Release Brogue


How far are you folks getting? I've managed to ket killed by a pink jelly on level 4 four times. A cloud of caustic gas on level 5. Never made it past that.


Usually i turn on "Autoplay" (shift-A) and let the autoplayer run until I am below 40 pct health, then switch to manual play, kill the monster, recoup some health, then reenable autoplay. I repeat this until play gets dangerous around level 4.


Never managed to open any of the special treasure rooms.


How are you faring?


EDIT: some tips and tricks http://brogue.createforumhosting.com/tips-and-tricks-t255.html
 
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I didn't really play yet since I was investigating into other non-related issues. Also I tested qjoypad in order to find out if - with the nub1 set as joystick - in any rogue-like game it in theory would work as dpad-replacement leaving the dpad to be reconfigurable for other commands. Alas there is a problem with qjoypad and any other of the similar programs I tried. You can not configure separate keys for diagonal movement. Just for up/left/down/right. Bummer.

My top entry in the highscore list shows "level 6: 1598 points, killed by a goblin". Maybe I will try another game now. But as already said I'm not that much into the game so far.
 
4916 Burned to death on level 13.

Other levels >= 10: troll 10, ogre 10, poison 11, dar blademaster 10.

Sometimes it's going so very well, and suddenly you just find yourself in an impossible situation...

I have not had any problems with food shortage yet.
 
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I am frequently short on food. But ... indeed this game is much more based on luck than on skill/tactics. There are some things you have to know and you do good to read the tips at the homepage, but the bigger influence is the one of luck. Btw: Opening the treasure-rooms is rather easy and essential as you need anything useful you can find.

 A good example of the influence of luck was my last game, that I just finished (playing on my PC). I made it to level 14 scoring 6404. Read the spoiler if you don't care about knowing what can happen:

On level 5 I had the luck to discover a captive Troll. Freeing it left me with an ally, that slayed any enemy. Additionally it after some time ate the corpse of a monster gaining the special ability of fast regenerating and some time later again ate the corpse of a goblin giving it the ability to cast protection on me. The biggest task of me was to stay out of traps and to withstand using unidentified items which might have been an early death.

 I nearly managed to identify all potions and had a bit of trouble with my inventory cap, because there were too many good things or such that might turn out to be good. Another great find was a stealth-ring that I additionally enchanted.

 Unfortunately my own troll killed me on level 14 because for some reason it become "discordant". Alas I didn't know the meaning of the word and noticed too late what happened. Not sure what made it discordant. Either the Pixie or something else that happened in a fight with the Pixie, orcs and orc-shamans.

Edit: Corrected a monstername in the spoiler.
 
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^

I found one of those Trolls too.  It became angry because I hit it while fighting another Troll, or perhaps it didn't like me killing one of its own?
 
Not the second one of your assumptions. It did that for me without getting discordant. By know I know, that it was one of the monsters I was fighting. I read it in the Brogue-wiki.

Edit: Oh and btw. One of the abilities of my ally, that i mentioned above, is default and not added while playing.
 
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Well I've read through the guides and a couple of playthroughs, I don't know about you guys but I found the game too hard. The first few levels are dull until you get a few items and enchants and ranged attack options, so repeatedly dying at lvl 4-5 and never getting past that was ruining the fun for me.


So I hacked an "easy mode" by changing two lines


Combat.c:1075: player.info.maxHP += 9; // klapse: amt to inc HP on level gain. used to be 5


Movement.c:3516: player.currentHP+=2; // klapse double healing rate


With these changes I made it to LVL 8 and LVL 11 in two good runs, and had the chance to actually identify and use some items and enjoy some exciting combat situations before getting whacked. Still despite he additional HP, using autoplay I once died at LVL 3 from a goblin. It remains a hard game.


So I suggest you try out brogue with the above changes and see how far you get. Maybe if others like it we could release an ebrogue, or add a command line flag for easy mode.


cheers!
 
I agree to some part that the game is pretty hard. On the one hand I find this very thrilling, on the other hand there are often unfair and frustrating situations. I think the most important thing is to choose the right goal. For me right now, it's not really about finishing the game, but getting as far as possible with what I got. Another important thing is to slow down and force yourself to actually think what's best in the current situation. As soon as there is some danger nearby or a fight is not going that easy anymore, you should halt (that's the benefit of a turnbased game) and think about some tactic regarding the current dungeon-layout and your inventory.
Yesterday I had a very fun game. I didn't set a personal record and unfortunately didn't save the replay, but I ran in several near-death situations got somehow out of them and made it a little further than I thought I could anymore. Here is a short story of what happened.

