Do we really need a full sized USB host port and HDMI?

[Exophase]

If someone walks in front of me while I'm playing something I'm throwing my controller at them. Problem solved.


Wait, that's probably worse :<


Let's settle on this - if you think that the cables are a hazard for jerks walking in front of you while not paying attention you aren't going to want to use the Pandora this way (like Grench said, preferring to use a wireless controller with it). But then having a locking port doesn't hurt you. Why not keep it for those of us who are certain that no one is going to trip on our controller cables, and want the added durability?

 

[Sebastian Castro]

Well... I'm not going to put forward any reason, because you guys have said enough imho, but I'm going to express that one of my main reasons to buying my Pandora was the full sized USB port and if a P2 won't have one I would look elsewhere.


About HDMI, I won't tolerate anything fixed. (Clippers would fix it though. To remove the clamps.) Mini would be better. Anything "hot" would do.


I won't comment about the other stuff discussed in this thread (SD card type or MHL)

 

[WizardStan]

Why not keep it for those of us who are certain that no one is going to trip on our controller cables, and want the added durability?

Oh sure, if you wanted to be reasonable and find compromises, I guess that could work.

 

[Binky]

Why is everyone so keen on removing the best features of the P1?


To gain market, we should be less like the competition.


Think pocket laptop.


Would you buy a laptop with no full USB? With microSD as the only upgradeable disk? That required wierd hacks to run linux.


ED's ideas of the P2 is EXACTLY what I'd like to be carrying with me in a couple of year's time.


Perhaps we should be more vocal supporting him I'd hate to see him drop out because of Craig's android-powered vision.

 

[overgauss]

My main point was that saying that microUSB is mechanically flawed is a false statement. I acknowledge that it may be an inconvenience to some and illustrated why it wasn't for me. I even said that your mileage may vary indicating that what is true for me does not mean it is true for everyone else. If you continue to have a problem with that so be it. If mechanically flawed "full" USB is what you prefer, I have no real problem with that. I just tend to look towards the future and am not as easily inconvenienced as you guys seem to be.


I have many devices that use mini and micro usb and I get along fine with them. I understand that some of you can't do the same. I'm just offering my own perspective as unpopular as it will always remain to be. You may consider that yet another one of my several character flaws.


Binky said this:

My point about microUSB was that the connectors break off the circuit board VERY Easily.

However this does no good on the insertion standpoint. I would agree SMT microUSB is a bad thing. Check this out. You'll see that microUSB 3.0 has the option for through hole mounting.

 

[overgauss]

Why is everyone so keen on removing the best features of the P1?


To gain market, we should be less like the competition.


Think pocket laptop.


Would you buy a laptop with no full USB? With microSD as the only upgradeable disk? That required wierd hacks to run linux.


ED's ideas of the P2 is EXACTLY what I'd like to be carrying with me in a couple of year's time.


Perhaps we should be more vocal supporting him I'd hate to see him drop out because of Craig's android-powered vision.

Many pocket laptops use micro or mini SD. In fact the "king" of the newer pocket laptops aka Zaurus C1000-C3200 used MINI USB. That was way back in 2005! Although it had one SD slot (granted).

 

[overgauss]

I'm not sure why the discussion is moot because I was under the impression that the powers that be were in full support of "full" USB. As always feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

It is pointless to discuss, I did not realize that moot primarily means "debatable". It also means "not of practical value", which is what I meant.

You quoted one part but omited the part that qualified my statement.

The omission did not distort your argument. I'm not doing the legwork of of analyzing and perfectly quoting your posts, it's just too much. As a matter of fact my eyes just skim your rants for the hotspots.


On the matter of accusational mistakes I also did not report you even though you implied I did in one of your posts a little while back (about "crying to mods" or somesuch).


Ironic how you post quote dumps of what other people have said to indict them, but in your last implosion you deleted all but a few of your own posts.

No time for the rest but I wanted to clarify moot.


moot/mo͞ot/


Adjective: Subject to debate, dispute, or uncertainty, and typically not admitting of a final decision. Verb: Raise (a question or topic) for discussion; suggest (an idea or possibility). Synonyms:


adjective. debatable - disputable - controversial - arguable


verb. discuss - debate - dispute - canvass - talk over - argue

implosion

I think you meant explosion as implosion implies a shrinkage of somesort. Unless I missed your meaning altogether. I deleted my post for several reason that I won't bore you with but if you are interested I won't mind going into exhaustive detail just for you.

 

[overgauss]

I'm not sure why the discussion is moot because I was under the impression that the powers that be were in full support of "full" USB. As always feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

It is pointless to discuss, I did not realize that moot primarily means "debatable". It also means "not of practical value", which is what I meant.

You quoted one part but omited the part that qualified my statement.

The omission did not distort your argument. I'm not doing the legwork of of analyzing and perfectly quoting your posts, it's just too much. As a matter of fact my eyes just skim your rants for the hotspots.


On the matter of accusational mistakes I also did not report you even though you implied I did in one of your posts a little while back (about "crying to mods" or somesuch).


Ironic how you post quote dumps of what other people have said to indict them, but in your last implosion you deleted all but a few of your own posts.

Just saw this not show why you're talking when my post was directed to exophase. You can tell because he responded and I apologized to him.


Edit: My mistake I do recall saying something along the lines of don't go crying to mods if I tell you what I really feel. If you can show where I accused you of such I would happily apologize as always. Note I didn't accuse you of making a report.

 

[Exophase]

Pandora has miniUSB and full USB. Pandora 2 is supposed to also use this arrangement. Although they don't support the same sort of things right now in the future they'll converge more. So you can use the one you prefer, where choosing is realistic. It has never been about picking one port over the other.


