Arm Vs Ti

[xinfernoofdantex]

ok, so i' about to get an htc wizard and im curious if anyone knows how the 195 MHz Texas Instruments OMAP850 stacks up against the gp2x's 200mhz arm9's

 

[TelcoLou]

... about 5mhz less.

</rimshot>

 

[Yono]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_OMAP

OMAP850 - ARM9 + EDGE digital baseband

 

[Epicenter]

Texas Instruments' recent OMAP lines use predominantly ARM processors. They're just SoCs (systems-on-a-chip), rather than actual distinct CPUs. All records I see indicate the OMAP850 supports up to a 200 MHz ARM926EJ-S processor, so roughly on par with the advantage of native Java code execution (Jazelle). May I ask why you want to know how it'll perform compared? Do you intend to do media playback on it or something; since the PocketPC platform doesn't have the same software support the GP2X does (its emulation scene is especially horrifically lacking.)

 

[xinfernoofdantex]

well yea, thats why i wanted to know, i planned on using it as an alternative for emulation along with my psp and gp2x

 

[Yono]

well yea, thats why i wanted to know, i planned on using it as an alternative for emulation along with my psp and gp2x

If you wanted another device for emulation, why not a Gizmondo or Zodiac?

 

[Epicenter]

Let me stress how bad the PocketPC emulation scene is. A 200 MHz ARM9 is scarcely enough to emulate the damn Game Boy or NES. SNES emulation is piteously unplayably slow on such a chip. And MegaDrive/Genesis emulation gives you 3 nice choices. A broken emulator that is slow and only works on a couple of PocketPCs (old iPaqs) and is discontinued, a fast emulator that is horribly inaccurate (in Ecco for examples all the dolphins face random directions and random tiles fly through the sky), has no sound emulation and is discontinued, or an emulator that is more accurate but extremely slow with sound and barely acceptable speed without sound.

They're mostly godawful-slow C-only emulators that no one maintains and that were last updated years ago. The GP2X is the apex of development for ARM platforms as far as emulation goes at the moment.

 

[DaveC]

I have played emus on most of these devices including the zodiac etc. Other than the GP2X the only other one that is comparable (better in some like SNES) is the PSP.

So xinfernoofdantex you already have the best two at the moment.

 

[jadon]

Texas Instruments' recent OMAP lines use predominantly ARM processors. They're just SoCs (systems-on-a-chip), rather than actual distinct CPUs. All records I see indicate the OMAP850 supports up to a 200 MHz ARM926EJ-S processor, so roughly on par with the advantage of native Java code execution (Jazelle). May I ask why you want to know how it'll perform compared? Do you intend to do media playback on it or something; since the PocketPC platform doesn't have the same software support the GP2X does (its emulation scene is especially horrifically lacking.)

The OMAP850 has a 200MHz ARM9, but it looks like the HTC Wizard is only running it at 195MHz. That likely has something to do with some other component in the system. In addition to the Jazelle advantage, there is also a different 2D graphics accelerator than what is on the GP2X.

Of course, what I really want to see is a version of the GP2X that uses TI's OMAP3430 or DaVinci parts. The OMAP3430 has a 3D accelerator and is faster than the ARM11! DaVinci is offered in the catalog market, runs a 300MHz ARM9, and includes extensive audio/video algorithms and acceleration with a open source Linux port.

I'd guess that it'd probably be easier for someone to make a DaVinci-based GP2X follow-on, if they could get TI to donate one of there development platforms to the effort (since the OMAP3430 isn't a available to the general public right now). Late last year Linuevices did a write-up on DaVinci and said the development board would cost $2000.

 

[Orkie]

Let me stress how bad the PocketPC emulation scene is. A 200 MHz ARM9 is scarcely enough to emulate the damn Game Boy or NES. SNES emulation is piteously unplayably slow on such a chip. And MegaDrive/Genesis emulation gives you 3 nice choices. A broken emulator that is slow and only works on a couple of PocketPCs (old iPaqs) and is discontinued, a fast emulator that is horribly inaccurate (in Ecco for examples all the dolphins face random directions and random tiles fly through the sky), has no sound emulation and is discontinued, or an emulator that is more accurate but extremely slow with sound and barely acceptable speed without sound.

They're mostly godawful-slow C-only emulators that no one maintains and that were last updated years ago. The GP2X is the apex of development for ARM platforms as far as emulation goes at the moment.

Strange, I have seen a very good PSX emulator for Pocket PC's with 3D chips around (just a shame about the controls).

 

[Epicenter]

I must've missed that one but either way my PDAs lacked 3D functionality-- the PSX emulator was approaching playability but highly unstable.

As for the OMAP3430. I looked into that one-- staggerngly powerful chip but it will be extremely expensive. I recommended to Craig for the next console the OMAP2430 with a ~330 MHz ARM11, FPU/Vector processor, 2D/3D accelerator with a rendering rate of 2 Million triangles/sec but it was going to be very, very expensive. A phone based on this SoC is over $600 on average even on eBay!

This is why I settled on recommending Samsung's S3C2460 with a 266 Mhz ARM9ES-J, AFP9 FPU/Vector processor, 2D/3D GPU (MBX Lite from PowerVR, ~1 million triangles/sec) as it was a good comprimise, cost much less and was readily available. Maybe he will take my advice, maybe not-- he now refuses to speak to me however for allegedly revealing too much info, such as GPH's plans to produce a new machine in the near future, after he TOLD me to post a GP32X thread asking which SoC was preferred by the community. Ah well.

In either case, Gamepark has informed me they have intended to use the S3C2460 in their next generation of hardware presumably after the XGP. Seems we're on the same wavelength; I'm looking forward to what they cook up with it. It'd be a real beast of a machine, that's for sure.

