Disillusioned?


psj3809 posted on Mar 11 2005 at 10:30 AM said:
SNES games are very good but i tend to find because of emulation i often play each game 5 minutes at a time instead of the old days when you waited for 5 minutes to load a game by tape and then played it for 3 hours.


Ain't that the truth! I used to play any old crap game for hours on end, simply because of the investment in time loading the thing (possibly taking three attempts due to my Speccy 48k's temperamental tape player).

I often find myself overwhelmed when I have a choice of 1000 roms, 998 of which I've never played before. It's one of the reasons that I play the (much underrated) GP32 homebrew games so much. Less to choose from!

J(ohn)
 
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Its a catch 22 really. Back in the days when you had to pay 8 quid for some tape game for the C64 or Speccy you played it for ages because 1) it took about 5 minutes to load and 2) as you paid so much for it you wanted to play it a lot longer. Back then an 8.95 game for a 14 year old was a fair bit !

Because of emulation we can try so many other systems and many other games that we've heard about or that we've 'discovered' but like we both agree on on the other hand we probably dont spend a ton of time playing the same games.

I must admit at times i try to complete a particular game, eg Sonic I, because of save states etc i can keep giving it another go till i complete it.

But also just because of time i cant always play some mammoth RPG type game on the PC as i just dont have time compared to the old days. Eg theres drinking and girlfriends to think of ! Thats why some of the shorter simpler games are some of the best.

I do love the fact that on my GP32 i have about 400 games so at any time i could just dip in and try a different one. Like i've said before because of emulation you really get to appreciate different systems and its also worked the 'reverse'. I've tried many great arcade conversions on the PC Engine and even though theyre brilliant i find myself even more liking the more simpler version of those games on systems such as the Speccy.

Its a lot of fun finding out the best games for a particular system and at the moment on MAME i think i've got the best games i want for that system now so i've deleted the rest.

Emulation still amazes me though !
 
I understand why save states are important, but people, a lot of games that are emulated never had the option to save. Most of the older ones had passwords, and hey, the passwords work on emulated games. If you powered off the original console, you had to start from the beginning again when you powered it back up. For the most part, save states is a bonus, but shouldn't be a necessity. People dissing an emu, or plain just refusing to play one, like FGB, is just plain dumb.
 
Goddamn, psj3809! I still go with the fucking dumbass comment. <_<

I DO NOT HATE ANY EMULATORS, I'M JUST NOT INTERESTED IN THE OLDER ONES!

Is this concept too hard for you to comprehend or something? Your constant mistinterpretation is pissing me off because it is getting other people all riled up against me. Let me just restate everything that I've said and let's base EVERY post after this based on these points, not psj3809's misinterpreted points:

- I love SNES; it is probably the only console that I would donate my own money for (But, at the moment, I'm not satisfied enough with it to the point where I would want to donate some of my own money (Keep in mind that I'm only 15 also; I don't have as much money as you older guys to donate).

-DrMD is a WONDERFUL emulator, and I am amazed at its incredible speed with sound. But, I don't think it is perfect, because many of the games that I would play a GENESIS emulator for either have music that isn't going at full speed or have missing sounds. Some examples from the top of my head:

Kid Chameleon - Slow sound, many missing SFX, and weird screeching/water flowing (Or something like that) sound.

Sonic 2, 3, & Knuckles and 3D- I'm sure everybody is already aware of this one, but sound playback is really slow, and these sonic games are at the very top of my list of GENESIS games that I want to play on my GP.

Streets of Rage 3 - Music playback isn't full speed, and, obviously because it hasn't been emulated yet, all the voices are missing, which are supposed to be VERY common in the game, like when you do your Specials or rushing attacks, or when you kill somebody. And ALL the hittng SFX are gone. So, its all music playing kind of slow and the sound of your fisting going against the air with the occasional thump of a body falling on the ground.

Sonic Spinball - I think this games might have the slowest playing music of them all, which is quite a disappointment because I loved its music and couldn't wait to listen to it again on the go on my GP. Its also missing SFX, so its pretty much only very slow playing music.

