Disable Post Count in Off-Topic or all together

[Wally]

Some might see this drastic but after a certain music thread was removed my point has been further proven that people are abusing  the forums for the sake of virtual internet "Post" points.

Some of the abusers may:
a ) Feel satisfied with themselves for fulfilling their post count targets
b ) May feel encouraged to continue behave the same way and post more annoying / irrelevant posts but spanning outside of Off-Topic.
c ) Expect moderators to move their spammy posts out instead of deleting / hiding them

This leads me to think that maybe we should begin to think about turning off post count all together as in many ways this would be beneficial for the community as such:

1) The forum will look less like a spam fest that it has been (and seriously, it's spiralling out of control)
2) We could expect new developers to join if we were seen to be a little more professional rather than a bunch of 12 year olds. Yes this is a little harsh but it's how some people act.
3) Threads will eventually start ending up on-topic as there's no need for those spammy people to post their spam inside non spammy threads. 
4) There may be less disagreement amongst people 
5) Moderators will not need to work so hard to split threads that have spiralled out of control due to an off-topic chain of discussion.

I have seen this in action at other forums but mostly disabling post count in Off-Topic which is very effective.

So my question is and infact this is tl;dr can we disable post counts for the aformention reasons?
 

 

[Nintendo]

I voted yes, but shouldn't there also be a poll "Is Wally doing an amazingly good job as mod"?
Prime Ministers have been removed (5 PMs in 5 years) from Australian Parliament quite easily enough, so mod removal shouldn't be too hard. Am I right, Wally?
Since, I live close to you in Melbourne...maybe you should have a real life meeting with me to discuss our differences?
Nah, what am I thinking...you're only good behind your computer.

EDIT: I also pm'd you.

 

[moxie]

I must say, I never understood the point of having a post count. At all. Get rid of it altogether, everywhere.

 

[Nintendo]

Post count or not, I'll still make 18-20 posts per day, because I've been here (and gp32x.de) for a long time now and I love the community here.Post count goes, I'll still be here posting away...If the community goes...I leave.

 

[Løra (Lolla)]

Ok ok, everybody calm down before it gets out of hand, please. 

Now, as this thread is about whether or not to disable post counts - I shall say that I don't think there's any need for post counts. 

Let's please discuss this respectfully, and not get personal/mean/threatening to one another.  We are, after all,  all members of the same community. Let's remember that. 

 

[Neelix]

I tend to doubt that just removing post count is going to be as useful as suggested here.  People who post for the sake of posting are still going to do so whether there is a visible post count or not.  I rather suspect that to get the intended effect you would also need to set the rules to be a lot stricter and enforce them ruthlessly.  

Giant in the Playground has such a system and it seems to work well there.  (one of the rules incidentally is that post count is a forbidden subject)

That said I don't think such a system would be a good fit here.

- Neelix

 

[Christoph.Krn]

1) The forum will look less like a spam fest that it has been (and seriously, it's spiralling out of control)

Potentially relevant reading material: The Game of Likes (Split from some thoughts thread) (Update)

I can not comment on the matter of post counts because I haven't investigated it, other than to say that during my regular reading of this forum, I've never perceived them as a potentially systematic source of noteworthy amounts of problems (unlike "Likes", see above thread).

 

[ZXDunny]

shouldn't there also be a poll "Is Wally doing an amazingly good job as mod"?

I think that to be perfectly honest such a poll would be overwhelmingly in favour of Wally as the mod who does his job best. He's friendly, he considers what he's doing and then by golly he goes ahead and gets it done. He's always been fair, he never once took offence when I told him to eff off when he warned me about trolling and he's just an all-round good egg. 

If there are people on the forum that don't see him that way then I suspect the problem is theirs rather than his.

Edit:

Remove the post count; it's a pointless metric. Well, no, it's not - it has one use: If a new user wanders in and asks for advice, then he/she can look at the post count and determine whether or not the replies are worthy of their attention if the reply came from a user with a high post count (and thus have been around longer and gained more experience). 

Of course, that kind of assumes that people haven't been artificially inflating their post count rather than actually gaining relevant pandora knowledge.

D.
 

 

[rygD]

I see no point in a post count.  Posting frequently doesn't mean anything other than that that person posts frequently.  Another forum I visit disabled post counts for reasons probably related to bullying newbies or some form of supposed authority or demands for respect of those with a high post count that they witnessed in a related forum.  They also do not allow deleting (and possibly editing, don't remember) posts due to how it had been abused and how things were changed to cover up things by people who were trying to take advantage of others (possibly scamming, but at the very least screwing over customers).  It seems better for it, but that is probably as a response of the people in charge there, and not wanting to be like "the other one".  They also have a general rule of not allowing name changes, however I think there may be exceptions for some extreme reasons.