I was somewhere at level 10 or so as suddenly my Naga attacked me. Again I didn't know why, as a heated battle was going on. (reminds me that I wanted to look if there is a way to scroll back in the message-log). Maybe I hit it with the spear. Anyway: I was VERY close to dead with somewhere at 10% health and took a look at my inventory. Screw it. Not really something there I can use. Nothing to teleport, nothing to heal, hmm...wait. an unknown wand...screw it, that can't help me. But hey, it's the only thing i got. So i casted it at the naga and SWOOSH it turned into a rat. lol, lucky me. Well my Naga (or the rat) was dead and there was a wrath running around. My remaining equipment wasn't the best. Especially I made the mistake to wear an unidentify armor and ... screw it it was cursed. But so far no sign of the malevolent force.
Soon later I ran into the wrath. CRAP. and it attacked me. and sparks flew from my armor and flamed me and the wrath. WTF so that's the curse. flames when hit. OK i was again near death. Still nothing to heal ... looks like I'm a goner. But hey! I got that charm of fireresistance and with that helped I again managed to escape. So I ran away an rested somewhere....

Carefully i proceeded, but near a lake I ran into a Dar Blademaster. Oh screw it. I ran away, but ... oh no ... it's faster than me. STOP. THINK. No more resources, no way to run, but... HEY. somewhere to SWIM! I jumped into the water loosing everything I had, but made it to one of the other side. huh? what's that. The Dar teleported over to the other side. How that? Oh..so that's what blink does. I jumped back into the water, though seeing an eel nearby. Luckily it didn't chase me at once. So I swam again to another, different shore. But still the Dar was able to blink. The lake was to small to escape. Anyway I was regenerating health while swimming. Though sometimes the eel came and visited me. Full health. Time to try running again. But the Dar got me. uhm...hey there is a pit!. So I jumped in.

Down there I first managed to kill several more monsters, but in the end I died somehow can't recall how. I had no food left anyway.

So as you can read from the spoiler there is often a way to get on somehow and sometimes you even manage to get back into the game again. Never give up and if you die, then enjoy how far you got.

Today I played the game again. Set a new personal record by making it to level 18. Down there you really have to have some hardcore-knowledge of all tactics and secrets of the game (like stairdancing and character-/ or better equipment-builds). I still have to learn these. This time I recorded the game. Sadly it does not playback on the Pandora for some reason. I recorded it on my PC. If I manage to get it going, then I will upload it.
 
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hm can get it fixed. Probably an issue due to some modification of the Pandora-Brogue. If you want to try to watch it on some x86-platform with a Brogue-version from the homepage then try the recording:

Edit: Link removed since the recording is not playing on the Pandora. Read below.

But I'm not sad if no one is interested. ;) And don't believe that playing it was as easy as watching it is. Took me way longer due to halting for thinking. ;) Although the gameplay on level 2 looks like I didn't think that much. :D
 
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Were you using the same version of Brogue on the desktop? It's possible ARM/x86 is changing the way it reads/writes the replay as well.
 
I am using version 1.7 on both. But someone in Brogue-chat tried my recording on 686. He was able to play to somewhere at step ~10700 before getting an "out of sync"-error. So it worked further but still caused trouble. The whole system is still a bit buggy as it seems.
 
oh well, I guess I have the answer:

<@jday> Ok, so, out of sync errors will be greatly reduced in the next version -- most of them right now go back to rounding errors with floating point arithmetic.  In the meantime, there's rarely much you can do about it.  Did anything unusual happen right before it went oos?
Click to expand...
No surprise that I get "out of sync" directly at frame 0 on the Pandora. :p
 
Ouch... if the replay is simply setting the seed + replaying your actions and the game uses a lot of floating-point math: you'll see major issues when crossing platforms  :)
 
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Although I must admit that I don't fully understand the whole thing. I do understand that it does not work because of the differences in fp-processing of arm- and x86-cpus. But I am surprised that there are differences in the calculation-results at all. Without any further knowledge I so far expected that the way of getting the result differs, but that both architectures get the same result in the end.
 
Lomaxx said:
As soon as there is some danger nearby or a fight is not going that easy anymore, you should halt (that's the benefit of a turnbased game) and think about some tactic regarding the current dungeon-layout and your inventory.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is how to play. But at dungeon Level 3-5 I rarely have items identified that are useful. I mean, one out of three games I will have acquired and identified enough items that I can actually use strategically. The other times I will have nothing usable to defeat an enemy or group. I should probably flee more often and regain HP while leading my attackers through the dungeon.

Lomaxx said:
So as you can read from the spoiler there is often a way to get on somehow and sometimes you even manage to get back into the game again. Never give up and if you die, then enjoy how far you got.


Today I played the game again. Set a new personal record by making it to level 18. Down there you really have to have some hardcore-knowledge of all tactics and secrets of the game (like stairdancing and character-/ or better equipment-builds).
Click to expand...
Wow.. I'll be glad to watch a replay if you ever get a good recording on Pandora. My problem with the stock game is just dying at Level 4-5 every time. I don't have enough good items to have any tactics available.

With my easy-mode doubled heal rate, fleeing to regain HP becomes more doable (and doesnt lead to starvation problems). Also easy-mode means you don't get as many useless/impossible game starts due to finding bad items at the beginning - you have more time to gather a usable arsenal of items before running into situations that require them.


