Covid-19 (Coronavirus) - Please stay safe, y'all


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We agree 100%. I do not make any claims that I have free will beyond the basic parameters allowed to our species by our biology.
 
Well, you aren't wrong about the general antivax vs vaccine groupings. Vaccinations have proven effective and antivax concerns have mostly been proven inneffective in their pedictive power. If I got bit by a rabbid animal, you are damned right I would get my shots.

I think with CRISP and Gene Therapy technology, going forward, the conversation is going to become a problem.

The problem with CRISPR and designer babies is genetic pollution. You make one designer baby and that set of genes will be passed into the genepool and forever change our species genetic course in ways we cannot even imagine. You might say, at the level of one designer baby vs 7 billion people it's a wash. Roll the time forward 400 (okay, this isn't enough years, just play along) years forward, the technolgy has spread and every single human now has some small part of their genome defined by CRISPR changes, what have we done to our selves? Ever work on a very old very large codebase that has 10's of millions lines of code and has accumulated technological debt over the last 40 or 50 years ... what happens when our genes are now polluted in the same way? And, that is just the beginning of the designer babies conversation. My concern about genetic pollution assumes that the world is messy and this won't work very well introducing the need to label people around the world as gmo / vs non-gmo (seriously, this will happen if designer babies are allowed). The other side of the CRISPR designer baby story is that the technology not only works but works really well, then, this is the beginning of the Fourth Reich.

The problem with Gene Therapy is that the genetic modifcation technology can be deployed in all sorts of other ways, particularly using modified viruses to insert genetic change. What is to prevent gene therapy technology from making it into vaccinations? Is there even a distinction? Might warfare start to incorporate this technology? The same humans making terrible decisions today will be making terrible decisions tomorrow when this technology becomes more available.

The future is not going to be fun.
 
As far as I've been reading, a lot of these vaccines are being made using CRISPR and similar genetic splicing techniques. That's fine because that's not our genome, it's the genome of a virus, although the fact that the human genome is apparently full of useless crap that we picked up from old viruses seems to make that a problematic claim at first inspection. I guess the difference is that these vaccines don't have much of the stuff that makes viruses reproduce in them, they're only designed to give the T-cells a heads up on a shape to look out for in future, but I don't actually know how accurate my guess is there.

The way that virus code got into our genome when you think of it is early viruses as they were evolving produced viruses that correctly invaded our cells and inserted genes to make themselves, but they weren't effective enough to produce enough to burst the cell, and according to subsequent human evolution those genes have been modified to either become useful bits or been tweaked enough so they're rarely actually expressed. In an extremely simplistic sense, ineffective viruses sound quite like vaccines. More research needed.
 
Uhhh ... holy fuck: https://futurism.com/neoscope/potential-covid19-vaccine-hacks-dna-build-immunity

Dude. Like. What. The. Fuck.

I just posted some fucking speculation like what ... 6 hours ago? This article is from April so not exactly prescient of me ... but jesus fucking christ.

Yeah, I'm fucking done. My genome IS NOT a scratch pad for some fucking mad scientists. I am pretty sure that I am not understanding this technology, but, the directionality of this is just ... man.
 
for an alternate perspective, here is an article (https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/news/2018-01-chromosome-men.amp) about how the Y chromosome is deteriorating - and in 4M years may disappear. hacking our genome is what evolution is doing, but randomly and sometimes in the wrong direction.

this will also enable cat, reptile, and shark people sometime in the future, no cosplay required.
 
levi said:
To pick a couple of bits out the monster wall of text...

It's expensive to be a hunter; you have to be extremely fit which is actually still a life limiting tendency even now, you have to run around chasing things whenever you're hungry. Compare the life of a herbivore; the food is just there growing on trees, and you can pick it at your leasure. If only we were all herbivores, life would be much more pleasant, it's just those pesky carnivores that mean we have to breed so hard and rely on numbers.


These measures are already being taken away; the pubs and the hairdressers are open even as this virus rages locally to me. And this virus doesn't care if you're brave or not.
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One can argue that one generation before the French revolution was weak because they did nothing. Instead, I just think it was not time for that dam to burst. Like a wizard, it's not too early, not too late but at the moment it intends to.
About the evolution of similar species that differentiate into carnivores and herbivores. That is just "The TimeMachine" http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/35


Robert Taylor said:
Uhhh ... holy fuck: https://futurism.com/neoscope/potential-covid19-vaccine-hacks-dna-build-immunity

Dude. Like. What. The. Fuck.

I just posted some fucking speculation like what ... 6 hours ago? This article is from April so not exactly prescient of me ... but jesus fucking christ.