I am not saying things here should be like they are there, but it cuts down on some of the shady things.

 

[thatgui]

I voted no,
I personally don't care for post count (or likes and all that crap) but I don't see it hurting anybody either. That music-thread may got out of hand, so what ? Some mod magic : warning, maybe as a last resort deleting some of the spam, and everythings fine. Why make up a problem were there isn't really one ?

Edit:
@Zxdunny
I disagree in both points:
1) Wally is a little too fast closing threads for my taste
2) Post count isn't an inidcator for a comments quality - I already made over 2500 posts, I don't want to know how high the nonsense rate is (85%,90%,...)

 

[Linux-SWAT]

I think removing post count will lead to less spam.
As a recent example, user B stopped spamming as user A was back in the game with an incredible amount of posts.
So numbers matter to them, removing them will help.
 

 

[Nintendo]

@Linux-SWAT

Did you read what I said in this thread?

 

[comradekingu]

Id venture a guess that it was you that removed said thread, wally? Which proves, along with a number of other locking, removing and autosaging efforts, nothing. At least insofar as your point goes. Or what point you are trying to make of it.

This has to be the third thread I see about this, that I ideally shouldnt have seen. Its counterproductive.

Sony, and stringoi, tend to be verbose, ok, that is not the general problem. Not being able to talk to them in a manner that is effective is. If you want a professional forum, it starts with being professional about making it so.

The rules of this forum, you made. I've been given a warning point for reporting on only those. So I don't. Meanwhile the signal to noise ratio could be better, we agree there.

I have no problem with different people, and accept that people are different, for good and bad. 
What happens when you route around the problem could just as likely be that the non-topical nature of off-topic, from the people who abuse it to raise their postcount, (the behaviour you seek to route around), instead move that to the on-topic discussion.

Using absolute power on people where they are, be it in the topical or non-topical part, doesn't actually improve the nature of either. Granted, thats the part that I see, as a user. One that has had much success sending pm's to people where I see problems.

I have some threads that are very much on topic, that I go through often enough. The readability would be greater if most of the questions could be on pm, and the off-topic stuff was at least hidden. My threads are just as different as the behaviour that I don't want in them.

With the threaded nature of this forum, it would suffice to respect the whishes of the threadstarter and the nature of the post.

We have great developers, what makes it a great community is the different people of all sorts.

Mind-idling posts, fits of bad moderating, posts that are too long, we all have something.

 

[Ziz]

shouldn't there also be a poll "Is Wally doing an amazingly good job as mod"?

I think that to be perfectly honest such a poll would be overwhelmingly in favour of Wally as the mod who does his job best. He's friendly, he considers what he's doing and then by golly he goes ahead and gets it done. He's always been fair, he never once took offence when I told him to eff off when he warned me about trolling and he's just an all-round good egg. 

If there are people on the forum that don't see him that way then I suspect the problem is theirs rather than his.

Edit:

Remove the post count; it's a pointless metric. Well, no, it's not - it has

oneuse: If a new user wanders in and asks for advice, then he/she can look at the post count and determine whether or not the replies are worthy of their attention if the reply came from a user with a high post count (and thus have been around longer and gained more experience). 

Of course, that kind of assumes that people haven't been artificially inflating their post count rather than actually gaining relevant pandora knowledge.

D.

You mentioned it. Here are many people with a big post count just having opinions or making videos, but having no clue about deeper details. However I still think the post count is an indicator / heuristic for the quality of a post. Especially if more than one person answers.

 

[rygD]

I have some threads that are very much on topic, that I go through often enough. The readability would be greater if most of the questions could be on pm, and the off-topic stuff was at least hidden. My threads are just as different as the behaviour that I don't want in them.

I can understand, but do not agree with, off topic posts/discussions being a problem for some people.  (Kind of like your post, and this reply.  Not really related to the actual topic of this thread.)  If you want something that is completely sterile and tigntly controlled like that, make a blog.  

That anyone would even think to say "ask questions in private, you are making my thread messy" is one of the stupidest things I have read related to trying to keep things informational.  Many people won't ask questions either way, however if people ask them where everyone can see others know they are not alone, and if it turns out to be a problem many are having this can draw attention to the question/problem/confusion.  Additionally, questions that are public allow others to respond, and make it more likely that false or incomplete information will be identified.  Really, though, the biggest benefit of not asking questions in a PM is that everyone sees the question and answer, which spreads the information wider, and people that show up 3 years later can see the answer.

