Discussion about SPM / Repo (Split from other topic)

[moxie]

Maybe someone should re-enable the actual page for SPM in the repo, but with a noticeable comment detailing the original problem (that it no longer works due to webserver changes) and the current problems (that it snarfs personal data)? There are people asking on the 4th floor FB page why it is not available, they get no answers, and my rights to comment seems to have been revoked, strangely enough...

 

[Znirk]

using PNDStore, I rarely came across any license informations using apps. Does this mean, playing a GPLed app, that the license (GPL) is invalid, because it wasn't shown me upfront?

The GPL is an unconditional license, not an agreement. GPL doesn't say "you have our license if and as long as you agree to the following terms". It simply says "we grant you our license to do this-and-that, but not some-other-things".


Doing this-and-that would be a copyright violation, but isn't because the GPL gives you the copyright holders' permission.


Doing some-other-things is a copyright violation either way, because you don't have the copyright holders' permisssion. Whether or not you've read the license is irrelevant here.


You could argue that the GPL is invalid unless it's been shown to you. That's fine: it simply means you can't legally do much with the software because you have no license. You can read the source code and even quote excerpts under normal copyright exceptions like Fair Use, but that kind of thing is all right (or ought to be) with people who use the GPL for their projects.


http://en.wikipedia....tractual_issues


http://lwn.net/Articles/61292/


http://www.gnu.org/l...ml#ClickThrough

 

[gruso]

There are people asking on the 4th floor FB page why it is not available, they get no answers, and my rights to comment seems to have been revoked, strangely enough...

Seems the whole page has now been revoked. Again.

 

[BaDToaD]

I don't think Streak's done anything terrible. Chances are he's not using the data he gets for nefarious purposes but I for one won't be using his software anymore, as I can't trust it. For the same reason I don't use Android apps that collect data they don't require. I find this very sad as Streak is a very talented individual.


I wish you well Streak and hope one day that you come to realise the Pandora Community is just that, a community! Why would you want to be seperate from the rest of us? This isn't some mega corporation forcing developers to do things their way. It's a group of like minded people that enjoy (or soon will) their niche product and the software that devs like yourself have created or ported.


Anyway all the best.


ToaD

 

[gadgetoid]

An EULA is only as binding as the legal muscle you've got to actually back it up. So all this debate about whether or not the license is valid and binding is pretty moot, as it would never be tested in a court.


Similarly, in a copyright infringement case you'd be very hard pushed to demonstrate your URLs, or use of CURL as being novel and worth protecting. And thus the dissemination of that information by a platform which is not, and by definition cannot be, bound by the EULA is not a violation of anything other than, perhaps, common courtesy.


Unfortunately, due to the presence of slightly nefarious practises within SPM, the common courtesy of adhering to your EULA is overridden by the far weightier responsibility to protect the community from such things.


Therefore, I would see it as inappropriate and even irresponsible for me to use moderator powers to interfere with this thread.

 

[EvilDragon]

This 'discussion' is making me sad.


Streak is obviously putting a lot of effort into contributing to the Pandora - maybe give him a break?


And just make a simple request:


Make the storing of username an option based on whether the user has signed an agreement (I guess made an account to access his repository)


Simple...or am I missing something else terrible that the fella has done?

Well, I think the issue is, that StreaK doesn't want to understand that collecting personal data like he did is simply a no-go.


No one accused him of doing this to cause any harm, mostly anyone was just trying to tell him what he shouldn't do and how to achieve the same stuff (like gathering statistical data) is possible in a proper and legal way.


If people would think he did this intentionally to collect as many usernames as possible and cause harm, then the reactions on this thread would've been A LOT different.


Basically, people are just telling him what he did wrong and how to do it right. No one was really aggressive against him.

 

[quartercast]

Warning to devs - you better do things our way, otherwise we will:


1. Chuck a hissy fit


2. Make abusive posts and call you names


3. Hack your work


4. Set up spoof accounts and post said works anonymously


5. Accuse you of nefarious activity

 

[Miner49er]

I just don't want to see a talented individual being scared off (well...pissed off) because he's choosing to do things slightly differently.


