GP32 Creating A New Game-console. Homebrew Project


I didn t read whole your post, but what I can say about Linux is that it s got a lot of free games for it, though these has to be ported to run on a portable device, as it s got an ARM9 processor and not a x86. In other words, if we could port Windows 95 to this device, the only thing it would do would be smacking a lot of bluescreens up in our faces, it wouldn t be able to run a single windows program at all...
Linux, if it will have Linux, is a choice made because it s a very good and OPEN OS.

Cheers
Talyz Prower

So you're saying that Windows is incompatible with ARM9 processors, and that Linux IS compatible? And Linux has a lot of free games. So, are these free games the kind of lackluster games that would be found on addictinggames.com, or something better?

EDIT: Oh, yes, and is there any way to get Windows games to work well with Linux?
 
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Maybe the GBA IS stronger than the SNES, but it doesn't matter. As I said, the GP32 is 166mhz, the SNES is 3mhz, that's 55 times more powerful. This is also FAILING to mention that the SNES is 16 bit, and the GP32 is 32 bit.
The number of bits is meaningless, and the X times more powerful is also fairly meaningless, especially in relation to the GBA which is fairly new, and the emulation of which is therefore pretty much in it's infancy. I don't doubt the GBA is possible, but it's not just a simple numbers game. Also, the SNES isn't just 3mhz. I believe it has two processors, operating simultaenously. So the GP32 isn't 55 times more powerful at all, even if that means anything.

If the GP32 can already do every other system (You better remember what I JUST said), then what is the next step? Low class PC games, and the consoles that were the generation afterwards.
Uh yes, but it can't already do every other system. It can do Mega Drive/Genesis very well indeed. But it can't do SNES very successfully, it can't do Amiga, it can't do Neo Geo, it can't do that wide a selection of Arcade games. Do you see where this is leading?
If it can't do anything new, then why should anyone buy it? Honestly, tell me why.

Because the above is new, for a handheld gaming console at least. If you don't want in then I don't care, but some people certainly would.

Didn't you see my huge fucking section on why the new system should have a hard drive? I gave the dimensions for a 20GB micro hard drive, and a link to buy one, to show a cost that could be put with the name. I specifically said, that it could hold
a minimum of 28 discs worth of information, with 350 extra megabytes left. This is assuming that each game is the full 700MB, which is the maximum that can fit on a Compact disc, so realistically, the number of discs would be much higher.
Too costly, too power consuming, too complicated. Not going to happen.

Who said that the source code is needed? Besides, how many old Linux games can you name that you would just love to play?
Good luck getting x86 code (am I doing this right, developers?) running on an ARM device.

Did you not see the recommendation of those Energizer batteries? Let me explain them AGAIN. Each one is 2200mAh, the entire battery for the PSP is 1800mAh. The PSP has a lithium ion battery that is outclassed by 18%, and that is a single AA. If there were say, 4 batteries, that would be 489% of the power in a PSP. Truly three minutes indeed, seeing as how the PSP constantly runs a disc, just as a hard drive does, and also seeing how the PSP has dedicated video memory, and also seeing how it is more powerful than a PS2, which would indicate a high current draw. Four, or even two of these batteries would be much more powerful than the battery from the PSP. And let's not forget, THEY RECHARGE IN FIFTEEN MINUTES.
No.
 
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I don't think you've got any chance of seeing this at less than a DS price simply because we don't have the contacts, it will not be produced in mass quantities (ask a company for 10,000 a year and you can get things at really good prices, and also can negotiate better prices later on (as they'll want to keep your business), but less than that and you seem to get screwed). Also, people like Nintendo can afford to make a loss on there consoles as they'll make the money on game licensing, something we can't do here.

I think the Zodiac console supports Neo geo roms, so maybe someone should try a few cps roms on that, and then double the frame rate to get a ball park figure of how well this new system would run them.

As for USB, I'd have it powered, but make it switchable, so it's only powered as and when you want it. Of course, if your going to have one host and one slave, rather than one doing both, then the switching doesn't matter, and being able to plug memory sticks/etc directly into the console will always be a big plus. I'm all for using a standard mini usb (the kind you get on card readers) rather than the gamepark version.