 

[levi]

What does the op mean by 'disable' with reference to posts in off-topic?  Does he mean to hide them there, so they're not shown, or does he mean that posts there shouldn't count towards your overall post count?

If the former, I vote for hiding the post count in all contexts.  However, if it's possble to not count off-topic posts towards the post count number, it may still have some value.  We still need a way to encourage people to post useful comments in useful threads, and if that's it then it can stay.

 

[rygD]

Do some people seriously give value to their post counts?  I noticed that the poll results have nearly 25% in favor of keeping them, albeit with a very limited pool of voters.  If the post count is what motivates some people to make posts it might be worth keeping, however that seems to be the issue Wally is trying to address, as he, and maybe others, seems to feel that the post count is used by some to focus on quantity instead of quality of content.  As someone who probably posts too frequently I can say that eliminating post count will not change the frequency with which I post (and many will still be pointless).

A further explanation of how post count is an artificial measurement is that there are many people with a greater technical comprehension than those that do post here.  If one of these people joins they will start out with a post count of 0, yet they know more than some with thousands of posts in the fields in which they have extensive knowledge.  For Pandora/Pyra specific knowledge, there are those that lurk, rarely posting.  In that case, wouldn't the join date be more important than post count?  I don't think so, as there are also those that never join.  I was looking into the Pandora from early on, and didn't join here until I bought one years later.  There are probably others that have been following much more closely than I did, and have practical experience gained through their own experiences in using a Pandora, as well as more general skills and experience, yet they have never joined.

What does the op mean by 'disable' with reference to posts in off-topic?  Does he mean to hide them there, so they're not shown, or does he mean that posts there shouldn't count towards your overall post count?

If the former, I vote for hiding the post count in all contexts.  However, if it's possble to not count off-topic posts towards the post count number, it may still have some value.  We still need a way to encourage people to post useful comments in useful threads, and if that's it then it can stay.

It seems to me he wants posts in the Off-Topic section to not increase post count.  The problem I see with that is that anyone who really cares about their post count enough to artificially inflate the numbers would just turn to the sections where it is counted to increase the numbers.  That makes me think it really should be all or nothing, as the "problem" will spill over into other areas.  But how many of these people are there, really, and are they causing any problems?  We all do and say things that bother others.  Perhaps there is a better way to encourage useful posts, such as by adding additional titles.

Maybe "I don't care" should have been a choice in the poll.  I still don't think post count has much value.
 

 

[Linux-SWAT]

@Linux-SWAT

Did you read what I said in this thread?

Well, you actually posted nothing.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

I voted yes, but shouldn't there also be a poll "Is Wally doing an amazingly good job as mod"?
Prime Ministers have been removed (5 PMs in 5 years) from Australian Parliament quite easily enough, so mod removal shouldn't be too hard. Am I right, Wally?
Since, I live close to you in Melbourne...maybe you should have a real life meeting with me to discuss our differences?
Nah, what am I thinking...you're only good behind your computer.

EDIT: I also pm'd you.

Assuming there's no joke smiley there, this is the kind of post that should not happen.

 

[levi]

It seems to me he wants posts in the Off-Topic section to not increase post count.  The problem I see with that is that anyone who really cares about their post count enough to artificially inflate the numbers would just turn to the sections where it is counted to increase the numbers.  That makes me think it really should be all or nothing, as the "problem" will spill over into other areas.  But how many of these people are there, really, and are they causing any problems?  We all do and say things that bother others.  Perhaps there is a better way to encourage useful posts, such as by adding additional titles.

I'd hope moderators would feel more able to deal with content-free posts in other sections more easily if they were causing problems for other users.  And other sections don't have threads in with such open questions as 'What are you listening to' right now, which doesn't ask any questions about quality.

That's even if the behaviour in that thread was problematic.  Personally I'd given up on that thread a long time before once I discovered that many people here have musical tastes rather incompatible with my own, but that's not a problem.  Note I haven't checked all the videos posted before the lock, but I assume they're not offensive in and of themselves.

I'd tend towards supporting the idea of making posts in o/t not count towards the post count, I think.  Although I note that Board Issues/Improvments is in Off-Topic, perhaps posts there should count, or perhaps we especially don't want people spamming answers, and the voting/liking that goes on in there is enough.