Cellular Discussion [Split from] Bugs and Calculations

[rygD]

@rygD the big problem lies in the MOQ.... With a splitting up like that.

IIRC he hasn't confirmed he can mix and match

Hmmm...maybe I was mistaken. I thought the concern was about the potential lack of US sales. Is there also doubt about reaching sales requirements for 4G to customers in the rest of the world?

Just put a box underneath it so I can put a carrier pigeon in it, or stuff to send smoke signals. Maybe I can get some flags...

Oh, I know: shine up the logo plate to a mirror.

I guess we have to wait for preorders to start to see what happens.

 

[rygD]

If he does the two 4G ones there will be 3 versions. I figured 3G instead of one that will only sell to those in the US would mean he gets stuck with less sitting around taking up space.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

Well Cricket allows any US GSM device on their network. They don't IMEI check, I could take the SIM from my phone and put it in whatever and they said they do not care.

 

[rygD]

Well Cricket allows any US GSM device on their network. They don't IMEI check, I could take the SIM from my phone and put it in whatever and they said they do not care.

I should find out how T-Mobile, Ting, and MetroPCS treat outside devices.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

I would just ask them, perhaps show them the Pandora and explain like I did. Then again the guy I talked to specifically mentioned the GPRS Arduino shield, so maybe ask about that. Most likely if they support that they'll automatically support the Pyra.

Also, EvilDragon, are you planning on showing the Pyra at any shows in the US? I see your advert for that German one up there, and I think something like that would be great for drumming up US orders.

 

[rygD]

I would just ask them, perhaps show them the Pandora and explain like I did. Then again the guy I talked to specifically mentioned the GPRS Arduino shield, so maybe ask about that. Most likely if they support that they'll automatically support the Pyra.

That will be really helpful. Now the problem is finding someone who knows what that is (the people at the T-Mobile store down the street from me seem to barely even know about the things they sell). I will do a bit of homework to get myself up to speed before I talk to anyone. Thanks.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

One thing that may be helpful is to ask if you can use your SIM in another phone without contacting them. If you can do that, it should work in any device.

 

[pablocrossa]

iirc, someone said the US 4G module would be somewhat usefull around the world. ? If so, couldn't it just be endorsed to take that one over the EU version outside the US and the EU, wherever fitting, to level demand and meet MOQ on both ends?
If my assumption ain't right, say so and let's forget about what I just said.

US 4G will give you worldwide GSM, EU 4G will give you GSM on most countries (other than US, Canada and some Latin American ones).
@Swordfish II: Even if you travel to the EU often, if you only want voice and text, US modem will give you that (I am sure the number of countries that have no 2G GSM backbone is minimal, I personally know none).

> PHS8-P / PHS8-J / PHS8-K: Five Bands UMTS/HSPA+
(WCDMA/FDD) (850/800, 900, 1900 and 2100 MHz),
Quad-Band GSM (850/900/1800/1900 MHz)
> PHS8-US / PHS8-USA:
Dual Band UMTS/HSPA+ (850, 1900 MHz),
Dual-Band GSM (850/1900 MHz)
> PHS8-E: Dual Band UMTS/HSPA+ (900/2100 MHz),
Dual-Band GSM (900/1800 MHz)
> UMTS / HSPA+, 3GPP release 6 / 7
> Rx-Diversity with Equalizer (Type 3i)
> Enhanced F-DPCH, DTX, DRX, SCH-IC

This sheet only shows the PHS8-P / PHS8-J / PHS8-K as supporting WCDMA

Which is the version that's worldwide, the other modems also have frequency limitations, I'm sure the 'Worldwide 3G' modem people are preaching about is that one...

This will be a big issue. People will buy it thinking it will work on all carriers (I just had to see if it would be compatible on my own). But the 4G chipset won't work on Verizon or Sprint.

The 3G chipset should just work on all providers since it has wcdma support.

So in providing 4G, sprint and Verizon customers will either buy one thinking it will work when it won't... or they will buy a base model since that modem will be useless on their network.

The most support for all providers is the 3G world version.

If people really care about CDMA support it's a question of getting the PLS8-X instead of the US one... that's it. It supports CDMA carriers.

----

I think the whole "Selling a 4G EU and 3G Worldwide model" might not be a bad idea to work around MOQ, as some EU people seem to be fine settling for 3G, it could balance things out. A poll would help. Something like:

• If there isn't a 4G EU modem, I'd buy the WiFi model
  
• If there isn't a 4G US modem, I'd buy the WiFi model
• If there isn't a 4G EU modem, I'd buy the 3G Worldwide modem
• If there isn't a 4G US modem, I'd buy the 3G Worldwide modem
• I don't want a 4G EU or US modem, I want a 3G Worldwide modem
• I want WiFi

With a note clarifying that the US modem will work in the US, Canada (?) and some Latin American countries while the EU modem will work in the rest of the world (with some overlap on some US-like frequency Latin American countries). Also price attached.

