Covid-19 (Coronavirus) - Please stay safe, y'all

[Swordfish II]

The CDC also says that people who get vaccinated should continue to practice Covid-19 prevention measures until it is known whether the vaccine prevents the spread of the virus.

The latest on the coronavirus pandemic and vaccines: Live updates

The coronavirus pandemic has brought countries to a standstill. Meanwhile, vaccinations have already started in some countries as cases continue to rise. Follow here for the latest.

amp.cnn.com

 

[JDTAY]

Hmm, I wonder if, now that the United States COVID-19 relief bill is signed, more states will be able to introduce tighter lockdown measures.

 

[pyrat]

The CDC also says that people who get vaccinated should continue to practice Covid-19 prevention measures until it is known whether the vaccine prevents the spread of the virus.

The European Medicines Agency says something similar for the only vaccine currently conditionally authorised in the EU market

The impact of vaccination with Comirnaty on the spread of the SARS-CoV-2 virus in the community is not yet known. It is not yet known how much vaccinated people may still be able to carry and spread the virus.

(Comirnaty = Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine for COVID-19)
What is not clear to me is whether there are ongoing clinical studies of the different vaccines to eventually know about spread. The studies I know where not trying to establish this, but there should be some that try.
It doesn't look easy. If you just observe the community by statistics in different groups, it can be hard to tell whether infections come from vaccinated or unvaccinated people, because they're likely to mix for many months (if not ever).
If you make more clinical trials with vaccinated and control groups, you'd have to PCR all test participants, including asymptomatic participants, every week or something like that, and that'd be a lot of tests than may be required to deal with the pandemy (I have a feeling test capacity is still less than would be desirable, but I have no recent data).
If that's not possible maybe the best would be to piggyback on contact tracing, in places where outbreaks are still effectively traced.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Everything is phony because there's thousands of billion dollars/euros engaged here.
E.g. France bought 200 million "vaccine" doses (let's say that the average price is €10 -> french citizens just indirectly paid 2 billions euros for basically, AFAIK, snake oil).
That's why they lied again and again and again...
Of course they know that this "vaccine" is inefficient vs contamination and contagion. And the public still don't know if it's really efficient in case of severe illness.

Oh, btw, the cheap hydroxychloroquine significantly works (two recent peer-reviewed then published articles):
https://www.marinemedicalsociety.in...e=22;issue=3;spage=98;epage=104;aulast=Mathai
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanrhe/article/PIIS2665-9913(20)30227-7/fulltext

 

[pyrat]

Oh, btw, the cheap hydroxychloroquine significantly works (two recent peer-reviewed then published articles):
https://www.marinemedicalsociety.in...e=22;issue=3;spage=98;epage=104;aulast=Mathai

But there are other studies concluding that's not the case, like this. I can't tell who is right because I don't know medicine.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanrhe/article/PIIS2665-9913(20)30227-7/fulltext

This link does not seem to talk about hydroxychloquine ?

 

[levi]

There are things studies are good at, like figuring out how long the antibodies (that represent immunity) last for, whether two doses are appreciably better than one, what the best spacing for of those does are if it is. But in terms of contagion and spread the best thing you can do is immunise everyone with your best guess and see how that affects the numbers you're already collecting. Track and trace can play a part of that, if only we could actually make that work.

 

[pyrat]

There are things studies are good at, like figuring out how long the antibodies (that represent immunity) last for, whether two doses are appreciably better than one, what the best spacing for of those does are if it is. But in terms of contagion and spread the best thing you can do is immunise everyone with your best guess and see how that affects the numbers you're already collecting. Track and trace can play a part of that, if only we could actually make that work.

It could well be so, but then it's a little of a chicken and egg problem. You can't force everyone to vaccinate if you don't know the vaccine stops them from spreading, and you can't know it if they don't all vaccinate ?
I did have the impression, as matzesu also said that in general vaccines do prevent contagion, and I thought that was proved in studies. But I could be imagining all that, I don't think I have any evidence that's so.

 

[levi]

It could well be so, but then it's a little of a chicken and egg problem. You can't force everyone to vaccinate if you don't know the vaccine stops them from spreading, and you can't know it if they don't all vaccinate ?

Once everyone listed has been offered a vaccine, you'll have a list of all the people that registered with their doctor and didn't take up the offer. There are bound to be a few people who don't have a doctor, but if they turn up at a hospital due to covid symptoms you can find them then.

 

[pyrat]

Once everyone listed has been offered a vaccine, you'll have a list of all the people that registered with their doctor and didn't take up the offer. There are bound to be a few people who don't have a doctor, but if they turn up at a hospital due to covid symptoms you can find them then.

But how do you know if the virus came from a vaccinated or unvaccinated person ? You can know who is vaccinated and who not. But how do you know who is spreading ? Whoever ends up in the hospital is likely to be unvaccinated (95% likely for example, because that's the efficiency for symptoms you measured in the vaccine phase 3 trial) but how do you ask the virus for where it comes from ? If you want to prove whether or not vaccinated people can spread, you must assume they could. You can only do contact tracing and try to reconstruct, but as you said that seems to work only when there are few cases, the tracing system is good and people are truthful.
If you force everyone to vaccinate, then you can isolate that group and if you keep having cases it means vaccinated people spread. But if you don't force anyone to vaccinate, your group will have vaccinated and unvaccinated people, and it's difficult to know where the virus came from.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

This link does not seem to talk about hydroxychloquine ?

If you ctrl-f the document, there's 33 matches for hydroxychloroquine... so it is.
From the summary -> findings:
"Patients with rheumatic disease who were taking hydroxychloroquine had a lower risk of COVID-19 infection than patients taking other disease-modifying anti-rheumatic drugs."