Also, has anyone thought about the future? SD cards are excellent now, but there is always the possibility that we may want to change them later to some new card type that could be released. Why not put all the file system stuff in the flash, and allow all applications to use it from there, rather than having to put it in every application? That would mean a reflash could give access to new media types without having to recompile any app's. The same could be done with useful graphics functions such as blitting operations - although this would be more for the reason of not having to include them in each application, so using up less ram. Use some decent 32-bit flash and you should have no problems with speed, so wouldn't need to copy them to ram to speedup access.
 
Did you not see the recommendation of those Energizer batteries? Let me explain them AGAIN. Each one is 2200mAh, the entire battery for the PSP is 1800mAh. The PSP has a lithium ion battery that is outclassed by 18%, and that is a single AA. If there were say, 4 batteries, that would be 489% of the power in a PSP. Truly three minutes indeed, seeing as how the PSP constantly runs a disc, just as a hard drive does, and also seeing how the PSP has dedicated video memory, and also seeing how it is more powerful than a PS2, which would indicate a high current draw. Four, or even two of these batteries would be much more powerful than the battery from the PSP. And let's not forget, THEY RECHARGE IN FIFTEEN MINUTES.

PSP battery = 3.6V with 1800mAh = 6,4W
2xmignon = 1.2V*2 = 2.4V with 2200mAh = 5,2 W
 
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wow this looks like it is gonna be fun,, i aint a dev or anything but i can say i fully support you alot and would donate to the R&D of this and then buy one if you ever get some made as i think that even if this only plays one system's games that a console built by a scene for a scene is a fairly special thing since most consoles have £1000's pumped into just the design of the things..good luck to you i say
 
Linux has many applications and also games, ok not all are great but i wouldnt use linux much for games. With a normal female USB Port (should be done only when there is enough space) you can do very much with it.
Also you dont have to port many apps, all debian packages are available allready compiled for ARM and perhaps we have zaurus compatibility (it uses Qtopia)... (then we have also many games for linux)

Neogeo should be possible, the dreamcast can emulate the neogeocd almost perfect, ok it has a GPU, but less ram and CPU power.
 
I think linux should just be an option rather then the firmware or BIOS, or whatever name that's going under, I think it should be flashable though, problems may be found with the initial firmware etc. I think 64MB ram is enough, but could settle with 32MB. And about USB, a standard female port would be best, but like I said earlier, people will settle with whatever. Onto buttons, I think there should be 4 face buttons, plus start and select, for the directional, a digital pad just like the GP32 would do nicely, and for shoulder buttons, I think it should have two on each side, with grooves on both to identify them by touch.
I know the case shouldn't be considered yet, but something really basic would do it, as long as it keeps the PCB inside and doesn't fall apart, I'm happy. And as for the price of this, I'd be willing to pay whatever's asked really.
 
Samsung make a nice 4" 16:9 480x272 LCD, but I can't find a model number for it anywhere.

I did find this though, it's a 4" 640x480 LCD - Toshiba LTM04C380K. Thin, low power comsumption. Would need an inverter for the backlight but they're easy enough to make. The only snag is that it doesn't use seperate HSync and VSync signals, it instead uses a composite sync signal which isn't what the LCD controller in the S3C2440 generates. It's possible to combine HSync and VSync but means yet more stuff on the PCB.

http://www.flatcontrol.com/sitedesign/shop...e/navi/?Lang=en

I've read that it uses a 31-pin FPC connector, similar to the one used in BLU units. The 0.3mm pitch FH23 connector should be compatible.

http://www.hirose-connectors.com/connector...rminalPitch=ALL

Edit: Pic

http://www.reloded.com/misc/Toshiba_LTM04C380K.jpg

640x480 might be overkill though...
 
I don't think you've got any chance of seeing this at less than a DS price simply because we don't have the contacts, it will not be produced in mass quantities (ask a company for 10,000 a year and you can get things at really good prices, and also can negotiate better prices later on (as they'll want to keep your business), but less than that and you seem to get screwed). Also, people like Nintendo can afford to make a loss on there consoles as they'll make the money on game licensing, something we can't do here.