Yeah, I'm fucking done. My genome IS NOT a scratch pad for some fucking mad scientists. I am pretty sure that I am not understanding this technology, but, the directionality of this is just ... man.
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Something similar was posted in February. DNA insertion officially called immunoprophylaxis by gene transfer (IGT) or gene therapy. Test subjects were apes. Has been going on for quite a while. I have not been able to find more that rumors and speculations related to this and covid, for example (dead site?):

As a Christian this is a no-no, because I believe your DNA your book of life/blueprint-for-your-temple(=body) (not to be confused with the Lamb's book of life, which is the masterdatabase), and maybe not a tittle should be added or removed. Although through epigenetics we see that we still have to power to modify it, and even give those epigenetic markers to our offspring.

As a human, I fear a chain reaction: sickness X triggers expression of the inserted gene, which over reacts and produces too much, leading to inflammation and the body autoimmune response trying to also reduce these proteins. (duckduckgo: "cytokine storm")
Imagine being allergic to bee stings and getting stung. But the trigger is something obscure, for example: when you digest peanutbutter while sun hits your skin.

We also have this:
www.afr.com

How viruses have shaped our DNA

An evolutionary biologist says the scars of ancient epidemics are written in our genome – and finding out their causes may help us to predict the next pandemic.
www.afr.com www.afr.com
Which means our DNA would not evolve/respond to new virii as we would be doing that.

As eons go by, more and more errors add to our collective genomes.
So is it moral to remove our 60 average errors to live longer, healthier lives?
I mean, one of the errors has been found:
www.sciencedaily.com

Spina Bifida Gene Identified; Groundbreaking Research Can Make Diagnosis Easier

Researchers at McGill University have identified a gene that causes the debilitating developmental disorder spina bifida. "This is the first gene that has been shown to cause the disorder in humans," said Dr. Gros, whose lab has been studying NTDs in mice for over a decade.
www.sciencedaily.com
And how did this error get in our gene-pool? Most kids with this gene die, and should not be able to pass it on.
(insert theory of the Adamu, the worker slave, which was a quick'n'dirty patch up)

www.newsweek.com

Our Lifespan Could Be Predicted by the Mutations We Collect in Our DNA

Co-author Lynn B. Jorde of the University of Utah Health, said if the results from the small study are validated "it would mean that we could possibly find ways to fix ourselves and live longer and better lives."
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com

So say gene therapy becomes fashionable.
And if a family has less errors, their value for their offsprings during an arranged marriage goes up. Then we get the rich who are able to wipe the errors out of their genes, and the poor that can not. The rich, already not keen on marrying poor people, will avoid them even more. Demanding a DNA scan of prospects as proof. Then, the therapy goes down in price, but at the same time, there are better modifications, like being able to have photographic memory, which will have a high price because they are "luxury" gene modifications. Finally the upperclass will prevent laws from lowering the prices for "luxury" gene modification and have 2 classes. And a class in between, with mixed class parents, that tries to get into the top class. How did they get mixed top/bottom class? Intermarrying, or voluntary (not for money, but if it succeeds, you get to keep the patch) testing new gene patches.

And then... there were mandatory DNA patches. And one person that was forgotten, and somehow, there was nobackup, so his/her DNA contained the "rollback" to undo the latest failed patch (which delayed it's bug until everyone was patched already).

There, scifi book idea.
 
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You guys got it dead on I think. And, I suspect, that the genome cannot be rolled back the way software can even if a backup does exist.
 
Two quick to watch videos between Joe Rogan and Michael Osterholm who is an epidimiology expert:


That was in March, I don't know if anything has changed since then. Seems like a fairly broad set of opinions from someone who knows the field well.

The second link talks a little bit about face masks in what sounds like a balanced approach.
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ible said:
for an alternate perspective, here is an article (https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/news/2018-01-chromosome-men.amp) about how the Y chromosome is deteriorating - and in 4M years may disappear. hacking our genome is what evolution is doing, but randomly and sometimes in the wrong direction.

this will also enable cat, reptile, and shark people sometime in the future, no cosplay required.
Click to expand...

I have to admin, this was a pretty nice move. You took what I said and flipped it so that I would be pro genetic engineering in the face of extinction!

LOL. Did not see that coming.

Nice.
 
