"Deep" thoughts on Socialism and Capitalism... (Split from retux thread)


Let's not make this a political discussion. Take that stuff to a thread of its own.
 
"Practice without theory is blind. Theory without practice is sterile." -- Karl Marx
 
That's also precisely why Communism / Socialism fails in real life. Well said Karl! :D
Like all those "failing" Scandinavian countries...
Looks like you don't know how much tax they pay, and you did not take in account the fact that they have very small populations in the first place. Anything larger would collapse like all developed countries which tried Communism/Socialism on a large scale.

Parenthesis closed.
 
"Practice without theory is blind. Theory without practice is sterile." -- Karl Marx
That's also precisely why Communism / Socialism fails in real life. Well said Karl! :D
Like all those "failing" Scandinavian countries...
Looks like you don't know how much tax they pay, and you did not take in account the fact that they have very small populations in the first place. Anything larger would collapse like all developed countries which tried Communism/Socialism on a large scale.


Parenthesis closed.
And having a dictatorship instead of a democracy or republic had nothing to do with the failings you are most likely referring to...

Curly brackets closed.
 
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Capitalism is failing in real life as well.

It was supposed to get everyone richer, but inequality has been steadily rising in the capitalistic world, even more so in more liberal countries.
 
It was supposed to get everyone richer, but inequality has been steadily rising in the capitalistic world, even more so in more liberal countries.
I don't think that making everyone richer is actually the goal, but even if it is then rising inequality does not even contradict that.
Suppose that, due to capitalism, my salary doubles and yours triples. We both became richer, yet inequality has increased.

<edit>Naturally, assuming an equal starting salary.</edit>
 
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Looks like you don't know how much tax they pay, and you did not take in account the fact that they have very small populations in the first place. Anything larger would collapse like all developed countries which tried Communism/Socialism on a large scale.
Yes, removing inequality, raising the minimum standard of living and providing everyone with free basic services through government action requires more taxes. That's a given. You may have your reasons for not seeing it worth the cost, but that money is needed is self-evident.
You continuously use the expression "communism/socialism". These are two separate things. Do you mean the specific combination of the two with this notation?
 
Social democracy != socialism. There are no "socialist" scandinavian countries.
Social Democracy is a form of socialism by definition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
If you follow the "nordic model" link in your reference, you see the systems are capitalist combined with a large government sector. It may be wrong to call it social democracy though.


Edit:


"in the context of the Nordic model, "social democracy" refers to a set of policies intended to improve capitalism as opposed to a system to replace capitalism."
 
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Edit: "in the context of the Nordic model, "social democracy" refers to a set of policies intended to improve capitalism as opposed to a system to replace capitalism."
Well that exact quote from the article states:

"Alternatively, social democracy is defined as a political ideology that advocates a peaceful, evolutionary transition of society from capitalism to socialism using established political processes.[7]"
 
i am not arguing what social democracy is or is not, but i am arguing that the norwegian, danish and swedish models are classified as capitalistic and not socialistic. My impression is taht many americans think this is not so, possibly because of the taxes and the welfare system. you are talking about communism/socialism in the same sentence as "scandinavian countries", and that really dont make sense... Socialism? Maaaaaaybe, but but not communism/socialism.


I think you missed my ninjaedit, follow the nordic model link.
 
Social democracy is the ideology where we go from capitalism to socialism via gradual reforms.

Most of the social democratic parties -- e.g. (New) Labour, PS, SPD, etc -- have betrayed their original ideology and have been implementing neoliberalism with varying amounts of social rhetoric.

There are various other ideologies that are socialist. Besides the reformists, there are also revolutionary ideologies. I'm a democratic socialist myself.
 
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Socialists are thieves, nothing more nothing less.

They make up all kinds of rhetoric to pretend their theft is more ethical than the common mugger, but it's not.
 
i am not arguing what social democracy is or is not, but i am arguing that the norwegian, danish and swedish models are classified as capitalistic and not socialistic. My impression is taht many americans think this is not so, possibly because of the taxes and the welfare system. you are talking about communism/socialism in the same sentence as "scandinavian countries", and that really dont make sense... Socialism? Maaaaaaybe, but but not communism/socialism.
Wikipedia said:
Jerry Mander has likened the Nordic model to a kind of "hybrid" economics which features a blend of capitalist and socialist visions.
The Nordic model has a capitalist social market economy with a high level of state-provided services. Funnily enough, the same social market economy is mentioned in socialist models. You can't really definitively say it's one or the other.
What the nordic model is NOT is communist.
 
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Socialists are thieves, nothing more nothing less.


They make up all kinds of rhetoric to pretend their theft is more ethical than the common mugger, but it's not.
All economic ideologies except pure anarchism are based on "theft".

If you say that socialists are thieves, then in a sense you are right. Just like capitalists are thieves. The main difference is that socialists steal from the rich.
 
Socialists are thieves, nothing more nothing less.


They make up all kinds of rhetoric to pretend their theft is more ethical than the common mugger, but it's not.
You know what capitalism is? Getting fucked.
 
Socialism is about killing your own culture and promoting that of others, if you are fine with that, i suppose socialism rocks! thats the political side of it ofcourse.

The financial side of it is all about spreading the resources equally, this removes the incentive to do more then others, causing a shortage of docters and other much needed specialists.

With socialism everybody becomes equally poor in the end after a few century,s of booming economy.

Capitalism may not be perfect, but at least poor capitalists are richer then poor people of any other system.
 
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