You are at most right with what you say, but remember that we do most of the things ourselves, for that nintendo has many people. And we don't need to make big market-analyses, because we know what we want to have. ;)

Haiku OS

There is an BeOS-Clone in work, named Haiku OS. The original BeOS ran on an 233Mhz-BeBox very well. Haiku OS is excepted to be even faster, so it would run on an gaming machine with 400Mhz very good. :D It's in development and I heard it's not that hard to port it to different systems than x86. We wouldn't need the binary compability to BeOS because that just doesn't works because of the arm-processor. So we could even use it before binary compability is complete with the first version of Haiku OS. The first version won't have most of the "modern" effects, so we could have an really fast and responsive OS. As far as I know there aren't much games for BeOS (yet), but I think it would be perfect for different jobs. Haiku sure won't be released before 2007, so we would have some time.
 
I'm not insulting the programmers, I can't code shit, but what I am saying is that a SNES is 3mhz, and a GP32 is 166mhz.
You dont´t know anything about emulation do you? The GP32 has an even higher clockspeed than a Dreamcast, why not emulate it?

There is also the GBA, which is weaker than the SNES, so it should be no problem as well.
Actually the GBA is much more powerful than the SNES. It has a 16MHz 32bit-CPU.

This means that the new portable should have its own dedicated GPU for the newer systems.
They are impossible to get in small batches (you are invited to prove me wrong) they´re too expensive, would make stuff too complicated and aren´t needed for emulation

It doesn’t need a very good one to match the PSX and N64, so it wouldn’t cost much extra (PSX = 4MB video memory, N64 = 2MB without upgrade, 4MB with upgrade which is needed for some games).
Again, you don´t seem to know ANYTHING about emulation. An emulator emulates the WHOLE system, with all components (GPU too) by software, that means in the CPU. NO NEED FOR 3D ACCELTERATION IN EMULATORS!!!!!

1e. This leaves older computer games, now, with 400mhz and 128mb of RAM, dear god, this seems VERY enticing. It is definitely a great, great idea. BUT… you guys are considering LINUX!? This is TERRIBLE! There are almost NO Linux games, and they are even more limited by the fact that they must be very old games. Getting Windows 95 on here would be PERFECT. The only obstacle is making the PC games compatible with the new portable. Don’t worry about it being illegal either, it’s not like you don’t have games on your GP32s that your don’t actually own. It’s the same boat.
Oh yeah, just insert the Windows 95 Boot CD, and install it. Will work wonderfull...
ER, actually not.
Either you are a comedian or you don´t know anything about computers.
How do you plan to run Windows 95 on a system that has positively nothing to do with a PC?
OOh, right, you´ll gonna port it... Then hurry, get us the sourcecode (if you know what this is) and we´ll have windows on it, all thanks to Viperman...

2a. The batteries should definitely be AA. First of all, it sucks having a stupid internal battery that has to be charged, it cannot even be temporarily replaced. Secondly, if any of you were thinking of Lithium Ion batteries, they suck! Firstly, they cost a lot, which needlessly brings up the price (A pack of AAs costs four bucks, a hell of a lot cheaper).
You don´t know what you´re talking about. Do you know how a battery works? No? Well, i will just point out that if a common battery is drained with more than one tenth of its max. capacity per hour, it will drain much quicker. For instance, if a pair of common AA batterys with, say 2500mAh output 0.5Amp (yes, we need that much) they´re gonna be drained in approx. 30 minutes (and after that, you can throw them in the bin). You can, of course add more Batteries, but that would be 6 (six!!!) to maintain a decent durability.
And please note that it is very well possible to use changeable PDA batteries

c. This conflicts with what I saw as the main reason for going against the use of AAs in this portable, not enough voltage. Just use a transformer! Even if this were to draw too much current from the batteries, 4 of them could be used, and then the life would be longer.
Even more bullshit. A pair of AA´s can easily deliver the needed Voltage... but only for a couple of minutes (as pointed out above)

Every single system that has ever been made (excluding the PSP) was natively 4:3. Having a 16:9 screen messes all of that up.
Gameboy, Gameboy color, Neogeo Pocket, Wonderswan, Ngage etc... They all don´t have 4:3 screens.

Plus the PSP is stronger than the PS2
Does Stupidity hurt?

With newer systems, and PC games as well, 640x480 will definitely be needed in order for the game to not look like crap.
The Playstation, which you hope to emulate, has a resolution of 320x240... of course more would be nice, but don´t overdo it. Do you have a slight clue what those panels cost?

