Cool, Is It Not?

[spray]

Man, considering this is a broadly gaming forum it makes me giggle that the biggest explosion of aggresive fanboyism has exploded around a new computer release!

i'm glad that mac has finally produced something that is accessible to all computer buyers, i toyed with the idea of an apple, but frankly the extra price put me off.

bring it on i say, this can only make the dominant person better (surely), it will be cool when the windows world is flooded with similar product.

obviously the shuttle et al cases are available, but it is only when dell etc start to offer them that they will make it mainstream.

 

[Rico]

It's not my fault, it creeped in once I bought an iPod. Then one say on the iPod's screen it comes up "BUY AN IBOOK NOW" How could refuse the requests its sleek polished exterior and comfortable scroll wheel? Once the iBook arrived things only got worse. The second I see a post attacking Apple my fingers just kind of type by themselves.

 

[declaration]

PC users are scared are they? Scared of what exactlty?
Scared of a massively simple operating system? Scared of one mouse button, instead of the functionality of three?

More like they are scared of no upgradeability and bankruptcy. To just say "PC users" are scared is a joke. Go tell that to a user of Gentoo.

​

Get over yourself. No Linux distro can stand up to Windows yet, let alone OS X. None has proved itself consistently compatible with hardware and stable enough for the kind of stuff home users do. This isn't a locked down server environment. I have had problems with every single Linux distro I've ever used from anything from the multitude of sound mixing daemons working together to nvidia's drivers just plain not working.

You can upgrade the OS. How many users do you know who upgrade their PCs? Open them up and put new stuff inside them? No -conventional- computer user is going to do that. The Mac is perfect for them.

Apple have survived under much worse conditions, close to bankruptcy. Now they have a music player with 60% of the market and have never been more successful on the computer front. Microsoft has a chance of becoming bankrupt, you know. Okay, so it's miniscule. What does that mean? Are you implying that to get to sleep at night you need to buy everything from convicted monopolists? DRM lock-in scares me much more than this paltry argument that Apple might go bankrupt and somehow their user's computers will instantly become expensive paperweights.

Way to make it obvious that you use Gentoo: the moment you said 'massively simple operating system' like it was a BAD thing. Do you know how many Linux users are switching to OS X at the moment? It's based on UNIX, BSD in fact. It has bash. It has a entire suite of developer tools with it. Now you complain because you can't use anything that lets you set up wireless automatically just by placing your iBook near a wireless point. You've rather screw with hackjob workarounds for proprietary devices and mess with ipconfig until your eyes have sunken past your jawline.

Simple to use, not simple in depth. I don't miss the two mouse buttons because the entire OS and application set are designed for one. Looks like Apple's designers invested some effort into making this possible instead of spreading functions around extra mouse buttons and menus to confuse the end-user.

​

Way to get defensive...
You'll note I only slagged off OSX once and that was about the one mouse button. I merely commented on how simple it was to use and noted how this is unlikely to scare all "PC users" as referred to by Pinkspider. Simplicity of use is a good thing.

I totally dont understand your point about Apple going bankrupt. I never ever made any point which could even be interpreted as meaning that. I was once again merely reacting to the words of Pinkspider when he made it sound as though you should treat apple's attempts to further eat into Microsoft's monopoly as a charity cause, when there were perfectly good alternatives in Linux, which dont have the catch of stupidly priced/ stupidly designed hardware.

Just because the average user does not tend to open up their PC's and mess around too much, it doesnt mean the opportunity to do so should not be available.
Take this case as example.
I know two people. They both bought computers at a similar time a few years back. Neither are very computer 'savvy', espescially not hardware wise. One bought an iMac, with everything built into the monitor. The other bought a standard PC.
Guess which one is still in use? the PC has been upgraded (at a shop) a couple of times so it now has a DVD writer, bigger HD and more RAM.
The iMac could only have some things if they were external which kind of defeats the point and makes things much more expensive and complicated. Even a shop wouldnt be able to fit a DVD writer to this ridiculously designed piece of hardware. This Mac is not even able to run OS X because of RAM limitation whereas the PC (before upgrades) could happily run XP.

You Mac people need to respect the difference between hardware and software. When people say computer, it shouldn't mean Windows, just as when people say PC, it shouldn't mean Windows.

Both of us would like to see the end of Microsofts monopoly. I use Linux (not Gentoo actually), you use OS X. I would love to able to use OS X. its just that I am not willing to make the huge sacrifices hardware wise.
I wish they would release a version of OS X for PC's then we'd both be happy.

 

[PinkSpider]

As the Tesco advert says 'Every Little Helps'.

Microsoft have too big a share of the market; competition is good; guy.

 

[moz]

1.25GHz or 1.42GHz PowerPC G4 processor with Velocity Engine

what is the rough x86 equivelent speed wise?

 

[Bobsonsirjonny]

For this cash you could build an amazing PC. Forget an amazing Graphics card, and you could get an AMD 64 3400+, with a huge hardrive and 1gb of Ram.
Plus it wouldnt be restricted to 1 ethernet port and 2 usb ports.