I remember something similar happening with Rockbox years ago - this guy bluechip was doing some seriously ace stuff but managed to pee-off some core-developers with his strong opinions and then dissappeared off the radar shortly afterwards. Shame...I still think there's a problem with the random function of Rockbox (still seems to pay the same songs over and over...)

 

[moz]

Warning to devs - you better do things our way, otherwise we will:


1. Chuck a hissy fit


2. Make abusive posts and call you names

Remind you of someone?

Spoiler

 

[Wally]

edit:


after a lot of thinking:..


I should really create new username just to make it more difficult to trace me up when i'll upload trojan in TinyBasic to official repo.

This quote sums up your intentions very well.. Thanks we'll keep an eye on you from now on. I'll think twice before installing one of your applications.

 

[EvilDragon]

I just don't want to see a talented individual being scared off (well...pissed off) because he's choosing to do things slightly differently.

Of course not. But a talented individual should also take advice from community members and NOT collect private data without at least letting the user know.

 

[Miner49er]

I just don't want to see a talented individual being scared off (well...pissed off) because he's choosing to do things slightly differently.

Of course not. But a talented individual should also take advice from community members and NOT collect private data without at least letting the user know.

My guess is that he's probably just being defensive and feeling that he's being 'got at'. I dunno, I always try and see the best in people I suppose.


You're absolutely right that he should take the advice from the community but I guess he's, like many of us can be, a bit stubborn.

 

[sebt3]

a bubble out of nothing... you should listen skeezix more...

 

[WizardStan]

Warning to devs - you better do things our way, otherwise we will:


1. Chuck a hissy fit


2. Make abusive posts and call you names


3. Hack your work


4. Set up spoof accounts and post said works anonymously


5. Accuse you of nefarious activity

OR!


You could listen when it is suggested that what you are doing is probably breaking the law because, other than this one particular infraction, you are generally a good person who does good work.


Prior to the "Streak is collection non-anonymous statistics without permission" fiasco, most comments were simply trying to understand the reasoning behind his choice to go it alone. Granted, there's that "Steak" guy who seems to have pushed too hard, but the actions of the group shouldn't be reflected by the one we have no control over.


Quite frankly, your strawman is insulting. If you want to defend Streak then do so, there are a lot of ground which you can use, but please don't cast aside legitimate criticism and genuine concern for potentially broken laws as "hissy fits"; doing so hurts everyone, Streak included.

 

[quartercast]

please don't cast aside legitimate criticism and genuine concern for potentially broken laws as "hissy fits"; doing so hurts everyone, Streak included.

By hissy fits, I was referring to the first half of this thread. By no means do I condone breaking the law.

 

[moxie]

On the other hand, this was discovered just because someone was throwing, as you say, a "hissy fit". Hissy fits, in the shape of "smelling something wrong and not giving up until the smelly pile is found" is a good thing.

 

[moxie]

And by that I mean, also: Responding to legitimate criticism the way StreaK does, is not a reasonable behaviour. To react by censorship (on the FB page) or closedowns (on the repo) when people come with rather normal complaints like "Your program writes where it shouldn't" or "Your program don't work on the latest HF" is rather non-constructive. And, in my mind at least, this constant work to avoid criticism and close in ones software is in itself problematic.


I was expecting something like this to come up eventually. I didn't expect it so fast, though.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

It must be noted that the username 'steak' came from another thread about 'streak'.Someone did a typo and spelled 'steak' instead.Gruso spotted it and thought it was funny.


Streak is simply enjoying making fools out of us and playing odd mind games and tis absurd at this point. 'Steak is streak.He maybe used a 3g dongle to access the net.Wouldn't this give one a different IP address and thus seem like a new user?

 

[pmprog]

There's plenty of ways to get another IP address... I completely ignored all that "hacking" bit.


Points that stand out for me though:

• The Repo, PNDstore, Panorama, and any other PND packager maybe should have an option for the PND owner to force display and acceptance of an EULA before allowing download (or execution)
  
• Streak threatened to release a trojan under a new "user". I don't know how serious he was, but something to be considered with uploads to the repo etc.
  

 

[Christoph.Krn]

a bubble out of nothing... you should listen skeezix more...

I would be writing "+1" now hadn't Google taken it over. This should do:


quote++;