To sum it up: you don´t seem to know ANYTHING about the stuff you´re saying.

You don´t know much about software, electronics, gaming systems and so on.

This is no reason to be ashamed, most people are in your situation...
But please don´t bother us with your comments anymore, they´re not competent at all.
 
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Vimacs: Guys like me make you puke, so what kind of a guy am I, Mr. Psychologist? I'm sure you have me figured out completely after seeing me post five times (now six, but hey, you "knew" me before now didn't you?).

Mr. Mirko: I have no idea what the hell I was thinking when I said what I said about those batteries. Quite possibly the dumbest thing I have done in a very long time.

Viperman5686 said:
Didn't you see my huge fucking section on why the new system should have a hard drive? I gave the dimensions for a 20GB micro hard drive, and a link to buy one, to show a cost that could be put with the name. I specifically said, that it could hold
a minimum of 28 discs worth of information, with 350 extra megabytes left. This is assuming that each game is the full 700MB, which is the maximum that can fit on a Compact disc, so realistically, the number of discs would be much higher.
*
Too costly, too power consuming, too complicated. Not going to happen.

Too complicated? How is this any more complicated than running the connections for two SD ports?
Too much power being used? This i'm not sure about anymore, anyone have any input on how much power a 4200rpm laptop drive uses?
Too costly? Once again, this was in my first post that you failed to completly read. It costs $58 dollars (US), and it holds 20GB; Two 1GB SD cards cost $160 dollars (US). That's two gigabytes for 160 dollars, or twenty gigabytes for 58 dollars, now exactly which one is more costly?
 
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I didn t read whole your post, but what I can say about Linux is that it s got a lot of free games for it, though these has to be ported to run on a portable device, as it s got an ARM9 processor and not a x86. In other words, if we could port Windows 95 to this device, the only thing it would do would be smacking a lot of bluescreens up in our faces, it wouldn t be able to run a single windows program at all...
Linux, if it will have Linux, is a choice made because it s a very good and OPEN OS.

Cheers
Talyz Prower

So you're saying that Windows is incompatible with ARM9 processors, and that Linux IS compatible? And Linux has a lot of free games. So, are these free games the kind of lackluster games that would be found on addictinggames.com, or something better?

EDIT: Oh, yes, and is there any way to get Windows games to work well with Linux?
Yes and no. Linux IS compatible with ARM9 processors and HAS already been ported for use with THIS processor. As it is an open system it has a lot of FREE games and can also run a great amount of windows games trough Wine (Wine Is Not an Emulator)...
No, Im not saying that its because Windows is not compatible with ARM9 processors, if it was, we still wouldnt be able to run windows programs on it, as the PROGRAMS are made for running on an x86 processor. This means that if we have to port games for use on an ARM9 processor, it could be to Linux as well as Windows, but Linux is open and in all a better and more stable Operating System...
Also, the power of a device cant be measured in mHz, there are lots of other things that are important, such as CPU type and other components, like co processor and RAM...

Cheers :lol:
Talyz Prower
 
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just to clear up what should and should not be possible to emulate:


Common Home Systems:

Sega Master System : YES
Sega Gamegear : YES
Sega Megadrive : YES
Sega Saturn : NO
Sega Dreamcast : NO
Nintendo : YES
Super Nintendo : YES
N64 : NO
Gameboy : YES
Gameboy Color : YES
Gameboy Advanced : YES
Nintendo DS : (not sure, will check it's specs)
Sony Playstation : YES
Sony PS2 : NO
Sony PSP : NO
3DO : YES (with difficaulty tho)
SNK NEOGEO : YES
SNK NEOGEO Pocket : YES
SNK NEOGEO Pocket Color : YES
SNK NEOGEO CD : YES
Bandai Wonderswan : YES
Commodore Amiga 500 : YES
Commodore Amiga 600 : YES
Commodore Amiga 1200 : NO


Qusetionable Common Arcade Systems (i'm not going to go thru em all, there's 100's):

