Designing The Gp2x's Successor - Hardware Selection Poll

[Squidge]

Hmmm, seems that Epicenter didn't read my PM properly, even though it's now pretty useless considering the fact that nothing is going to be done about it.

Remind me next time not to bother replying

 

[Epicenter]

Hmmm, seems that Epicenter didn't read my PM properly, even though it's now pretty useless considering the fact that nothing is going to be done about it.

Remind me next time not to bother replying

With the specifics you gave me and research I did on the 2D capabilities of the GPU in question, you should've been able to get away with full speed operation without too much difficulty. Maybe Craig decides to take my advice and go with the 'Option 1' SoC I mentioned, for anyone curious it's the Samsung S3C2460. That'd be nice, as it'd result in a pretty amazing machine own the road, and we'd assuredly see some amazing things from it.

 

[Vollgasasi]

i'm requesting a touchscreen..... real time strategy goodnes.....mmmmmm .. it's a must have. and i think by the time the gp4x comes out, a 300 or more mhz processor is required (and not expensive anymore) and a dedicated gfx processor has to be in the unit.

 

[hitbyambulance]

all i had to hear were the magic words "native execution of Java code" wheee

 

[Magnulus]

"FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND ALL THAT IS HOLY, MY ANUS IS BLEEDING!!!!"

Didn't know you were a Hertzfeldt fan, Kaku. ^_^

 

[iignotus]

"FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND ALL THAT IS HOLY, MY ANUS IS BLEEDING!!!!"

Didn't know you were a Hertzfeldt fan, Kaku. ^_^

It hertz in the beginning, but by the end of the day, it feldt good.

 

[nubie]

The last 'which hardware should a GP2X successor have' was a disaster with suggestions like 2 GHz Athlon 64 processors and GeForce 7800GTX GPUs and had no basis in reality.

I don't recall saying that, or reading it, must have missed it if it was mentioned.

I voted number 3, actually a modified number 2.

The 400mhz ARM9 and a Goforce 4800(already in the Razr cellphone), or 5500 ideally, the goforce is much more than a 3D chip, it is a handheld multimedia processor much like the MMSP2, except it has no processor, so we would get a 300-400mhz ARM9 and use that for the core, and the 2D acceleration is fully there for anyone needing it, also OpenGL ES is supported for quick porting or coding from scratch.

The 5500 has a hardware mpeg4(Divx Xvid are hacked versions of Mpeg4) decoder, and I believe is available for $20, I don't know how this adds in price-wise, but I would be willing to pay $20-40 more for the console with this chip in it. This way means we get to use a Single high-clock ARM9 if we want for the heavy processing.

goforce 4800 2D processing:

64-BIT 2D GRAPHICS ACCELERATION

* BitBLT with 256 three-operand raster operations
* Mono and solid pattern
* Mono-to-color expansion
* Mono source/pattern transparency
* Destination read/write color transparency
* All angle (Bresenham) line draw
* Rectangle fill

goforce 5500 2D processing:

64-BIT 2D GRAPHICS ACCELERATION

* BitBLT with 256 3-operand raster ops
* Video scaling with range of 8x expansion to 1/64 th contraction
* Mono and solid pattern
* Mono-to-color expansion
* Mono source/pattern transparency
* Destination read/write color transparency
* All-angle Bresenham line draw
* Rectangle fill
* Image/Video Rotation
* Alpha Blending

 

[wipeout2000]

All i ask is for wifi. That way we can actually do multiplayer somehow.

 

[Shikaku]

All i ask is for wifi. That way we can actually do multiplayer somehow.

Just make an attachment like the GP32 has, that's all you need!!!

 

[Epicenter]

The 5500 has a hardware mpeg4(Divx Xvid are hacked versions of Mpeg4) decoder, and I believe is available for $20, I don't know how this adds in price-wise, but I would be willing to pay $20-40 more for the console with this chip in it. This way means we get to use a Single high-clock ARM9 if we want for the heavy processing.

Not that it probably matters anymore, but I doubt you could really purchase a chip with such a robust featureset for $20. Maybe in quantities of a million? :rolleyes: In the quantity the GP2X or its successor would be made I wouldn't expect to be able to pull that off with an acceptable price. At any rate it'd require a good bit of engineering to get a discrete ARM processor and a custom multimedia IC working together nicely; money I don't believe GPH has to throw around. Hence their affinity for SoCs..

 

[Squidge]

Of course we all want the fastest machine around, but don't forget we have to balance performance and battery life here, people. Sticking a 400Mhz ARM9 and a GoForce3D chip in there is going to suck a lot of juice compared with a SoC that has it all in one chip at a slightly slower clock rate (Option 1). I doub't people want to put fuel cells or lithion ion batteries in the gp3x or whatever just yet, so we are just with what 2 - 4 AA batteries can provide, and the GP2X is already at the limit.