I expect people aren't that opposed to using a microUSB instead of the miniUSB. Dropping the full USB does make it a lot less convenient. Replacing it with a second mini or microUSB doesn't save you that much. Can anyone even think of a device with multiple mini or microUSB ports?


Overgauss, do you really not understand how to break up quotes or edit posts or do you just not care? Putting separate replies to separate people in different consecutive posts is one thing (although still frowned upon) but making multiple posts to respond to the same source and highlighting the part you're responding to in red is incredibly superfluous and lazy. If you're not going to reduce your own walls of text at least try to trim the amount of stuff you're bringing in from other people.

 

[bismuthdrummer]

My 11th edition Merriam Webster would like to have a word with you, Overgauss... 1st definition is "debatable" like I already said, 2nd definition is "deprived of practical significance." Just like this pedantic semantic debate I am now ending, on all fronts. You seriously have some kind of complex. Good talking to you.


@Exophase, my MK808 Android and I believe its relatives have the mixture of mini-usb OTG and full-size USB. I can't think of anything else though... EDIT: Sorry, you meant both mini/micro. I don't know of any, myself.

 

[Exophase]

@Exophase, my MK808 Android and I believe its relatives have the mixture of mini-usb OTG and full-size USB. I can't think of anything else though... EDIT: Sorry, you meant both mini/micro. I don't know of any, myself.

Yeah, my UG802 is the same (both devices have microUSB though, not mini). For these devices it's practically a requirement if you don't use a wireless remote since you need the full USB to hook up a keyboard and/or mouse and the microUSB to charge it. For Pandora it's more just a cool feature.

 

[bismuthdrummer]

Yeah, my UG802 is the same (both devices have microUSB though, not mini). For these devices it's practically a requirement if you don't use a wireless remote since you need the full USB to hook up a keyboard and/or mouse and the microUSB to charge it. For Pandora it's more just a cool feature.

Oh, actually mine has two mini-USB, one for charging and one for OTG. I did not know the UG802 had micro USB though, interesting.

Spoiler

TV stick on the top, tracfone below it. Sorry for the blur...

But for Pandora, though full-size USB isn't a requirement in the same sense as these devices, to me it certainly is a core feature.

 

[Grench]

How about making the back of the device look like this? Notice the stacked SD and microSD and microUSB charging ports.


http://www.amazon.com/Juiced-Systems-MHL-Adapter-MicroSDHC/dp/B008CQKM2U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1354293804&sr=8-1&keywords=juiced+5+in+1+mhl

It results in a 'thick' device, but if we're going to insist on a full sized USB port, it isn't going to be svelte.

 

[Binky]

How about making the back of the device look like this? Notice the stacked SD and microSD and microUSB charging ports.


http://www.amazon.co...iced 5 in 1 mhl

It results in a 'thick' device, but if we're going to insist on a full sized USB port, it isn't going to be svelte.

I would love a P2 with that as a back panel. - only needs USB 3.0 to be complete


quote++

 

[Exophase]

Oh, actually mine has two mini-USB, one for charging and one for OTG. I did not know the UG802 had micro USB though, interesting.

Well that's weird - I assumed the page you linked would actually have accurate specs Guess that's kind of a lot to expect for these devices.

 

[Grench]

How about making the back of the device look like this? Notice the stacked SD and microSD and microUSB charging ports.


http://www.amazon.co...iced 5 in 1 mhl

It results in a 'thick' device, but if we're going to insist on a full sized USB port, it isn't going to be svelte.

I would love a P2 with that as a back panel. - only needs USB 3.0 to be complete


quote++

Thinking about what must be going on inside that chunk of plastic...


It's providing power to the dongle and back upstream to the device.


It's translating the device's MHL port into HDMI.


It's translating the USB side of the MHL port into a full sized USB host and two card readers - so there's most likely a hub inside it.


A version of that updated to USB 3.0 without the plastic case (board & features) could fit the, "P2 is modular" requirement.


Or, if compatibility were built into the P2, a single MHL port on the back of it plus a USB 3.0 version of this dongle could eliminate a lot of on-board feature requirement. It'd just be awkward as hell.


The important thing here is that they're able to stack those features that way. I wonder what parts they're using to do it.

 

[Nintendo]

Let us stay on topic please and Dictionary.com can stay out of this.


Also, Overgauss, please try not to double post (or more) too much.


Cheers.

 

[quartercast]

Welcome back

 

[Binky]

@grench, if a module similar to that were updated, but with a fixed plug instead of a wire, and trapezoidal so that it fitted comfortably onto the back of the P2 (would also need strong mechanical clips), that would be neat.


effectively, you would be able to optionally add enough board space for the important connectors.


If I were designing such a thing, I would put the full SD sideways, so as to prevent the module sticking out too much

 

[Grench]

@Binky, that would essentially be a docking station at that point. In theory that docking station could simply connect to an MHL host on the P2 and have a pair of chromed steel pins to insert into the P2 to give additional stability. The piece missing is USB 3.0.


Either way though, it would wind up being a rather expensive piece of kit due to low build quantity.


At a certain point, though, the P2 needs to be made 'large enough to fit the requirements.' If the requirements are two SDXC, a full sized USB 3.0 host port and a full sized HDMI and a microUSB OTG port - then it may well have to be a larger machine.


If, on the other hand, diminutive size is given wins the thought process, a single microSDXC and a single MHL port. That would truly allow for the most diminutive device, but the functionality loss may be more than we're all willing to work from.


I don't see a lot of middle ground. Either they'll need to compromise on device size (larger) or compromise on function (tiny).


@Sony - welcome back!