Battery is damaged, but working: need advice on replacement

[Aethix]

I noticed a slight bulge in the battery cover of my Pandora. After ignoring it for a few weeks,I opened it up to investigate and noticed that the black wrapping on the Pandora's battery was peeling off a bit around one of the edges, exposing some sort of white surface just beneath. The battery still seems to be working, although I haven't seen the charge meter above 90% ever since I noticed the bulge.


I know I need to replace my battery, but how urgent is it that I do so? Can I continue to use the Pandora for a few weeks without risking any sort of damage?


Also, where is the best place for somebody in the U.S. to order a replacement battery?


In one week, I'm going to travel to a different location and spend a week there, so is it possible for me to guarantee when I order the battery that it will arrive in two weeks or less? I'd like to send it to the second location if I can.


Thanks.

 

[gruso]

I would rate that as highly urgent. I don't think you should use the battery in that state.


Contact Link at www.ithic.com for US support.

 

[Darkknight512]

I would also highly recommend not to use the battery. Lipo batteries are highly flammable. Most "soft case" lipo batteries will bulge a little under charge and high load, but any excessive bulging shows that the battery is not functioning properly and is highly dangerous. The Pandora charges the battery at a low rate, so there should be no bulging at all.


Order a replacement battery from ED, he will probably chime in sometime soon in this thread.


This is the precise reason I don't like LiPo batteries and I can't wait until the main market switches to LiFePO4, I have large high discharge LiPo batteries for my RC-Quadcopter and honestly I am terrified of those batteries.

 

[Aethix]

I would also highly recommend not to use the battery. Lipo batteries are highly flammable. Most "soft case" lipo batteries will bulge a little under charge and high load, but any excessive bulging shows that the battery is not functioning properly and is highly dangerous. The Pandora charges the battery at a low rate, so there should be no bulging at all.


Order a replacement battery from ED, he will probably chime in sometime soon in this thread.


This is the precise reason I don't like LiPo batteries and I can't wait until the main market switches to LiFePO4, I have large high discharge LiPo batteries for my RC-Quadcopter and honestly I am terrified of those batteries.

The battery itself isn't bulging, the plastic wrapping that peeled off is just pushing the battery cover out, causing the compartment to bulge.


Anyways, I've shut down my Pandora and contacted itchic.com.

 

[wdt]

I will add a 3rd as to danger, Might be as high as 1%.


More than 1 car, more than 1 house have been lost to lipo fires


(this is the RC guys, batterys used hard, improper charge, etc)


Is it damaged?


That it won't charge above 90% suggests that it is


>Anyways, I've shut down my Pandora


A fire-safe place is a (dry) sink


Run it until battery is flat?


That would be safer


Will it run without battery?

 

[Darkknight512]

Improper charging and discharging a LiPo battery is just terrifying. I have my LiPo's stored and charged in thick fireproof bags. Charging is done with the charger connected through an FTDI (serial) to my computer showing me all the stats and the program has alarms for any reading that is not normal.


Be careful with LiPo batteries, they can easily kill you if you don't handle them properly.

 

[Link]

I got your email regarding a battery replacement. I don't have any extra in stock at the moment. I am hoping that ED will ship me some in the first batch of Pandoras coming from Germany in the next week or so. I will have extras then.

 

[Aethix]

Okay, in the meantime, I've heard it's possible to use the pandora while it's plugged in and doesn't have a battery inside it, but not recommended. Since I'm using Anki on it, I'd like to at least be able to use it for a little less than an hour each day. What are the risks of using it without the battery, and what special precautions should I take if I do use it without the battery?

 

[Prometheus]

As far as I know, there isn't any risk associated with using it without a battery - it's just that some units plain won't work without one, whilst others will.


Incidentally, should I be worried? The battery in my current Pandora has always had a slight bit of label-peel in one corner and still does (it came that way - I've never touched the label), but it's never caused any bulging or any other issues. It charges normally, all the way to 100%, as it should. Is there some inherent problem with the label peeling slightly? (Even though once, it was something people were recommended to carefully do on the end of the battery with the contacts on it, if it was preventing contact from being made.)