You know what item is great? Ring of clairivoyance - allows you to see through adjacent walls. Enchanted twice, I could see everything in a 5 tile radius. Really helped finding secret doors.


oh well, brogue onwards
 
The other times I will have nothing usable to defeat an enemy or group. I should probably flee more often and regain HP while leading my attackers through the dungeon.
Click to expand...

I do have these problems too. Not every game of mine is a big success.  And often I am not patient enough to rest too, saying to myself "Ah well, now the enemy is dead. You can heal while exploring.". Sometimes that's a false assumption. :)   And about identifying objects: There are too few identify-scrolls, yes. Another thing that i like and hate about the game. I have a few rules in order to help myself a little regarding this problem:

- In general: Shift+D is your friend. You can determine any time if it's worth trying out a potion or scroll.

- potions: up to maybe level 4 I directly drink them all. At least until I have found the strength- and life-potions. Even that potion of incineration will not kill you at full health. And on the first levels you usually can dare trying. You can also reduce risk by trying to drink an unknown potion nearby water in order to distinguish the flames. But not too close or you will be damaged by steam caused by the potion-flames in the water. You can also go a level up or nearby stairs leading down in order to minimize the problems of drinking a potion of descent.

 Once I found the most important benevolent potions, I start throwing unkown potions at enemies. That will not help identifying some of the potions, but is always fun if you find out that it has been a potion of incineration, paralyze, descent, confusion. But once i found incineration I try out the others and take the disadvantage of the others. Depends on the level I am at. You can also wait testing potions until the start of a level 3 or so (or one with a treasure room) because if you drink a potion of detect magic you will have roughly identified all items in your backpack as well. hm now that I write it...I think I have to start testing potions later than I did so far. ;)

- scrolls: In general they are less dangerous to test. The biggest danger is on more advanced levels, when reading aggrevate, summon or cause fear if you have an ally. The bigger loss is to waste a scroll of enchant or identify. That's why I do not use them directly, but wait until I got at least one item that I REALLY want to identify or enchant.

- armor and weapons: Some armors and weapon do not have runics at all. Like platearmor. You can partially identify by carrying them after sorting out cursed once with a potion of detect magic.

- staffs: can be tested on monsters most of the time.

- wands: should not be tested that way, but the wikie mentions something about testing them on caged creatures: http://brogue.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Wand

- rings: try to roughly identify them with a potion of detect magic, then wear the good ones.

- items of a treasure-room: You can not determine if the are enchanted or cursed, but you can pick them up to get a more precise description. If it's not good at all, then drop it again and take something from a different altar.

Again this is not a guarantee for success and some (if not all) is not so special, but helps a little. Maybe some are bad as there are better ways. Then let me know.

Other helpful things (that you might know already):

- if you attack monsters diagonal  they less likely notice you while approaching. At least that's what the wiki says.

- slimes: A newly cloned slime get's the HP of the old one. So it helps to make an ambushed attack on the first one. I often fighten them in a tight walkway with a door in your back.

- make use of the different weapon types. My favorite weapon so far is the spear, as it attacks two enemies in a row. The axe is useful for slimes and groups, but (i think) dangerous with allies around. Got no experience with hammers and maces (both slow and strong), rapiers (fast, but weak).

- from level 5 (or so) onward I frequently search for traps and secret doors unless I am very short on food. That ring of awareness is great there.

I'll have to try a ring of clairvoyance after your description. Sounds interesting too. Though I am not sure if I would use enchantments on it. Depends on the situation I guess. And I will now play on the Pandora again and try to upload a recording. Not sure how helpful it will be. I noticed that playing on the Pandora draws much more attention and tires faster with the graphics being much smaller.
 
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I very much like getting healing rings. If you enchant them enough you regain fast really fast just backing away during a fight.

Charms of healing or teleport are also good for getting out of tight situations.
 
My last postings might have sound like I am often having good runs. So I wanted to cheer up anyone having bad luck: Today I only had bad runs too. Deepest run was level 8 or so. Two runs were quiet promising, but I screwed it. Bummer.

One time I died only due to my stubborn mind while fighting a single oger without retreating when it was necessary. One time I found 6 rings on the first three floors (where 4 of them where in a treasure-room where I could choose a single one), but still I was not able to get into the game. In another game I had a really large set of staffs and wands (1 obstructive, 2 tunneling, 1 blinking, 2 firebolt, 1 haste (for ally, which I couldn't find) and two piles of these burning darts. Felt like a firestarter. But somewhere at level 6 there was a bunch of goblins (including magic-caster) close to the entrance of the map. I didn't choose the right tactic and died. Also because I tested potions before, drank a potion of darkness and didn't feel like waiting because food was already low. I ran around for too long searching for the best equipment.
 
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Oh my: Entering the seed from the weekend-competition results in a different start-dungeon than the one shown in the screenshot. This is probably due to the same rounding-differences in the floating-point-maths that also bring the "out-of-sync-"-error when trying to playback recording made with my x86-brogue.

 So maybe my feeling that the game is harder on the Pandora is not a false feeling.
 
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