You could then tun any Linux distro, many of which I find much better to use than OS X, with a dualboot of Windows just for gaming. I dont see that as 'giving in'.

As for the whole "creating a new underground scene of bedroom coders" argument, I see no argument supporting this. Its just a smaller version of a Mac. Plus with a monitor, keyboard and mouse to buy, it wont be any cheaper than any standard computer. I think the biggest buyers of something like this will be non computer "savvy" middle aged people wanting a 'cheap' quiet family computer without the hassles of XP (spyware etc).

People have reported installing Mac OSX on Linux/Windows in an emulator in 20 minutes using a PC comparable to the one above.

The only Mac I would consider buying is a notebook with a 12 inch screen, as they are actually reasonably priced and achieve true portability more than any PC based notebook.

​

Ok - well your wrong. This is aimed at the non savvy. Dads will go into shops and end up buying them for their sons. Already 8 of my scener mates have bought one each - its a good stock base level for demo codeing. Its a standard hardware - one config to support - that opens up possibilities. Will be just like in the days of Amiga. You plug it into your TV or your current monitor. It affords you about the same power as a low end PC for a similar price, but gives you a far better environment to work in.

OS X to all intents and purpose is Free BSD - but sugar coated and easy to use.

 

[Bobsonsirjonny]

PS - OS X does allow you to use two mice buttons. I had my G4 where I used to work set up this way.

XP is a bag of shite compared to X. Sure if you wish to play games all day, but for real stuff like video editing, photoshop etc you either go for a custom PC - building your own dogs bollocks edit suite or you buy a stock mac.

A stock mac does the job - no farting around with codecs. Just rip, edit and dump.

RED... hmmm have I come up with a modern term for WRAP (Wind, Reel and Print)...

 

[moz]

OS X to all intents and purpose is Free BSD - but sugar coated and easy to use.

​

theres something wrong with your statement not sure how to word the answer though

OSX is more like an Xserver with a window manager. which sits on the Freebsd kernal.

even my statement doesnt look right. bit like when people see KDE running on my FreeBSD 4.9 laptop and people call it Linux, now i'll tell them its a mac.

 

[Bobsonsirjonny]

1.25GHz or 1.42GHz PowerPC G4 processor with Velocity Engine

what is the rough x86 equivelent speed wise?

​

Hard to say really. It used to be the case that on average a PPC was 60% faster than its equivalent Mhz intel Pentium... but now you get all manner of different flavours of x86. Hyperthreading.. faster FSB's etc..

So discount the MHz and think about efficiency and processor load. Mac OS uses the hardware in a much more intelligent way than windows uses x86. When you put RAM in a mac you really notice a dramatic speed increase. Mac OS X doesnt (and I hate mac classic - its a poor mans amiga os) start services which clog up the system. The gui uses the GPU. This is a very Amiga like way of doing things - for example Amiga OS displays and sound etc were handled by the custom chips - the processor being left to number crunch. This mac uses ddr - its got plenty of bandwidth too. Its been designed to work in harmony. A perfect marriage of hardware an OS. So to compare a mac to a PC on processor speed alone is unfair. IMHO Mac OS X is amazing. Its a real operating system, a powerful operating system. It is essentialy what Amiga OS would have / should have (rumours) become had so many cooks not spoiled the broth.


Incidently : my Amiga OS 4 Pre-release (posh name for Beta) set up (PPC G3 800mhz gx with 256 mb ram) boots in less than 10 seconds - the GX is sans altivec but does have a HUGE 2048 cache. I'm going to try MOL on it soon - but need to stick Debian on it 1st (I hate linux). OS4 is really fun to play - its early days but its heading in the right direction. While on the desktop it sucks when compared to mac OS X it does have some very powerful features for the embedded markets. Stuff is happening so stay tuned ;-)

 

[Bobsonsirjonny]

OS X to all intents and purpose is Free BSD - but sugar coated and easy to use.

​

theres something wrong with your statement not sure how to word the answer though

OSX is more like an Xserver with a window manager. which sits on the Freebsd kernal.

even my statement doesnt look right. bit like when people see KDE running on my FreeBSD 4.9 laptop and people call it Linux, now i'll tell them its a mac.

​

If you wish to be a pedant - ok so they have taken free BSD, rebranded it and made it a great environment to be in. B)

 

[moz]

OS X to all intents and purpose is Free BSD - but sugar coated and easy to use.

​

theres something wrong with your statement not sure how to word the answer though

OSX is more like an Xserver with a window manager. which sits on the Freebsd kernal.

even my statement doesnt look right. bit like when people see KDE running on my FreeBSD 4.9 laptop and people call it Linux, now i'll tell them its a mac.

​

If you wish to be a pedant - ok so they have taken free BSD, rebranded it and made it a great environment to be in. B)

​

i had a miggy a500 with the a590 20MB with 2MB RAM, what was the name of the UK commodore bloke that had the beard

 

[declaration]

For this cash you could build an amazing PC. Forget an amazing Graphics card, and you could get an AMD 64 3400+, with a huge hardrive and 1gb of Ram.
Plus it wouldnt be restricted to 1 ethernet port and 2 usb ports.

