I think if the game was a license like Batman or the turtles or something the copyright can last even longer (If the character is still a going concern - Which Batman might not be after schumachers last film)

At the 'world of spectrum' archive a few companies when contacted had asked for their games to be removed (I think Rare and codemasters were among them).

So thats why if you go along there (I don't think the rules let me link to it ) you can't download any Dizzy (no great loss!) or ultimate games (Jet-pac and sabrewulf).

Thankfully most of the companies the site has contacted have been really happy to have their game distributed from there - so there is some hope!

 

[Akuma no Houkon]

Its not really about copyrights expiring or not, and not all of those games have copyrights that long, I doubt if even 1/4 of them do. They are stating the longest possible there, not the majority. I run a software company (free software that I develop), have registered bussiness licences, pay taxes on it, and deal with copyright issues for my own works. Notice they use the word "corporation", how many of those software companies are technically considered corporations? How many of those companies still exist? How many really give a shit?

Atari roms have been arround long enough that all the companies that care, have already requested that their games be removed from these sites, and every site that gets that request, almost down to the last one, removes the game in question.

There is a big difference here, and no amount of arguing will change that fact.

 

[thebluenewt]

I have to admit I've always wondered why these ST sites are ok and no others are, it's definitely illegal even if no publisher complain. I just never cared enough to mention it!

 

[declaration]

I would say that there is a large number of illegal roms downloadable at the ftp address
linked to on these boards. Many of the games available have since been ported to other, newer platforms or ported to handheld consoles. Some of the games are not even that old. Lots of them are from the early 90's and the SNES era.

Pinning the subject just causes confusion as to the Warez policy of this board and starts arguments like this one.

If I am allowed to tell you where to get Prince of Persia for the ST, why am I not allowed to tell you where you can get a SNES, Genesis, or GG version of the very same game.

 

[timeslip]

I would say that there is a large number of illegal roms downloadable at the ftp address
linked to on these boards. Many of the games available have since been ported to other, newer platforms or ported to handheld consoles. Some of the games are not even that old. Lots of them are from the early 90's and the SNES era.

Pinning the subject just causes confusion as to the Warez policy of this board and starts arguments like this one.

If I am allowed to tell you where to get Prince of Persia for the ST, why am I not allowed to tell you where you can get a SNES, Genesis, or GG version of the very same game.

and that was my original point!

 

[khephren]

Atari roms have been arround long enough that all the companies that care, have already requested that their games be removed from these sites, and every site that gets that request, almost down to the last one, removes the game in question.

There is a big difference here, and no amount of arguing will change that fact.

Not strictly true- the only reason they have not payed much attention to Joes FTP. Is because:
A)most of them do not know about it
B)Those still going concerns do not realise that a handheld can use intelectual property that they are still using on the GBA. I know quite a few ex sensible, and a few at bitmap brothers guys who would stomp on this if they knew it might affect GBA game sales. Would you be happy knowing someone was playing your 'speedball 2' on a portable for free, when you had just released a new one?

We are being hypocritical. But my point of view is, until we actually know some one is on the hunt against ST sites (like Nintendo, Sega are for their property) then keep joes link there. This isn't about copyright- it's about what we know we can get away with without the corporate owners caring.

 

[Racemaniac]

i'm with timeslip on this one
he's being very nice trying to do some nice stuff for the community, although they may be not so legal (yup, probably commercial vids are gonna be shared trough his page...), but for all you know the only people who download it have got the DVD or so, and just are bad at encoding
but what really bothers me is that he starts a nice initiative, is so friendly not to explicitly mention any warez, nor encourage people to share them trough his service, and all he gets is lamers saying "it's gonna be used for warez isn't it? warez don't belong here"
you use it for whatever you want, some people will do some warez over it, others won't, you could for example share unlicensed anime, which is allowed... or just funny vids from the internet or so... and what does it matter if it might be used for warez? i've seen plenty of references to E-donkey on this forum (as where to also get encoded vids), i haven't ever seen any thread getting closed or post edited for the word E-donkey, while it has happened for what he's doing, personally i see no difference what so ever...

 

[timeslip]

i'm with timeslip on this one
he's being very nice trying to do some nice stuff for the community, although they may be not so legal (yup, probably commercial vids are gonna be shared trough his page...), but for all you know the only people who download it have got the DVD or so, and just are bad at encoding
but what really bothers me is that he starts a nice initiative, is so friendly not to explicitly mention any warez, nor encourage people to share them trough his service, and all he gets is lamers saying "it's gonna be used for warez isn't it? warez don't belong here"
you use it for whatever you want, some people will do some warez over it, others won't, you could for example share unlicensed anime, which is allowed... or just funny vids from the internet or so... and what does it matter if it might be used for warez? i've seen plenty of references to E-donkey on this forum (as where to also get encoded vids), i haven't ever seen any thread getting closed or post edited for the word E-donkey, while it has happened for what he's doing, personally i see no difference what so ever...

Thanks m8,
the reason 4 this post was originally because I got DAMN flamed for trying to help out other member of community.

Theres plenty of assholes giving grief left and right for no reason and it annoyed me getting grilled for nothing more than trying to help out

 

[BaDToaD]

timeslip the simple fact is this is not your board. If the Moderators want to have "double standards" as you call them then it's up to them not you so why don't you just shut up for a while. For someone who's been a member of this board for a considerable length of time and probably got a great deal out of it you show an amazing lack of respect.
Maybe you should start your own board to see the time and effort that goes into keeping a busy board running.
I for one am very happy with the general way this board is run and it's got to be just about the best community I've ever been involved in.
Basically just stop bleating about things and enjoy the board otherwise I'll be forced to nickname you Flossy... Baa!