Again, I DO NOT HATE DrMD FOR THESE REASONS, I JUST THINK ITS NOT PERFECT BECAUSE OF THESE REASONS, AND I KNOW IT'S TOO EARLY TO CALL IT PERFECT, WHICH IS WHY I THINK THESE PROBLEMS WILL BE FIXED IN THE FUTURE. JUST IN CASE YOU ARE WONDERING, I USE DrMD A LOT, NEARLY EVERY TIME I USE MY GP.

-I'm not interested in the older games because they are too old for me. Let's see if you can comprehend this concept. The fact is, you grew up on the Speccy, that right there makes your point invalid because the Speccy's GFX/SFX/GAMEPLAY are more associated with these older consoles than the NES/SNES would be, which is what I grew up on. Get it? There's a MUCH bigger difference between the NES/SNES to something like the Colecovision, than between the Speccy to the Colecovision. And I do realize that like 10 years from now, kids will be thinking that the SNES really sucks and has shitty GFX, SFX, etc., and they will start to think of the current next gen consoles as what they grew up on and what they would like to have emulated on the go. It is inevitable. I accept that it has to happen and I accept that it happend to me. Now you need to accept that its inevitable and that it is only natural. And I think you can say that you have no interest in something if you have seen it in action and seen its gameplay, graphics, and sound. And also because you realize how much time it would take to find all the roms for these older consoles and how long it would take to find the good ones (Or try ones that seem like good ones, throwing on your GP and try them out, then delete it if you find out that its not too good, and then having to do the whole process over again).

-AGAIN, I DO NOT HATE ANY EMULATORS, I'M JUST NOT INTERESTED IN THE ONES FOR OLDER CONSOLES (I DO HAVE fMSX ON MY GP SIMPLY BECAUSE OF RALLY-X). PLEASE TRY TO REALIZE THIS!!! I DON'T ANY EMULATORS!!! I USE A LOT OF THEM AND I LIKE THEM A LOT. I OFTEN USE GPENGINE, GPVGB, DrMD, fMSX, AND LJGP32. I'VE PUT IN MORE HOURS PLAYING GPVGB THAN I HAVE PUT INTO PLAYING ALL SNES EMULATORS COMBINED, SO YOUR COMMENT ON HOW IT SEEMS LIKE I ONLY LIKE THE SNES EMULATOR AND HATE EVERY OTHER ONE IS FALSE.

-I'm completly aware of how hard it is to code, and I'm not undermining any of the coder's efforts here. This is just another misinterpretation by psj3809. And in case you are wondering, I do plan on coding for the GP32, most likely this summer, but I'm too busy with school to find time to learn C++ again.

-What you need to realize is that MANY, and I mean MANY, people were being tricked into buying the GP thinking that it could emulate MANY consoles perfectly. And you need to realize the time period when this happend. It happend LONG before you became a member on GP32x. Back then, there wasn't too much info about the GP32, and so there were a lot of misconceptions about it, and, unfortunately, they were everywhere. So, many got tricking into buying it. I first started looking into the GP32 in around FALL of '02. That was quite a long time ago, and since then, the GP32 has become a lot more popular and its capabilities have become a lot clearer across the internet, making people being tricked into buying it very rare, which is probably why you find the whole idea funny.

-ALL I WAS TRYING TO SAY FROM THE VERY BEGINNING WAS THAT I FEEL THAT A LOT OF OUR OLDER EMULATORS (LIKE FOR NGPC, GB/GBC, PC ENGINE, etc.) SHOULD GET MORE ATTENTION TO CODERS AND THAT WE SHOULD START SPENDING MORE TIME ON FIXING UP THESE OLDER EMULATORS INSTEAD OF TRYING TO PUSH THE GP32's LIMITS WITH THINGS LIKE MAME OR GBA EMULATORS. I AM NOT EXPRESSING ANY HATE TO ANYTHING, INCLUDING CODERS AND EMULATORS!

*awaits for next misinterpretation*
:rolleyes:

EDIT: By saves, I mean actual saving support, not save states.
 
I love SNES; it is probably the only console that I would donate my own money for (But, at the moment, I'm not satisfied enough with it to the point where I would want to donate some of my own money (Keep in mind that I'm only 15 also; I don't have as much money as you older guys to donate).