FBnil said:
As a Christian this is a no-no, because I believe your DNA your book of life/blueprint-for-your-temple(=body) (not to be confused with the Lamb's book of life, which is the masterdatabase), and maybe not a tittle should be added or removed. Although through epigenetics we see that we still have to power to modify it, and even give those epigenetic markers to our offspring.
Click to expand...

as a Christian myself, i don't agree with this one-size-fits-all approach (to Christianity). similar "religious" arguments were made against vaccines, but now wouldn't pass theological muster. but in many senses, if we can reduce human suffering, we should. we want to avoid other side effects (e.g., getting people to lose prefrontal cortex moderation). there are lots of things to worry about, so we should do it in a safe/slow way. but, if the only downside to a certain gene-editing approach is that you're no longer susceptible to disease A, then that's not something we should stop people from getting on religious grounds.

So say gene therapy becomes fashionable.
And if a family has less errors, their value for their offsprings during an arranged marriage goes up. Then we get the rich who are able to wipe the errors out of their genes, and the poor that can not. The rich, already not keen on marrying poor people, will avoid them even more. Demanding a DNA scan of prospects as proof. Then, the therapy goes down in price, but at the same time, there are better modifications, like being able to have photographic memory, which will have a high price because they are "luxury" gene modifications. Finally the upperclass will prevent laws from lowering the prices for "luxury" gene modification and have 2 classes. And a class in between, with mixed class parents, that tries to get into the top class. How did they get mixed top/bottom class? Intermarrying, or voluntary (not for money, but if it succeeds, you get to keep the patch) testing new gene patches.

And then... there were mandatory DNA patches. And one person that was forgotten, and somehow, there was nobackup, so his/her DNA contained the "rollback" to undo the latest failed patch (which delayed it's bug until everyone was patched already).

There, scifi book idea.
Click to expand...

honestly i think the future's going to be a lot weirder and more mundane at the same time. but i could see this being an attitude in certain countries, but not all.
 
But Vaccines arend that much diverent than the Natural Way: You take a Virus, make it Harmless, and put it in a Human so its Body Health Protection System learns how to deal whit this Virus -> now he is immune,
On the Natural Way, the Body have to fight the Virus, which is not that pleasent as the Way whit the Vaccine as, its not Harmless, and after that, your Protection System learns how to deal whit this Virus..

This dosnt works whit every Virus, like whe know from HIV, but its helps on a lot of Viruses..
 
I'm against my DNA being altered by other people because I'm too distrustful to let a bunch of strangers working for a likely psychopath rewrite what I am.

levi said:
To be fair, if you met one of you ancestors from 100 years ago, you'd seem like a superhero to them. After all, you're immune to measles, which would have killed at least two out of every 10 infected persons back then.
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Doubtful. Supposedly people back then had a much better health in general with much less overweight and much less dependence on medication. If you're overweight or need medication then you'd probably seem more like a degenerate to them.
 
The Question is: Do whe realy understand how our DNA Sequences interract whit other DNA Sequences?? , DNA is pretty serous Stuff, one small bug, and the whole System ditnt work, .. so if you modivie one Genome, you may cause an issue whit a diverent Genome..
 
matzesu said:
The Question is: Do whe realy understand how our DNA Sequences interract whit other DNA Sequences?? , DNA is pretty serous Stuff, one small bug, and the whole System ditnt work, .. so if you modivie one Genome, you may cause an issue whit a diverent Genome..
Click to expand...

We understand much of it pretty well, other stuff less so. It actually is pretty robust stuff (and also serious) but it is relatively stable and "one small bug" doesnt break it, that's the beauty of it, it has its own copy mechanism, and some of the copiers have very good proof-reading abilities. To attach this to the topic at hand, one peculiarity of the ncov2 virus is that is posseses this proof-reading ability while most other DNA-virusses don't. That means nCov2 does not mutate at fast as other virusses. It has another peculiarity namely that it undergoes recombination, meaning one virus can mix its DNA with another and that makes it mutate much faster. This last thing may cause it this virus to change host so easily.
 
Bosbeetle said:
We understand much of it pretty well, other stuff less so. It actually is pretty robust stuff (and also serious) but it is relatively stable and "one small bug" doesnt break it, that's the beauty of it, it has its own copy mechanism, and some of the copiers have very good proof-reading abilities. To attach this to the topic at hand, one peculiarity of the ncov2 virus is that is posseses this proof-reading ability while most other DNA-virusses don't. That means nCov2 does not mutate at fast as other virusses. It has another peculiarity namely that it undergoes recombination, meaning one virus can mix its DNA with another and that makes it mutate much faster. This last thing may cause it this virus to change host so easily.
Click to expand...
What’s the net rate if on the one hand it has a feature that would cause it to mutate slower, whilst on the other hand also having a feature that would cause it to mutate faster?
 
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