 

[sam fisher]

So even though Craig said that they aren't planning on releaseing a new one soon, they are? This is going to piss off some programmers who are just getting their applications working great on the GP2x's limited hardware. But then again, they may be happy to have a more powerful platform readily available if th GP2x's bottlenecks are just too much.

 

[telegramguy]

Let me stress how bad the PocketPC emulation scene is. A 200 MHz ARM9 is scarcely enough to emulate the damn Game Boy or NES. SNES emulation is piteously unplayably slow on such a chip. And MegaDrive/Genesis

Strange, I have seen a very good PSX emulator for Pocket PC's with 3D chips around (just a shame about the controls).

Orkie, do you have a URL to a video of a good psx emulator running on one of these pocket pc's? it'd be nice to have have this influence my next pda purchase.

 

[Epicenter]

So even though Craig said that they aren't planning on releaseing a new one soon, they are? This is going to piss off some programmers who are just getting their applications working great on the GP2x's limited hardware. But then again, they may be happy to have a more powerful platform readily available if th GP2x's bottlenecks are just too much.

Well, what he posted and what he told me in person are 2 very different things; let's just say that. And he posted that after refusing to speak to me again. I'm mostly just excited about the possibility of a high-speed 2D accelerator on GPH or GamePark's next handheld. So long as it supports SDL, is (ideally) Linux-based I'll have loads of fun bringing Stargazer and our other works over to it with greater potential for more dazzling 2D visuals. I don't care what company it comes from ... I just want to develop great software.

 

[icurafu]

Let me stress how bad the PocketPC emulation scene is. A 200 MHz ARM9 is scarcely enough to emulate the damn Game Boy or NES. SNES emulation is piteously unplayably slow on such a chip. And MegaDrive/Genesis

Strange, I have seen a very good PSX emulator for Pocket PC's with 3D chips around (just a shame about the controls).

Orkie, do you have a URL to a video of a good psx emulator running on one of these pocket pc's? it'd be nice to have have this influence my next pda purchase.

http://www.fpsece.net/

Should be updated again soon. Currently it has issues with WM5 and for me it was just a pain running it on my PDA. Ran fine, but no controls. bluetooth keyboard had like a second of lag.

 

[critical]

I actually have an HTC Wizard (I'm writing this post using it). The keyboard's great, wifi works very well, and the screen's nice and bright.

It is not a gaming handheld - nothing anyone could do would persuade me to use the navigator pad for playing arcade games. Scummvm, yes. Text adventures also a big yes.

The processor's not that snappy, although it can be overclocked if the need arises (for using skype, for example). For the reasons others gave I don't think its emu scene is that impressive, but obviously that could improve. It covers a wide range of machines, but not always that well. The input method is the deal-breaker for me.

I've played a few divx files (320x240) over wifi on it using tcpmp, and they worked perfectly. Obviously the gp2x's hardware decoding handles things without having to re-encode them, which is a great thing. I didn't even contemplate trying that on my Wizard.

It's comparing apples and oranges really.

 

[jadon]

I must've missed that one but either way my PDAs lacked 3D functionality-- the PSX emulator was approaching playability but highly unstable.

As for the OMAP3430. I looked into that one-- staggerngly powerful chip but it will be extremely expensive. I recommended to Craig for the next console the OMAP2430 with a ~330 MHz ARM11, FPU/Vector processor, 2D/3D accelerator with a rendering rate of 2 Million triangles/sec but it was going to be very, very expensive. A phone based on this SoC is over $600 on average even on eBay!

This is why I settled on recommending Samsung's S3C2460 with a 266 Mhz ARM9ES-J, AFP9 FPU/Vector processor, 2D/3D GPU (MBX Lite from PowerVR, ~1 million triangles/sec) as it was a good comprimise, cost much less and was readily available. Maybe he will take my advice, maybe not-- he now refuses to speak to me however for allegedly revealing too much info, such as GPH's plans to produce a new machine in the near future, after he TOLD me to post a GP32X thread asking which SoC was preferred by the community. Ah well.

In either case, Gamepark has informed me they have intended to use the S3C2460 in their next generation of hardware presumably after the XGP. Seems we're on the same wavelength; I'm looking forward to what they cook up with it. It'd be a real beast of a machine, that's for sure.

Well, I suspect the price of those phones might have at least as much to do with recouping the software design costs as it does with the cost of the SoC. TI also has an OMAP2420 which removes the 600MHz DSP, but still has video acceleration, 2D/3D graphics (I think the same as OMAP2430), and a ~330MHz ARM11. I'd be interested to see how that compares to the Samsung device. Even the DaVinci part (DM6446) is around $35 and seems to be faster than the Samsung (~300MHz ARM9 vs 266MHz), but lacks the 3D engine unless someone codes one up on the DSP (instead of just video/audio).

I guess I'm a bit biased since I know some folks at TI (that I'd be happy for Craig to meet), but I'd hate to see Gamepark settle on anything without finding out for sure that it'd cost too much.

 

[Epicenter]

My main reason for recommending the S3C2460 over a TI OMAP part was that they have bought from Samsung before for the GP32, and they'd be able to help make up for the relatively low quantity of SoCs they'd be buying by picking up a batch or two of Samsung LCD displays which are usually of very high quality anyway. Also the difference in price between the ARM11-powered OMAP SoC-based products and Samsung S3C2460-based ones was DRAMATIC. So I'm inclined to lean away from the theory that other components in the phone would've made that large a difference.

 

[Ranma13]

I owned an Axim X50V before. The NES emulator I tried was full speed with no frameskip, and the SNES ran full speed with sound with minimal frameskip. I also tried FPSECE but it's about on par with how fast the current PSX4ALL runs (non-dynarec one). But FPSECE development moves at a snail's pace and I doubt if it'll ever get to full speed.