BTW, I noticed yesterday that Maplin were selling 4xUniross 2500mAh for just £7.49 - seems pretty cheap to me, even though I don't normally buy Uniross as I think they are a pile of poo.

 

[Epicenter]

Of course we all want the fastest machine around, but don't forget we have to balance performance and battery life here, people. Sticking a 400Mhz ARM9 and a GoForce3D chip in there is going to suck a lot of juice compared with a SoC that has it all in one chip at a slightly slower clock rate (Option 1).

Indeed, especially when that SoC is rated for a maximum power draw of just 200mA at 1.8V. I believe that'd come in under the GP2X's MMSP, even. More advanced fabrication process than 130nm is probably to thank.

 

[cxzuk]

I think that there is so many people in this forum that know what there talking about, GPH would be stupid not to make the design proccess for the GP3x "Open source" as well.

I suggest, and HOPE that GPH (in a few years when they decide to make a new handheld) Post some of there final specifications here, so people can tell them there fews and comments. Even help get the best machine with the limitations there is.

GPH would get free development help, patents and such as a pain in the ass but if they release only a limited about of information, I think it would pay off.

Mike

 

[Squidge]

I think the problem with the gp2x is that gph didn't think enough about the power requirements. The MMSP2 can be a very efficient chip, but when you have several always-on voltage regulators and the like as well as other electronics and IC's that need not be always-on, it kinda wastes battery power.

 

[pcklee123]

in 3 yrs time some thing like this would be quite affordable http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM11MPCo...iprocessor.html
Something really simple to program. raw power without special chipsets. GP2X is OK but there are still many things which the casual porter cannot handle. e.g squidge mmu hack , accessing 64mb, using the 940 ...

 

[Clad]

I would be option 1, with few additions :

- The next one won't be before at least two years, until there ARM 400Mhz will be cheaper (my PDA is 566Mhz already !) and we could have a stronger CPU power, in addition to a cheap and energy-efficient rudimentary 2D/3D accelerator.

- No second CPU please ! Most of us aren't professional devs, we neither have the time, the skills nor the number of people software companys do have ! One CPU is much easier to code, even if they are more smartly linked than the two on the GP2X.

- A 640x480 screen would be great ! Could be a bit expensive though, but would definitly worth it. For emus, the hardware can resize without perf loss anyway, and 200x2mhz can read & resize movies of even higher resolution, 400Mhz being better than 200x2mhz, movies could be played in high rez.

- No proprietary batts please ! With 2 Li-on AA we already can each something like 10 hours full charge. Let's say that 400Mhz use as much as 2x200, and that FPU + GPU would use as much power as all the other hard (backlight, screen...). I am deliberatly overestimating the power-usage increase, but still we could have the same/better battery life with 4 AA instead of 2.

- No Wifi or any other wireless device ! It would increase the price and the power consumption for little to no use. Maybe an officiel accessorie via USB or SD port for those who really want to play online, but I'm sure most people don't care about it.

 

[telegramguy]

i'm requesting a touchscreen..... real time strategy goodnes.....mmmmmm .. it's a must have. and i think by the time the gp4x comes out, a 300 or more mhz processor is required (and not expensive anymore) and a dedicated gfx processor has to be in the unit.

Touchscreens are a great alternative to the mouse. Emulating the older computer systems like amiga, atari st, and mac is painful with the joystick.

 

[murak]

I totaly agree that GPH should not release another handheld just yet and I dont think that they will. But, this kind of thread may be very confusing for buyers looking into the GP2X. IF you feel scared, don´t.

That aside I think this is one of the most interesting post I´ve read in a long time! Hardware is just so much fun! Voted NO#1 Optional WiFi and a proper old-style D-Pad would also be nice.

 

[Vollgasasi]

i'm requesting a touchscreen..... real time strategy goodnes.....mmmmmm .. it's a must have. and i think by the time the gp4x comes out, a 300 or more mhz processor is required (and not expensive anymore) and a dedicated gfx processor has to be in the unit.

Touchscreens are a great alternative to the mouse. Emulating the older computer systems like amiga, atari st, and mac is painful with the joystick.

yea and imagine age of empires clpne, c&c clone etc.. scummvm with touchscreen! fun minigames like the ones you see on the ds. a touchscreen gives you so many opportunities.

 

[Epicenter]

- The next one won't be before at least two years, until there ARM 400Mhz will be cheaper (my PDA is 566Mhz already !) and we could have a stronger CPU power, in addition to a cheap and energy-efficient rudimentary 2D/3D accelerator.

A 200 MHz ARM9 is very competitive in the consumer electronics market is what a lot of people don't realize. High-end PDAs use things like '624 MHz' XScale processors that actually provide performance that is HALF that per clock tick of a true ARM9; yielding performance that's actually about that of a 312 MHz ARM9! Most GP2X units can overclock nearly that far. A 266 MHz part is quite beefy, a 400 MHz one even more so.