"Practice without theory is blind. Theory without practice is sterile." -- Karl Marx
Both are needed if you want to do things right.
Both are needed if you want to do things right.
"Deep" thoughts on Socialism and Capitalism... (Split from retux thread)
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ekianjo
Hardcore Member
That's also precisely why Communism / Socialism fails in real life. Well said Karl!
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Like all those "failing" Scandinavian countries...That's also precisely why Communism / Socialism fails in real life. Well said Karl!
Caine
Hardcore Member
Let's not make this a political discussion. Take that stuff to a thread of its own.
ekianjo
Hardcore Member
Looks like you don't know how much tax they pay, and you did not take in account the fact that they have very small populations in the first place. Anything larger would collapse like all developed countries which tried Communism/Socialism on a large scale.Like all those "failing" Scandinavian countries...
Parenthesis closed.
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And having a dictatorship instead of a democracy or republic had nothing to do with the failings you are most likely referring to...Looks like you don't know how much tax they pay, and you did not take in account the fact that they have very small populations in the first place. Anything larger would collapse like all developed countries which tried Communism/Socialism on a large scale.Like all those "failing" Scandinavian countries...That's also precisely why Communism / Socialism fails in real life. Well said Karl!
Parenthesis closed.
Curly brackets closed.
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ElPoco
Hardcore Member
Capitalism is failing in real life as well.
It was supposed to get everyone richer, but inequality has been steadily rising in the capitalistic world, even more so in more liberal countries.
It was supposed to get everyone richer, but inequality has been steadily rising in the capitalistic world, even more so in more liberal countries.
Caine
Hardcore Member
I don't think that making everyone richer is actually the goal, but even if it is then rising inequality does not even contradict that.
Suppose that, due to capitalism, my salary doubles and yours triples. We both became richer, yet inequality has increased.
<edit>Naturally, assuming an equal starting salary.</edit>
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bzar
A Commando
Yes, removing inequality, raising the minimum standard of living and providing everyone with free basic services through government action requires more taxes. That's a given. You may have your reasons for not seeing it worth the cost, but that money is needed is self-evident.
You continuously use the expression "communism/socialism". These are two separate things. Do you mean the specific combination of the two with this notation?
myNewUsername
Member
Social democracy != socialism. There are no "socialist" scandinavian countries.Like all those "failing" Scandinavian countries...That's also precisely why Communism / Socialism fails in real life. Well said Karl!
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Social Democracy is a form of socialism by definition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
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myNewUsername
Member
If you follow the "nordic model" link in your reference, you see the systems are capitalist combined with a large government sector. It may be wrong to call it social democracy though.
Edit:
"in the context of the Nordic model, "social democracy" refers to a set of policies intended to improve capitalism as opposed to a system to replace capitalism."
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Well that exact quote from the article states:
"Alternatively, social democracy is defined as a political ideology that advocates a peaceful, evolutionary transition of society from capitalism to socialism using established political processes.[7]"
myNewUsername
Member
i am not arguing what social democracy is or is not, but i am arguing that the norwegian, danish and swedish models are classified as capitalistic and not socialistic. My impression is taht many americans think this is not so, possibly because of the taxes and the welfare system. you are talking about communism/socialism in the same sentence as "scandinavian countries", and that really dont make sense... Socialism? Maaaaaaybe, but but not communism/socialism.
I think you missed my ninjaedit, follow the nordic model link.
I think you missed my ninjaedit, follow the nordic model link.
Social democracy is the ideology where we go from capitalism to socialism via gradual reforms.
Most of the social democratic parties -- e.g. (New) Labour, PS, SPD, etc -- have betrayed their original ideology and have been implementing neoliberalism with varying amounts of social rhetoric.
There are various other ideologies that are socialist. Besides the reformists, there are also revolutionary ideologies. I'm a democratic socialist myself.
Most of the social democratic parties -- e.g. (New) Labour, PS, SPD, etc -- have betrayed their original ideology and have been implementing neoliberalism with varying amounts of social rhetoric.
There are various other ideologies that are socialist. Besides the reformists, there are also revolutionary ideologies. I'm a democratic socialist myself.
Caine
Hardcore Member
Socialists are thieves, nothing more nothing less.
They make up all kinds of rhetoric to pretend their theft is more ethical than the common mugger, but it's not.
They make up all kinds of rhetoric to pretend their theft is more ethical than the common mugger, but it's not.
bzar
A Commando
The Nordic model has a capitalist social market economy with a high level of state-provided services. Funnily enough, the same social market economy is mentioned in socialist models. You can't really definitively say it's one or the other.Wikipedia said:
What the nordic model is NOT is communist.
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All economic ideologies except pure anarchism are based on "theft".
If you say that socialists are thieves, then in a sense you are right. Just like capitalists are thieves. The main difference is that socialists steal from the rich.
You know what capitalism is? Getting fucked.
Foxgod
Active Member
Socialism is about killing your own culture and promoting that of others, if you are fine with that, i suppose socialism rocks! thats the political side of it ofcourse.
The financial side of it is all about spreading the resources equally, this removes the incentive to do more then others, causing a shortage of docters and other much needed specialists.
With socialism everybody becomes equally poor in the end after a few century,s of booming economy.
Capitalism may not be perfect, but at least poor capitalists are richer then poor people of any other system.
The financial side of it is all about spreading the resources equally, this removes the incentive to do more then others, causing a shortage of docters and other much needed specialists.
With socialism everybody becomes equally poor in the end after a few century,s of booming economy.
Capitalism may not be perfect, but at least poor capitalists are richer then poor people of any other system.
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