Sega System 16 (shinobi, goldenaxe, eSWAT etc) : YES
Sega System 18 (shadow dancer, moonwalker, dd crew etc) : YES
Sega System 32 (golden axe 2, rad mobile, holloseum etc): SLOWLY
Sega STV (die hard, virtua fighter remix etc) : NO
Sega Model 1,2,3 : NO
SNK old common hardware (p.o.w, street, smart, ikari warriors etc) : YES
SNK NEOGEO (fatal fury series, samurai showdown, metal slug series etc) : YES (depends on the ram)
Taito F2 (growl, football champ, liquid kids etc) : YES
Taito F3 (puzzle bobble 2+3+4, super football champ, landmaker) : SLOWLY
Taito B System and older (final blow, puzzle bobble etc) : YES
Taito G NET (night raid, rc de go, etc) : NO
Sammy SSV (survival arts, eagle shot golf) : NO
Midway Ultra 64 (killer instinct 1+2 only) : YES ~(with good coding)
Konami GX (lethel enforcers, rushing hero's etc) : NO
Konami GV (simpsons bowling, 80's gallery etc) : YES
Namco System 11 (soul edge, tekken1+2 etc) : YES (with good coding)
Namco System 12 (fighting layer, tekken 3, tekken tag, soul calibur etc) : NO
Capcom Play System 1 (final fight, street fighter2 etc) : YES
Capcom Play System 2 (street fighter alpha series, alien vs predator etc) : YES (depends on the ram)
Capcom Play System 3 (sf3 series, jojo series etc) : NO
Capcom ZN1(atlus psx, videosystem psx etc) (SFEX, toshinden, heavens gate etc) : YES (with good coding)
Capcom ZN2 (SFEX2 etc) : YES (with good coding)
Snow Bros style hardware (tumble pop, snowbro's, semicom stuff etc) : YES
ANYTHING OLDER THAN 1985 : YES
Sega Outrun based hardware (hangon, super hangon, outrun, space harrier etc) : NO (runs on 3 68000's :p )
TECMO Oldskool hardware (world gup 90, gemini wings, rygar etc) : YES
Technos hardware (double dragon series, WWF etc) : YES
Atlus Hardware (powerinstinct series etc) : YES :)
Sega System c3 (thunderforce AC, Puzzle and action series etc) : YES
that's about all i can be arsed typing ;) i'll add more when i can be bothered
 
so in the end we are here..
THE DEVICE WILL NOT HAVE A MAIN OS!!!
Just a bootloader which boots a kind of boot file of the sd named boot.elf.
Then you can decide what your use (i think its good this way)
put in your gamecard, with a small File browser as boot.elf or just put in your Linux SD card. so everyone can decide what he wants on his system.
you could also port Windows Mobile or CE, but you will never get ms to release it ;)
BeOS isnt that good either, you would have to port every app.
Linux is just the best if you want PDA style system, you can get most apps allready precompiled.

About the Display, 640x480 is to expensive i think, i wouldnt have a problem with 320x240.
its enough for everything i think.
 
I'm not insulting the programmers, I can't code shit, but what I am saying is that a SNES is 3mhz, and a GP32 is 166mhz.
You dont´t know anything about emulation do you? The GP32 has an even higher clockspeed than a Dreamcast, why not emulate it?

Me: Do you think i'm retarded? That doesn't even merit a valid response...


There is also the GBA, which is weaker than the SNES, so it should be no problem as well.
Actually the GBA is much more powerful than the SNES. It has a 16MHz 32bit-CPU.

Me: Oh, well excuse me, i'm sorry for underestimating the clearly awesome 16mhz power of the GBA.

This means that the new portable should have its own dedicated GPU for the newer systems.
They are impossible to get in small batches (you are invited to prove me wrong) they´re too expensive, would make stuff too complicated and aren´t needed for emulation

Me: I never said they were easy to get in small batches, you see, there is a hidden message beneath all this... I'm saying that if they really want to make a groundbreaking system, it will have to emulate the next generation of systems, which isn't cheap. And I know those chips aren't needed, but that doesn't mean that they don't help.

It doesn’t need a very good one to match the PSX and N64, so it wouldn’t cost much extra (PSX = 4MB video memory, N64 = 2MB without upgrade, 4MB with upgrade which is needed for some games).
Again, you don´t seem to know ANYTHING about emulation. An emulator emulates the WHOLE system, with all components (GPU too) by software, that means in the CPU. NO NEED FOR 3D ACCELTERATION IN EMULATORS!!!!!