Well You are going to have to wait a long time i think, As it is up to the coder which projects they choose to undertake. Unless someone can think of an incentive to persuade someone to code a perfect snes emutator or improve and perfect and already available emulator then it will probably never happen soon.

If all you want is a perfect portable snes emulator, Why don`t you invest in one of thoughs dedicated snes portables that take the actual snes cartridges, Because that is the only way your going to get it (I know their not cheap).

Pocket pc`s with 400mhz processor still have trouble emulating the snes at full speed, So how do you expect the GP32 with it`s 166mhz (overclocked) processor to get anywhere near that any time soon.

As i said before, And i will say it again, I think your expectations of the GP32 and the GP32 coders are way too high.

You may need to re-evaluate your reasons for purchasing a GP32.

Trooper
 
psj3809 posted on Mar 11 2005 at 12:59 PM said:
Its a catch 22 really. Back in the days when you had to pay 8 quid for some tape game for the C64 or Speccy you played it for ages because 1) it took about 5 minutes to load and 2) as you paid so much for it you wanted to play it a lot longer. Back then an 8.95 game for a 14 year old was a fair bit !

Because of emulation we can try so many other systems and many other games that we've heard about or that we've 'discovered' but like we both agree on on the other hand we probably dont spend a ton of time playing the same games.

I must admit at times i try to complete a particular game, eg Sonic I, because of save states etc i can keep giving it another go till i complete it.

But also just because of time i cant always play some mammoth RPG type game on the PC as i just dont have time compared to the old days. Eg theres drinking and girlfriends to think of ! Thats why some of the shorter simpler games are some of the best.

I do love the fact that on my GP32 i have about 400 games so at any time i could just dip in and try a different one. Like i've said before because of emulation you really get to appreciate different systems and its also worked the 'reverse'. I've tried many great arcade conversions on the PC Engine and even though theyre brilliant i find myself even more liking the more simpler version of those games on systems such as the Speccy.

Its a lot of fun finding out the best games for a particular system and at the moment on MAME i think i've got the best games i want for that system now so i've deleted the rest.

Emulation still amazes me though !


Enjoyed reading through this thread. And PSJ, I'm with you! I was a Speccy Kid (the computer I mean!!!), and just love having so many games on the smc. I get overwelmed by how many are on there, but know i'll get round to playing them eventually. (if I could just stop playing 3d death chase...). And the chance to play a game to its end re. save states is bliss! I've finally finished sonic 2, 10 years or so after trying! And I currently have 54 lives left on SM3!!!!!! HA! B)

We must remember that Azure is only 15 (patronising voice). He can sure type, but is making a very one-sided argument. It simply won't wash to say I've no interest in this or that game, cos I haven't played it/them(to paraphrase-this is what you are saying). You never know till you try. I never had any nintendo systems, but am loving playing through the nes stuff, and pray for a snes that works with my blu+. I bought my BLU for the speccy, and consequently have found new areas to explore. Why not? I'm as thick with emulators as anyone, but am happy to learn. And I will get castaway to load!!! One day. If you ain't prepared to learn about it, don't bother. And don't complain either.

As to the argument 'we' should improve what we have before working on new emus, why? 'They' the devs can do what they like! It's up to them, their time and we should just be grateful. If someone wants to do a bbc emu, then let them. Lots of us will be happy to play around with it. If you want to get DRMD better, then email Reesy, write happy posts. As a 15 year old, nobody expects you to donate much, but you can get involved in other ways, positive ways!

But, the main point is this, us older guys and gals remember when coders had 48KB to work with. One man in his bedroom coding Lords of Midnight. 3000odd screens in 12kbs of memory, David Braine (or whatever) using complex routines tooget all those planets in Elite etc. It's not just the games for me, it's the fact that people can make them work. It brings back the atmosphere of the nedroom coder and I love it for that!

And if you aren't interested in mame, don't play it. But you'll miss out because even tho graphics are important, it's gameplay that matters. And that was the reason I wasted so many 10ps on the things (btw, gone through penguin Kunwars. You just start again <_< !!! Where's my trophy????)

It's just the nostalgia you are missing!

