Commercial Development

[DAP]

If it has DRM, I won't buy it. (I won't pirate it either).
If it does not have DRM, I might buy it.
In any case, make sure the license is clear on the opening screen (not a wall of legalese, Just the basics, commercial/shareware/free, and your web site). It is too easy to download something you think is free, and not figure out till much later it was pirated.

 

[icurafu]

OMAP does. It's called the m-shield.

I only care about DRM if it is restrictive.

 

[WizardStan]

OMAP does. It's called the m-shield.

I only care about DRM if it is restrictive.

Agreed. Mostly. Consider Valve's security model. In order to play Half Life 2, you need a connection to the internet. In general not a problem, but it could be. It's still a restriction. However, for the inconvenience, they allow you to install games you've purchased on any computer, as many times as you want, directly through the internet with a single click. That's something worth having a constant internet connection for.

 

[PoisonedV]

username said the best strategy- assuming the game is primarily online. take a look at sins of a solar, for example!

 

[hobbyman II]

actually, I am one of the few who HATE steam, why?, cos I`m stuck on this very slow and unreliable 3G internet connection (I live too far from the nearest mast for it to be reliable, no phone lines out here in hickville uk), and I was seriously p*ss*d when I found that UT2007 required a full time connection in order to play single player, makes the game unplayable.

mind you, UT2007 was a major flop imo, I didn`t even bother playing it after the first few tries, went back to UT2004, much better game imo

hobbyman

 

[WizardStan]

actually, I am one of the few who HATE steam, why?, cos I`m stuck on this very slow and unreliable 3G internet connection (I live too far from the nearest mast for it to be reliable, no phone lines out here in hickville uk), and I was seriously p*ss*d when I found that UT2007 required a full time connection in order to play single player, makes the game unplayable.

mind you, UT2007 was a major flop imo, I didn`t even bother playing it after the first few tries, went back to UT2004, much better game imo

hobbyman

:blink: My parents are on dialup. In the middle of nowhere. With crappy, aging, copper wire that tops out at a 28.8k connection. This hasn't prevented me from playing any other steam games, notably Half Life 2. I wouldn't consider installing it via internet, that's what the DVD is for. What is it about UT2007 that makes it so unplayable? Surely it doesn't keep verifying your connection while playing: that would just be stupid. Right?

 

[cb88]

you get really bad latency on wireless i think... same for statelite

stilll on dialup at home.... top speed depends on my PC 49 on my HW modem (linux sadly the modem apparently overheats and dies making my system unstable random reboots etc... had to take it out)

and my grandparents PC with a winmodem gets 52kbs

 

[valhalla]

Agreed. Mostly. Consider Valve's security model. (...) That's something worth having a constant internet connection for.

On the PC you are going to use to connect to the internet anyway it may be just a minor hassle, but on the pandora it could become a BIG problem, expecially when you are on the go

Wifi wouldn't be a solution, since it won't be available anywhere; UMTS/GPRS/whatever isn't either because it requires another battery draining piece of equipement.

 

[PoisonedV]

You do personalised DRM then. chances are there aren't going to be huge amounts of people ordering this- i think it would be easy to set up a system on a per order basis that you entered in a unique number that appeared on your pandora somewhere- maybe a serial number of your unit or a manufacturing number or something- it would only work on 1 pandora, of course, but thats less an issue than on pcs

 

[Squidge]

Consider Valve's security model. In order to play Half Life 2, you need a connection to the internet. [...] That's something worth having a constant internet connection for.
Yes, I remember that. I remember not being able to play the game when I received it as it was unable to authenticate with valves servers. Meanwhile my neighbour had a pirated copy that he had been playing for several days. How annoying that was.

 

[WizardStan]

Consider Valve's security model. In order to play Half Life 2, you need a connection to the internet. [...] That's something worth having a constant internet connection for.
Yes, I remember that. I remember not being able to play the game when I received it as it was unable to authenticate with valves servers. Meanwhile my neighbour had a pirated copy that he had been playing for several days. How annoying that was.

I'm sorry to say, but it sucks to be you then. I preordered, got it on release day, installed it that night, didn't have any problems at all through the entire process, and have in fact been very grateful for their method of authentication on many occasions as that's how I've installed it the last few times.

 

[conso]

Consider Valve's security model. In order to play Half Life 2, you need a connection to the internet. [...] That's something worth having a constant internet connection for.
Yes, I remember that. I remember not being able to play the game when I received it as it was unable to authenticate with valves servers. Meanwhile my neighbour had a pirated copy that he had been playing for several days. How annoying that was.

Damn, I bought a copy of hl2:e1 in a local shop and installed it. Had to install steam - the first time in my life. Then I had to enter the freaking activation code from the paper in the case and it wasn't accepted. Spend half a hour trying if some of those 8s were actually bs and stuff like that, but the code didn't work. Researched at valves homepage and found out, that I would have to send the code-paper together with the bill to valve and not only have to pay the porto for both directions, but valve also wanted more money for a new key then I spend on the DVD with case. Awesome, I love steam!