 

[gruso]

There is one precaution to take when running from AC only: http://pandorawiki.o...daptor_alone.3F

IF YOU POWERED THE SYSTEM WITHOUT A BATTERY, SHUT IT OFF BEFORE STICKING THE BATTERY BACK IN.

Prom: I think a bit of label peel on its own is fine. Just a bit of under-performing adhesive syndrome Unless it looks to be caused by heat or other stress

 

[Prometheus]

Oh, crap. Sorry, sorry... I forgot the battery caveat! :blink: I just kind of figured it was common sense not to hook up a battery to an already-running system... ^_^ Sorry about that!


@Gru - Oh, nah, this is blatantly just iffy adhesive. It came like that. Good to know that - thanks!

 

[Aethix]

Thanks, I have two last questions for running the Pandora. When I plug it in, will it turn on automatically? If so, does that also mean it's impossible to do a "proper" shutdown when running directly from AC power?

 

[gruso]

That's correct, it will always boot right up again if power is connected. So if you're running from AC and need to shut down, I guess some good timing needs to be used to yank the cable!


This is typical of ARM devices. Phones and tablets behave the same, except they have a standby kernel which allows them to be awake and charging without actually booting up. It's not trivial to implement. I'm not sure if the new standby mode we have in Zaxxon 1.5 beta could lead to something like this on the Pandora.

 

[diligentcircle]

This is the precise reason I don't like LiPo batteries and I can't wait until the main market switches to LiFePO4, I have large high discharge LiPo batteries for my RC-Quadcopter and honestly I am terrified of those batteries.

Can they actually be a replacement for LiPo batteries? I know that the biggest advantage of LiPo batteries is being easier to shape than normal Li-ion batteries. I see no mention of anything like this on the Wikipedia article for LiFePO4 batteries.

 

[Darkknight512]

LiFePO4 batteries come in the same forms of packaging as LiPo batteries. Only difference is a slightly lower nominal cell voltage of 3.3v (LiPo= 3.7), and slightly lower capacity. However, the oxygen(?) bonds are much more stable and this makes the battery much safer.


Also, LiFePO4 batteries can tend to take more charge and discharge cycles.

 

[wdt]

I will 2nd this


> much more stable and this makes the battery much safer


A great deal safer


They can be overcharged with very small chance of danger


(what is C rate? A very high C (2+) might be dangerous in an overcharge situation)


They can have high C for charge and discharge, not all, but most do


The only danger is if there is an external short


They are very rugged


Up to 2000 cycles (compare to LiCoO @ 300-500 cycles)


(and you only get 500 if you baby it)

 

[diligentcircle]

Interesting. So what's keeping industries from using them? Cost?

 

[Darkknight512]

Interesting. So what's keeping industries from using them? Cost?

I think its just because it is a new development and LiFePO4 batteries are just slowly taking over.

 

[Exophase]

That's correct, it will always boot right up again if power is connected. So if you're running from AC and need to shut down, I guess some good timing needs to be used to yank the cable!


This is typical of ARM devices. Phones and tablets behave the same, except they have a standby kernel which allows them to be awake and charging without actually booting up. It's not trivial to implement. I'm not sure if the new standby mode we have in Zaxxon 1.5 beta could lead to something like this on the Pandora.

Charging mode on phones is also a pain in the ass, because it means if you run your phone dry you have to charge it for a certain amount of time before being able to use it as a phone again. Or at least you do on mine.


It'd be nice if the bootloader did have a charge mode, but only if you could easily get out of it (or had to explicitly get into it)

 

[Aethix]

Prometheus talking about her battery label peeling raised some doubts, and looking at my battery when I took it out to dispose of it strengthened them. I have some pictures (which I should have taken from the very beginning, but it didn't occur to me) of the affected area, does it look like it's just the label peeling due to weak adhesive, or is it still a problem that makes the battery unable to be safely used? I apologize for the low quality of the pictures, and also the fact that they're upside-down.











I really should have done this to start with.