Me: Once again, of course there is no need, that does not change the fact that it helps.

1e. This leaves older computer games, now, with 400mhz and 128mb of RAM, dear god, this seems VERY enticing. It is definitely a great, great idea. BUT… you guys are considering LINUX!? This is TERRIBLE! There are almost NO Linux games, and they are even more limited by the fact that they must be very old games. Getting Windows 95 on here would be PERFECT. The only obstacle is making the PC games compatible with the new portable. Don’t worry about it being illegal either, it’s not like you don’t have games on your GP32s that your don’t actually own. It’s the same boat.
Oh yeah, just insert the Windows 95 Boot CD, and install it. Will work wonderfull...
ER, actually not.
Either you are a comedian or you don´t know anything about computers.
How do you plan to run Windows 95 on a system that has positively nothing to do with a PC?
OOh, right, you´ll gonna port it... Then hurry, get us the sourcecode (if you know what this is) and we´ll have windows on it, all thanks to Viperman...

Me: Okay, I was wrong here, it wasn't as simple as I thought, i'll admit that.

2a. The batteries should definitely be AA. First of all, it sucks having a stupid internal battery that has to be charged, it cannot even be temporarily replaced. Secondly, if any of you were thinking of Lithium Ion batteries, they suck! Firstly, they cost a lot, which needlessly brings up the price (A pack of AAs costs four bucks, a hell of a lot cheaper).
You don´t know what you´re talking about. Do you know how a battery works? No? Well, i will just point out that if a common battery is drained with more than one tenth of its max. capacity per hour, it will drain much quicker. For instance, if a pair of common AA batterys with, say 2500mAh output 0.5Amp (yes, we need that much) they´re gonna be drained in approx. 30 minutes (and after that, you can throw them in the bin). You can, of course add more Batteries, but that would be 6 (six!!!) to maintain a decent durability.
And please note that it is very well possible to use changeable PDA batteries

Me: Refer to below

c. This conflicts with what I saw as the main reason for going against the use of AAs in this portable, not enough voltage. Just use a transformer! Even if this were to draw too much current from the batteries, 4 of them could be used, and then the life would be longer.
Even more bullshit. A pair of AA´s can easily deliver the needed Voltage... but only for a couple of minutes (as pointed out above)

Me: have no idea what I was thinking, maybe I need sleep, I don't know.

Every single system that has ever been made (excluding the PSP) was natively 4:3. Having a 16:9 screen messes all of that up.
Gameboy, Gameboy color, Neogeo Pocket, Wonderswan, Ngage etc... They all don´t have 4:3 screens.

Plus the PSP is stronger than the PS2
Does Stupidity hurt?

Me: What the hell are you talking about? It IS stronger. calling someone stupid because they are wrong about a single thing is stupid in itself enough, but then actually calling someone stupid because they were wrong about something when they were actually right is even dumber. Maybe you should read up a little more about the PSP. hmm?

With newer systems, and PC games as well, 640x480 will definitely be needed in order for the game to not look like crap.
The Playstation, which you hope to emulate, has a resolution of 320x240... of course more would be nice, but don´t overdo it. Do you have a slight clue what those panels cost?

Me: Yeah, they're expensive. Once again, the hidden message is me saying that I do not agree with the low price setting.

To sum it up: you don´t seem to know ANYTHING about the stuff you´re saying.

Me: Maybe I don't seem to know anything, but I actually do, seeing as how I make plenty of money off of building and fixing computers all the time.

You don´t know much about software, electronics, gaming systems and so on.

Me: No, see, I didn't know that an ARM9 processor wouldn't work with Windows, because I've never heard of it before. Do you know why I've never heard of it? Because I have no use for it. Knowledge only matters depending on the situation. Go to Africa and live with the tribesmen, you'll be the dumbest person there.

This is no reason to be ashamed, most people are in your situation...

Me: Yeah, you always see people building their own computers and fixing them for themselves. That's why ripoff companies like Dell and Gateway are still around selling prebuilt shitboxes, right?

But please don´t bother us with your comments anymore, they´re not competent at all.

Me: Oooh, I guess since I stepped out a little, i'm now a complete retard, and I should never speak again. It seems that the only way you can be happy with your responses is by making humor whether is is coherent or not.
 
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