 

[Swordfish II]

PHS8-P / PHS8-J / PHS8-K: Five Bands
UMTS/HSPA+
(WCDMA/FDD) (850/800, 900, 1900 and 2100 MHz),
Quad-Band GSM (850/900/1800/1900 MHz)

Is the World wide one. It has everything EXCEPT 4G.

I have been thinking about this more and more. Really wireless data for me would be pleasant to have, but not mandatory. I always have a phone with me and can tether, and my phone is international. Plus there is always wifi.

 

[pablocrossa]

PHS8-P / PHS8-J / PHS8-K: Five Bands
UMTS/HSPA+
(WCDMA/FDD) (850/800, 900, 1900 and 2100 MHz),
Quad-Band GSM (850/900/1800/1900 MHz)

Is the World wide one. It has everything EXCEPT 4G.

I have been thinking about this more and more. Really wireless data for me would be pleasant to have, but not mandatory. I always have a phone with me and can tether, and my phone is international. Plus there is always wifi.

It's what I meant
The only thing you'd be losing on with that combo (AFAIK) is GPS... And you'd probably have a more 'stable' phone. I'm still not entirely sure I want a modem in mine (the paranoid me...) but I'll probably take it, I like the whole phone idea When preorders are up I'll decide.

 

[Swordfish II]

It's what I meant
The only thing you'd be losing on with that combo (AFAIK) is GPS... And you'd probably have a more 'stable' phone. I'm still not entirely sure I want a modem in mine (the paranoid me...) but I'll probably take it, I like the whole phone idea When preorders are up I'll decide.

Yeah that is where I am. I would like the GPS module too, but I'll see what shakes out and if it will work for me then purchase.

 

[josh4364]

I have a solution!

 

[rygD]

Takes up too much pocket space (Pandora alone is a bit large, Pyra will be thicker, adding something to make it even thicker won't work for me), too many batteries to charge, won't really get the benefits of using Linux on hardware designed for it for smartphone type stuff, yet still have the Android/Google issues. The tape will probably get all disgusting pretty quick, and will get pocket lint stuck to it. Hey, if it works for you...

 

[edgex004]

> PHS8-P / PHS8-J / PHS8-K: Five Bands UMTS/HSPA+
(WCDMA/FDD) (850/800, 900, 1900 and 2100 MHz),
Quad-Band GSM (850/900/1800/1900 MHz)
> PHS8-US / PHS8-USA:
Dual Band UMTS/HSPA+ (850, 1900 MHz),
Dual-Band GSM (850/1900 MHz)
> PHS8-E: Dual Band UMTS/HSPA+ (900/2100 MHz),
Dual-Band GSM (900/1800 MHz)
> UMTS / HSPA+, 3GPP release 6 / 7
> Rx-Diversity with Equalizer (Type 3i)
> Enhanced F-DPCH, DTX, DRX, SCH-IC

This sheet only shows the PHS8-P / PHS8-J / PHS8-K as supporting WCDMA

Not to be a stickler or anything, but I think you are misreading this. You only posted the various 3G options above.

The comparable 4G data sheet is here: http://www.gemalto.com/brochures-site/download-site/Documents/M2M_PLS8_datasheet.pdf

PLS8-E:
Penta Band LTE: 800/900/1800/2100/2600 MHz;
FDD-Band (20,8,3,7,1); Tri Band UMTS (WCDMA):
900/1800/2100 MHz; FDD-Band (8,3,1);
Dual Band GSM/GPRS/EDGE: 900/1800 MHz
> PLS8-US:
Quad Band LTE: 700/850/AWS (1700/2100)/1900 MHz;
FDD-Band (17,5,4,2); Tri Band UMTS (WCDMA): 850/AWS
(1700/2100)/1900 MHz; FDD-Band (5,4,2)
Quad Band GSM/GPRS/EDGE: 850/900/1800/1900 MHz

As you can see, the PLS8-US supports all the same GSM frequencies as the PHS8-P. The only frequencies you lose in the WCDMA realm are 800 and 900. 900 is not used in the US from what I know of, and 800 is only used by Sprint for low speed voice/data. If Sprint is actually doing that low speed voice/data using CMDA/EV-DO and not WCDMA, then that will be moot as neither chip supports CDMA/EV-DO. Both chips have WCDMA on 1900 which is currently Sprint's most widely used high-speed frequency.