But, it is free!!!

I love it, now back to the readme file in castaway............ :blink:
 
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@Azure: All of those problems with Dr Md have pretty much been fixed. Since I, like you cannot really donate, I wait patiently for the next public release, and by "wait patiently", I mean "play Lemmings on Dr Md while I wait". :)
 
trooper posted on Mar 12 2005 at 01:45 PM said:
I love SNES; it is probably the only console that I would donate my own money for (But, at the moment, I'm not satisfied enough with it to the point where I would want to donate some of my own money (Keep in mind that I'm only 15 also; I don't have as much money as you older guys to donate).

Well You are going to have to wait a long time i think, As it is up to the coder which projects they choose to undertake. Unless someone can think of an incentive to persuade someone to code a perfect snes emutator or improve and perfect and already available emulator then it will probably never happen soon.

If all you want is a perfect portable snes emulator, Why don`t you invest in one of thoughs dedicated snes portables that take the actual snes cartridges, Because that is the only way your going to get it (I know their not cheap).

Pocket pc`s with 400mhz processor still have trouble emulating the snes at full speed, So how do you expect the GP32 with it`s 166mhz (overclocked) processor to get anywhere near that any time soon.

As i said before, And i will say it again, I think your expectations of the GP32 and the GP32 coders are way too high.

You may need to re-evaluate your reasons for purchasing a GP32.

Trooper
I know I'm going to wait a really long time before we get decent snes emulation, but I can't afford any other handheld, which I've mentioned before, which is why I'm still relying on the GP32 for my SNES emulation, if/when it arrives. I know the odds of snes emulation happening are slim, but the GP32 is pretty much my only hope, which is why I'm trying to stay positive concerning the possibility of snes emulation. The reasons for which I bought the GP32 were based on misconceptions about its capabilities, if I knew the truth, I wouldn't have bought it, but that wasn't the case.

And I got some misinterpretations just like I expected.

I'm not telling the devs what to do! I'm simply stating my opinion on what we, the community (Which contains the devs), should start to go back and focus more attention on making the older emulators more perfect, so that the scene has a much better base. Its like saying that you feel the President should do xxx; what the President does is up to him, your not telling him to do xxx, you are just saying that's what you feel you he should do, just expressing your opinion.

I'm not trying to criticize anyone here, and that's including Reesy. I said DrMD wasn't exactly perfect, you guys were pretty much saying it was, then I listed the reasons why I think it isn't perfect, then you guys suddenly say I'm making negative posts to Reesy <_< I know its a WIP, which is why I said this:
Again, I DO NOT HATE DrMD FOR THESE REASONS, I JUST THINK ITS NOT PERFECT BECAUSE OF THESE REASONS, AND I KNOW IT'S TOO EARLY TO CALL IT PERFECT, WHICH IS WHY I THINK THESE PROBLEMS WILL BE FIXED IN THE FUTURE.

You guys are getting my annoyed because you guys are constantly making these false accusations like how I'm hating on Reesy, and then people start to think these are true and start feeding off of them and start flaming me even more! Get your facts straight before you flamse, please!

And about my missing the nostalgia, how can I miss the nostalgia MAME, Speccy, Colecovision, etc. if I never played them in the past?

nos·tal·gi·a (n-stlj, n-) -
A bittersweet longing for things, persons, or situations of the past.

They are not part of my past, so there's no nostalgia.

trooper - Could you expand on how my expectations of coders is too high? BTW, I really appreciate the fact that you are responding to my posts calmly and without flames, unlike other people...

Could we just stop the flames, please? They all seem to be based on XXX's misinterpretation of my post. We all just need to calm down here a bit and stop flaming me :D
 
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Not flaming you, just making points. Like I said, I enjoyed reading thro the thread.

Not your fault you don't get the nostalgia of the thing! Just saying that its a big part of the attraction for me.

Using the president (small p) analogy is a bit odd, we didn't vote for Reesy (although I would have done! :D ). Seriously, we should be grateful to them, and choose our words carefully. The thrill is surely in seeing emus develop (not that I know, I'm such a newbie).