 

[Squidge]

So you returned the copy to the shop stating that it was defective and not fit for sale, and got a refund?

 

[PoisonedV]

I was a steam hater, for no release, naturally, because I have to hate whatever is popular at the moment. anyway about a year and a half ago i finally got it, it was great and convienent, but then flaws starting becomnig apparent. servers went down constantly. updates applied when I didn't want them, games NOT FUCKING DOWNLOADING, i got banned by VAC for no reason and I had to rebuy all my games on a new account...

 

[conso]

So you returned the copy to the shop stating that it was defective and not fit for sale, and got a refund?

No, the people in the shop told me that they aren't allowed to take back opened media and I must get in contact with the producer. :angry:

 

[WizardStan]

So you returned the copy to the shop stating that it was defective and not fit for sale, and got a refund?

No, the people in the shop told me that they aren't allowed to take back opened media and I must get in contact with the producer. :angry:

At which point you simply asked for an exchange, something they are allowed to do, right?

 

[VRAndy]

QUOTE
What sort of piracy thwarting does the device have if any? (Even if we code something for 5$ a copy, if everyone has it for 0$ there's no value in commercial development).
Thanks for the quick lesson in economics, and for assuming we're all criminals. That always makes me feel warm and fuzzy and eager to fork over cash.

Seriously, though. With this crowd [gestures around at fellow forum-goers] any sort of copy-protection will just be seen as a challenge. I promise you it's a challenge we'd win.

With a community like this I honestly think you'd be better off making a good product and appealing to our sense of integrity instead of insulting both our honesty and our technical abilities with some sort of copy-protection.

For what it's worth, I would put down $5-$10 without hesitation for either :
-- A nicely polished totally finished game that I enjoyed the demo of.
-- Any sort of PDA software that fills a niche not well filled by the open-source alternatives.
-- Development tools that filled a niche not well filled by the open-source alternatives.
(I might put down more than that, but not "without hesitation".)

Instead of making a game with DRM (which I despise), you could give it good online play and have it activate through your servers.
Ok, but if it's locked to a particular server, or if users are not allowed to start their own servers, then it's simply another form of DRM. Sure, it's not as intrinsically sleazy, but you have the same end-result : A game that can never be played again once the original company disappears or otherwise stops supporting the game after you've paid for it.

Imagine if books worked like that!

In order to play Half Life 2, you need a connection to the internet.
You also need Valve's servers to be online. This is already a problem. What about when you're an old man wanting to play old games for the nostalgia of it?

That's something worth having a constant internet connection for.
Too bad if you're on dial-up and live in an area where broadband simply isn't offered, or isn't economical. And heaven help you if you've only got a single phone-line that you can't monopolize for playing games.

Running a museum or library a hundred years from now is going to be a nightmare. And good luck to any private citizen who wants a collection of antique 2000's era video games.

All this is irrelevant, of course, because a successful hand-held game cannot depend on internet access. First time I couldn't play my game because I'm in a hotel without Wifi I'd be demanding my $5 back!

I was a steam hater, for no release, naturally, because I have to hate whatever is popular at the moment. anyway about a year and a half ago i finally got it, it was great and convienent, but then flaws starting becomnig apparent. servers went down constantly. updates applied when I didn't want them, games NOT FUCKING DOWNLOADING, i got banned by VAC for no reason and I had to rebuy all my games on a new account...

I particularly enjoy being forced to download lengthy patches before I can play a game. ... A single player game.

That's a real joy. Progress!

"I've got fifteen minutes before I gotta go. Maybe a level or two of Portal!"
[Click]
"DOWNLOADING UPDATE! ESTIMATED TIME 16minutes"

 

[WizardStan]

That's something worth having a constant internet connection for.
Too bad if you're on dial-up and live in an area where broadband simply isn't offered, or isn't economical. And heaven help you if you've only got a single phone-line that you can't monopolize for playing games.

Which is exactly the situation at my parents place. Or was, before they got the second phone line. Connect to internet, start steam, login, disconnect modem, play games without internet. Doesn't even try to update the game. Occasionally updated Steam when connecting though, which was annoying.. You also can't unlock any achievements in Episode 2 when not connected, but that's minor detail.

 

[Wertigon]

You also can't unlock any achievements in Episode 2 when not connected, but that's minor detail.

And what happens when more games require the same thing? when merely making progress requires a login?

Steam, no matter how good it is, has stepped over a threshhold that many are reluctant to cross. It feels like Steam will be a slippery slope...

 

[WizardStan]

Steam, no matter how good it is, has stepped over a threshhold that many are reluctant to cross. It feels like Steam will be a slippery slope...

Then don't use it. I disagree with Spore's DRM model, so I'm not buying it. I convinced a few others not to as well. When enough people agree, they'll change their policy, or won't reuse it in the future, at least. It's the economic version of voting.