 

[Swordfish II]

There are things studies are good at, like figuring out how long the antibodies (that represent immunity) last for

Iirc, this isn't known

 

[levi]

Yes, that's why they're doing studies to find it out as far as I've heard.

 

[pyrat]

If you ctrl-f the document, there's 33 matches for hydroxychloroquine... so it is.
From the summary -> findings:
"Patients with rheumatic disease who were taking hydroxychloroquine had a lower risk of COVID-19 infection than patients taking other disease-modifying anti-rheumatic drugs."

Oh. You're right.
I no longer know what I did yesterday. I thought I had read at least the absstract and searched for hydroxychloroquine... Maybe I jumped to another article unconciously, misstyped search terms... I don't know.
Sorry.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Np :^)

 

[Phlyra]

 

[Robert Taylor]

All of that is total bullshit. Someone is playing games with the numbers and the narratives.

In the states, the number of deaths is STILL the same and on track to be the same as last year as per the cdc post from earlier in the thread.

I just spoke with two sides of my famliy in the eu. The one side that has not had a single incident (in the familiy) is totally locked down, everything is closed unil January. The other side where all my cousins were sick with the chinese virus (according to tests, who knows what they are actually testing for) is COMPLETELY OPEN. My cousin just sent me a picture he took of them dining in and eating, about 10 people at a table side by side. That entire regions is COMPLETELY OPEN, people are sitting in coffee shops, shopping, eating and no one is wearing masks and no problems.

Florida is still fully open, no issues, no spike. California is totally shut down and has one of the largest spikes of the year (of infections not deaths). I conced South Dakota has a huge spike of reported infections as per previous poster (of infections not deaths)., really good find. I don't deny masks and social distancing work as s general principle either, I concede that.

And yet, the us death rate is exactly the same as projected for this year still.

I'm calling it.

This is lunacy. None of this makes sense because it is all utter bullshit at this point in time. The entire scientific, political and medical class of professionals have shown them selves to not only be completely incompetent, they have really started to show a kind of narcisism with a kind of hatred for the non professional classes. These people tell us that the world is ending, that hospitals are full and yet they have time to choreograph and post nurses dancing on tik tok.

I am now convinced that this is not a war between us and a virus. This is a war between two world views held by COMPLETELY different classes of people:

1) The Professional Class - anyone with a degree, an office job, government job, lawyers, techs and so forth. All people that have NEVER started a business or built anything but got a qualification and walked into a job.

2) The Common Class - anyone that doesn't work in the professional class but has a common job. Most of these people are either self employed, have small businesses and have actually built things from scratch.

The professional class works in comfort, have never built anything, never started a business and have opinions about how the world works and is in charge of all of the layers of the system that is telling the rest of us how to live, behave and think. This is the effective problem and the effective discontinuity about what is happening at a broad level here in the west. This also explains a whole lot of other things as well.

The last time there was this vast of a discontinuity between world views of one class and another were in the former communist republics and also around the time of the French Revolution. i think the yellow vest movement is not over, that is just the beginning. They failed (for now) in France because they did not get enough support from other regions, but I think they are going to be getting more and more support as this bullshit keeps on going.

Those here that believe there is something to fear are not wrong. You all point to excellent and probably really good concerns and valid points. But, the reality is simply this: if this was anything of ANY great concern, there would be bodies in the streets, bodies piled up in morgues, hospitals utterly full and half of everyone here on the forum dead.

We should have opened up in the summer and moved on.

EDIT: To the mods, if you feel this is too inflamatory just delete the post. No problem.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

EDIT: To the mods, if you feel this is too inflamatory just delete the post. No problem.

It would be even simpler if you stop posting bullshit.

 

[Robert Taylor]

I accept your rebuke with pride.



EDIT: Your posts in this thread have been excellent.

 

[Robert Taylor]

The idea for the class war is not mine (obviously). I got the idea from Robert Barnes about 6 months ago and I have been researching the PROFESSIONAL class versus COMMON (WORKER) class filter since then just a little bit. The really interesting thing about the idea is that not only does it have explanatory power for a tremendous amount of events over the last ... oh at least 2 years as it is recent in my memory, but also it has predictive power as well. Once you start to see how the professional class behaves you start to understand what they beleive and when you understand what they beleive you start to understand what they will do next.

This Timcast today is kind of serendipitous, they nicely broadstroke this topic from macro and micro perspectives:
The conversation about details of the chinese virus is basically done. What this conversation is really about, at least in my mind, is the war between the world views held by these two groups.

The yellow vests were the first group to step up and do something real about this (their struggle was EXACTLY a fight against the value system imposed by the professional class on the common (working) class). I love the French. The only group of people in the west that are willing to get out in the street and TRULY protest and fight. The next biggest upcoming danger is in america where we have A LOT of people that have lost everything that are armed and motivated. The number of people that have lost everything is growing every passing day. This is EXTREMELY dangerous. When you have people that have nothing to loose and food starts to get short while the american government passes a spending bill sending billions to help non americans, you have a fucking powder keg that we have not seen for a long time. A very very long time.

When i say that the professional class vs common class filter has predictive power, what I mean is exactly this: these people HAVE NO CLUE that we are sitting on a powder keg that we have not seen for a few hundred years. They keep on pushing and pushing (and dancing on tik tok), and after Jan 6th, there just might be 80 million highly armed and highly motivated people with nothing to loose start to prep a little bit more.

And americans are fucking armed to the teeth. This is very very very dangerous. If this blows, it is going to blow right across all western countries, not just the states.

 

[JDTAY]

Oh man, my governor has held COVID-19 briefings every Tuesday this month, but not today, apparently.

I can understand if he wants a breather. He's gotta do one next week though, because North Carolina's COVID-19 restrictions are set to expire on the 8th.