In any case, I wouldn't recommend using Sprint with either of those chips, as you lose out on having your GSM fallback for voice and text when 3G/4G is not available.

For my personal use case, I'd like the 4G chip, as that will give me the best 3G/4G in the US and the same exact same GSM fallback as the world-wide PHS8-P.

EDIT: Actually I misread slightly as well. It looks like there is a bit more of a tradeoff: It seems PHS8-P would not be as compatible with T-Mobile as it does not offer (1700/2100). The PLS8-US looks like it may not offer standalone 2100 which would help explain poor/zero 3G and 4G in Europe.

 

[Swordfish II]

Not to be a stickler or anything, but I think you are misreading this. You only posted the various 3G options above.

The comparable 4G data sheet is here: http://www.gemalto.com/brochures-site/download-site/Documents/M2M_PLS8_datasheet.pdf



As you can see, the PLS8-US supports all the same GSM frequencies as the PHS8-P. The only frequencies you lose in the WCDMA realm are 800 and 900. 900 is not used in the US from what I know of, and 800 is only used by Sprint for low speed voice/data. If Sprint is actually doing that low speed voice/data using CMDA/EV-DO and not WCDMA, then that will be moot as neither chip supports CDMA/EV-DO. Both chips have WCDMA on 1900 which is currently Sprint's most widely used high-speed frequency.

In any case, I wouldn't recommend using Sprint with either of those chips, as you lose out on having your GSM fallback for voice and text when 3G/4G is not available.

For my personal use case, I'd like the 4G chip, as that will give me the best 3G/4G in the US and the same exact same GSM fallback as the world-wide PHS8-P.

I was misreading. Thank you.

This I am absolutely good with. I won't be using LTE capability, but all in all good for me and will give other people what they want too.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

If worse comes to worse it would be 3G only for all units, but lets hope that doesn't happen.

 

[TheOldOne]

Last time I posted about sprint my information was old and somewhat outdated. Sprint will NOT sell sim cards for use with phones and does not have standard sims at all. Sprint does have 6 different non standard sims that each work with exactly 1 model of phone so the iPhone 6 SIM will not work on the Nexus 5 and vice versa. So no pyra on sprint AT ALL with any chip.

Verizon will support LTE with the US 4G chip and you can now get SIMs without needing to buy a tablet or hotspot but it will be LTE only and will NEED the US 4g chip. The 3G and US 4G chips still will not work on the 3G CDMA voice network so on Verizon the 3G will not work at all and the 4G will be data only.

On T Mobile the 3G chip may be stuck in 2G mode because it doesn't support the frequency that noone in the world other than them uses for HSPA+ in the US but the US 4G should do voice and LTE fine. I said may because they are slowly switching to a frequency that the 3G chip does support so if you live in an area that has already been switched it will work.

AT&T should work with either the 3G or US 4G.

 

[edgex004]

I was misreading. Thank you.

This I am absolutely good with. I won't be using LTE capability, but all in all good for me and will give other people what they want too.

Note that I misread slightly as well. The 1700/2100 combination is still confusing to me and I am unsure whether having (1700/2100) would mean the PLS8-US has 3G/4G in Europe on 2100 or not. It still has equal GSM support, at least, and very near the same WCDMA support.

I do believe it means that T-Mobile support will be better on the 4G chip versus the 3G, though.
[doublepost=1460479648,1460479330][/doublepost]@TheOldOne: thank you. Very succinct and agrees with what I have been seeing.

 

[pablocrossa]

Note that I misread slightly as well. The 1700/2100 combination is still confusing to me and I am unsure whether having (1700/2100) would mean the PLS8-US has 3G/4G in Europe on 2100 or not. It still has equal GSM support, at least, and very near the same WCDMA support.

I do believe it means that T-Mobile support will be better on the 4G chip versus the 3G, though.
[doublepost=1460479648,1460479330][/doublepost]@TheOldOne: thank you. Very succinct and agrees with what I have been seeing.

AFAIK no, it's a different protocol and the modem must support it, unless specified it is not compatible with both.

 

[Swordfish II]

On T Mobile the 3G chip may be stuck in 2G mode because it doesn't support the frequency that noone in the world other than them uses for HSPA+ in the US but the US 4G should do voice and LTE fine. I said may because they are slowly switching to a frequency that the 3G chip does support so if you live in an area that has already been switched it will work.

AT&T should work with either the 3G or US 4G.

This is absolutely not true. A tmobile 3G chip will work just fine