You could then tun any Linux distro, many of which I find much better to use than OS X, with a dualboot of Windows just for gaming. I dont see that as 'giving in'.

As for the whole "creating a new underground scene of bedroom coders" argument, I see no argument supporting this. Its just a smaller version of a Mac. Plus with a monitor, keyboard and mouse to buy, it wont be any cheaper than any standard computer. I think the biggest buyers of something like this will be non computer "savvy" middle aged people wanting a 'cheap' quiet family computer without the hassles of XP (spyware etc).

People have reported installing Mac OSX on Linux/Windows in an emulator in 20 minutes using a PC comparable to the one above.

The only Mac I would consider buying is a notebook with a 12 inch screen, as they are actually reasonably priced and achieve true portability more than any PC based notebook.

​

Ok - well your wrong. This is aimed at the non savvy. Dads will go into shops and end up buying them for their sons. Already 8 of my scener mates have bought one each - its a good stock base level for demo codeing. Its a standard hardware - one config to support - that opens up possibilities. Will be just like in the days of Amiga. You plug it into your TV or your current monitor. It affords you about the same power as a low end PC for a similar price, but gives you a far better environment to work in.

OS X to all intents and purpose is Free BSD - but sugar coated and easy to use.

​

if you read what I posted, you'll see I said it is aimed at the non-savvy.
But for you to invent a crazy situation where Dads all over the country will be running out to buy their kids these machines and that this will create a bedroom coding phenomenom seems a bit far fetched. Its just a small Mac!

And talking about monopolies. I have a motherboard made by asus. Graphics card = ATI. RAM by Crucial. I want to be able to custom build all my hardware, and then run whichever OS I choose. Why wont apple let me do this??? I would rather stick with Windows/Linux dual boot than be bullied into spending stupid amounts of money on hardware I dont even want all packaged together in an ugly box with a distinct lack of needed features.

It seems to me that you are harking back to a golden age of "bedroom coding" when really it still is the golden age. Linux anyone?

 

[Memnoch]

i had a miggy a500 with the a590 20MB with 2MB RAM, what was the name of the UK commodore bloke that had the beard

​

Much better than a PC or an Apple. The beardy bloke was David Pleasance I think.

 

[PinkSpider]

Hey im pretty savvy and I prefered osx to linux (ive only used redhat and mandrake) and xp.

It has bash, it does all the stuff my linux box could plus it was more compatible with my hardware and like fuck it ran good for a 1ghz box (ppc's love em). If it had of been mine instead of my mums I may have tried a ppc variant of linux on it and then felt the beast but yea.

Macs are cute, easy, powerful. The only problem is the lack of support from games developers but if the userbase goes up so will this.

as Rico wouldnt like me to say 'lol im drunk' - hehe.

 

[moz]

i had a miggy a500 with the a590 20MB with 2MB RAM, what was the name of the UK commodore bloke that had the beard

​

Much better than a PC or an Apple. The beardy bloke was David Pleasance I think.

​

thats the geezer, strange how i remember him

 

[Rico]

I use Windows and Linux too. It's just after OS X I am actually prepared to use Mac-only hardware so I can use OS X. In particular, it's really refreshing not to have driver issues because Apple is in charge. I think as long as they don't grow too large (which they won't) it's not a problem. They'll continue to innovate, Linux and Windows will improve as a result too, people will realise alternatives to Windows exist.

I would rather stick with Windows/Linux dual boot than be bullied into spending stupid amounts of money on hardware I dont even want all packaged together in an ugly box with a distinct lack of needed features.

​

This is what bothers me. It's like you took a statement then added as much bullshit to it as possible. You're not being bullied into spending anything, it's a free market and Apple isn't exactly in a position of control *COUGH* unlike Microsoft, who bully 99% of computer users to use XP. It's not stupid amounts all the time; the iBook is fairly reasonably priced. As I have said before, you get a quality assurance and superior ease of use that I and many others find to be worth the cash.

It's not an ugly box, in fact opening the box is something Apple have spent a lot of effort into to make the best impression (buy an iBook or iPod and see what Imean). Finally, if you 'need' features Apple doesn't provide don't buy it. I find it suitable, as will most of the 'non-savvy' users buying the product. C'mon, you're a Linux user, you already said you hated the simplicity of it, it's clearly not going to live up to your needs.

 

[declaration]

Once again, I want to be able to use OS X. I like it. I never ever said I hated the simplicity of it. I just dont want to buy some overpriced (except for the iBook range), ugly (imo) hardware in order to do it.

Surely you understand these reasons for me casually criticising this new Mini Mac.

But as I said, when I need a new laptop, an iBook it shall be.

 

[Rico]

I'll understand most of your sentiment, but I'll never quite grasp who you can think Apple's hardware is ugly. Overused by now, yes, but ugly?

 

[finty]

It pleases me to know that my dick will soon be bigger than my computer.

 

[p j]

It pleases me to know that my dick will soon be bigger than my computer.

​

oh god :blink:


didnt want to know


...but now you mention it...