About donating, I think we should if we can. If the devs ask for it, then we should-but only if and how much we can. And if people want to boast about it, it isn't cos they are polishing their halo (we will never meet face to face), but to encourage others to do so. It made me guilty enough to donate what I could (not enough), so it does work. But a 15 year old should not be expected to donate.

Right, back to sm3!
 
@ Azure

As i already said in my post about the pocket pc @ 400mhz compaired to the GP32 @ 166 (overclocked). How far do you expect the coders to be able to push snes emulation on the GP32, When the ppc has problems @ 400mhz and you keep mentioning the word perfect, Which will never happen on the GP32.

Trooper
 
trooper posted on Mar 12 2005 at 02:48 PM said:
@ Azure

As i already said in my post about the pocket pc @ 400mhz compaired to the GP32 @ 166 (overclocked). How far do you expect the coders to be able to push snes emulation on the GP32, When the ppc has problems @ 400mhz and you keep mentioning the word perfect, Which will never happen on the GP32.

Trooper
I expect the games to be running at full speed with sound at 166mhz at FS3-4, though I expect this quite a while from now, like at least 8-12 months from now. Wouldn't the GP32 come pretty close to emulating the SNES at full speed w/sound at 166mhz if it was at FS3 or FS4? 85% speed at FS4, maybe? What kind of problems does the Pocket PC have with PocketSNES? I thought speed wasn't really an issue with it (I thought compatibility was the biggest problem)? Keep in mind that by perfect, I mean most games (Obviously not games like Mario RPG, Mario Kart, F-Zero, etc.) at full speed w/sound, 166mhz, FS3-4.

BTW, one of the main reasons why I don't want to buy a PPC is because it seems like it would be a big waste of money; $300-$400 just for SNES emulation? And I wouldn't even have great controls either. I'd get the Zodiac, but its way too expensive. Will people be able to dev their own software on the PSP? I might get the PSP if theres a possibility for emulators on it, but I'm still leaning towards the DS mainly because of the fact that I would be able to play Mario 64 on the go (And, in the future, a Mario Kart 64 clone on the go).

EDIT: Another reason why I really wouldn't be able to donate: As I mentioned in that one thread about donations in the suggesstions forum, if I donated money, it'd probably be via Paypal, which means that the statement for the donation would appear on my father's credit card, and it would probably be something like GP32 Donation. I doubt my father would be too fond of my donating my money to some guy who makes video games for a $200 handheld (Actually, I spent nearly $300 when I got it) that I purchased.
 
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I actually see where Azure is coming from, to a degree.

I mainly grew up on the C64, with a tiny bit of Atari 2600 thrown into the mix. Personally i can play loads of C64 games and be happy, because the nostalgia comes flooding back and the same games which i played for hours on end once upon a time are still as enjoyable now due to past memories.

However, when it comes to say, the Colecovision or Speccy, i'm just not interested. Not because they are shit consoles (or even shit emulators) but because i just dont get that same kick of nostalgia because i never grew up playing them.

Due to having a dead GP32 BLU, i have no means to actually test these newer emulators. However, i was a member of the scene (with an original NLU) back in 2003, and i left the scene a few months after Frodo was released.
Even THEN, in the early days of GP32 emulation, i recall how utterly fucking brilliant some of the emulators were, and the key reason why i left was because it was killing me having to play C64 games with no backlight and not seeing what the hell i was doing.
So now i can only imagine how much the emulation has advanced in those 2 years since i've been gone, not just in the C64 department, but in other areas aswell.
At the time Genesis emulation was nothing but a dream, and i never imagined it would actually be done on the GP32.
My plans now are to hopefully buy a new GP32 BLU and finally get back into the scene again.

Also, name one other device currently released that you can buy for the same price as a GP32 and do the same amount of emulation on it. I can't think of one.
There is no better alternative for the same price as a GP32, it simply doesn't exist.
 
Drewus posted on Mar 12 2005 at 03:13 PM said:
Also, name one other device currently released that you can buy for the same price as a GP32 and do the same amount of emulation on it. I can't think of one.
There is no better alternative for the same price as a GP32, it simply doesn't exist.
Which is why I don't sell my GP32, even though you guys keep telling me that I might as well.
 
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