GP2X Any Serious Obstacles Against A Nintendo Ds Emu?

[worldwriter]

You are partly right, but morally... Did the dev get any more use out of you buying that game second hand than he would have if you had pirated it?

no.

In fact, he got less use out of it because you just spent money he could have gotten from you for products he has in the store now. Resells mean nothing to him, he wanted that money you just spent on a product he already got paid for.

Products that are no longer sold brand new but are still sold as used, add needless competition to game market. Stores like Bestbuy, Gamestop and EB are just as much stress on the games industry by putting used games at discouted prices in their stores to compete with games the devs can actually make money off of.

 

[Tobriand]

But interestingly, did you know that it is, regardless of whether its installed on your own PC or not, illegal to lend software - and believe it or not, DVDs as well?

Only discovered that recently, although for DVDs, since it doesn't forbid reselling in the standard license, you could probably get away with selling it under IOU on the condtion that you'd be willing to take it back for an equal sum - equivalent to a loan, but there's a theoretical transaction involved.

 

[worldwriter]

interesting...

I guess my point is... Pirating snes and pirating DS are not the same set of ethics.

existing SNES games have no more value to Nintendo whether they are crushed up and put in a landfill or resold at Bestbuy

(In fact Nintendo would probably prefer they go in the landfill, that way they won't suck money out of current Nintendo sales)

DS and GBA games still contribute to Nintendo cash flow and pirating them actually hurts Nintendo's cash flow.

So, yes, all pirating is technically wrong... but pirating games that can still be bought from the original dev actually hurts the industry.

 

[Ravnos]

You are partly right, but morally... Did the dev get any more use out of you buying that game second hand than he would have if you had pirated it?

So wait, let me get this straight. You're trying to pass off "morality" as law?

More to the point, by me selling the game, I no longer have a copy of it. If someone else buys my copy, that's a simple transfer of title and rights. The dev may not have made any money but it's not a "lost sale" in the sense that piracy is. Should nobody buy used cars? Ford didn't get any money from me when I bought my Mustang.

 

[worldwriter]

its more than a lost sale

it's spent money that didn't go toward a product they could make money from...

and yes... a car company would rather that you buy a car from them than one they have already sold to someone else.

Think about it... a game company makes no more money from that copy of Chrono Trigger that you bought off ebay than they did from the one you got off of what ever website...

with the exception that with the money you spent on buying it you could have bought a brand new game from them.

How do you think Ford would feel if every car dealer started trying to sell Vintage mustangs more forcefully and at cheaper prices than the brand new line?

but anyway...I only poked my head up out of the sand to make the point that emulating systems that the dev doesn't sell anymore is ok.

actually... I just thought of something....

lets use your car example...

Let's say some guy decides to start recreating Model T Fords using blueprints and diagrams to make them just like the old factory used to make them... and he hands them out or sells them cheaply to anyone who wants one... Ford isn't going to be too upset about this development....

Now lets say this same guy learns how to mass produce perfect replicas of 2005 Mustangs for $5 bucks a pop... and he starts giving them out and selling them for cost.... how quick is he going to have lawyers at his door in that scenario?

There are different levels of urgency on the different types of piracy.

 

[Ravnos]

lets use your car example...

Let's say some guy decides to start recreating Model T Fords using blueprints and diagrams to make them just like the old factory used to make them... and he hands them out or sells them cheaply to anyone who wants one... Ford isn't going to be too upset about this development....

The first part has been happening for years. In fact you can now buy a 1969 Camaro that has NO factory GM parts on it. 32-34 Fords have been replicated for years. None of this has had an effect on new car sales. The second part is implausible because of the expense of raw materials alone in automobile construction. But that has nothing to do with my point. My point was that buying/selling used games is not morally wrong. Ford might prefer that I purchase a new car but the 1990 I bought 3 years ago certainly isn't going to put them out of business or drive up the cost of new cars.

Now lets say this same guy learns how to mass produce perfect replicas of 2005 Mustangs for $5 bucks a pop... and he starts giving them out and selling them for cost.... how quick is he going to have lawyers at his door in that scenario?

​

Which again has nothing to do with my point. I had no argument against the piracy of new games or even the piracy of old out of print games. My point is that buying used games is no more wrong than buying used ANYTHING is. If you think it is, you'd better buy everything you own new, from your house to your car to your computer to everything else. Otherwise you're taking money out of someone else's pocket, right?

 

[worldwriter]

You too missed my point... pirating old games that can not be bought new is no worse than buying old games that can not be bought new.

It isn't difficult to see that downloading a rom for nes or snes is not nearly as bad as downloading a game that can EASILY be bought in the store.

Basicly the rule should be, if you can buy it, do so. If you can't... download it... just don't tell the whole world about it.

and the same thing goes for guys who are paying student loans, working a crap job despite a good education or trying to make sure his kids come first on a limited budget... if you have priorities such as bill paying and mouths to feed and that new game is going to mean one utility bill will go unpaid... download it and to hell with anyone who says you are breaking laws or immoral.

But... if you are a kid who lives at home and has no real financial responsibilities... and cash flow... buy the damn game. Same goes if you and your signifigant other are childless and duel income... buy your games.

Every person is different but the bottom line should always be the same... if you can live with yourself or justify your actions to yourself, download a game. It really doesn't matter what high horse me or some other guy gets on... they are all right answers... just for different people.

The only person i have to be able to look in the eye at the end of the day is me, and I have never been able to justify downloading a gba game for my computer... doesn't mean its wrong to do... just wrong for me... I meanwhile have a complete snes collection and a complete nes collection... that might be wrong for someone else...

 

[Ravnos]

You too missed my point... pirating old games that can not be bought new is no worse than buying old games that can not be bought new.

​

No I didn't. That has nothing to do with my argument. You said that buying used games is as bad as piracy, and more to the point you said it was illegal. You never specified "old" games in your statement. I agree that pirating old out-of-print games is no worse than buying them used, but buying is legal, and buying/selling used games that are still being made is not "morally wrong" as long as there's no piracy involved.

 

[lubidog]

You too missed my point... pirating old games that can not be bought new is no worse than buying old games that can not be bought new.

It isn't difficult to see that downloading a rom for nes or snes is not nearly as bad as downloading a game that can EASILY be bought in the store.

Basicly the rule should be, if you can buy it, do so. If you can't... download it... just don't tell the whole world about it.

and the same thing goes for guys who are paying student loans, working a crap job despite a good education or trying to make sure his kids come first on a limited budget... if you have priorities such as bill paying and mouths to feed and that new game is going to mean one utility bill will go unpaid... download it and to hell with anyone who says you are breaking laws or immoral.

But... if you are a kid who lives at home and has no real financial responsibilities... and cash flow... buy the damn game. Same goes if you and your signifigant other are childless and duel income... buy your games.

Every person is different but the bottom line should always be the same... if you can live with yourself or justify your actions to yourself, download a game. It really doesn't matter what high horse me or some other guy gets on... they are all right answers... just for different people.

The only person i have to be able to look in the eye at the end of the day is me, and I have never been able to justify downloading a gba game for my computer... doesn't mean its wrong to do... just wrong for me... I meanwhile have a complete snes collection and a complete nes collection... that might be wrong for someone else...

​

Interseting discussion, and both making good points.

But this post sums it all up for me. Every point well made, and as far as I can see, unarguable with.

 

[digitaljez]

Sorry to drag this up but it cannot be left as unarguable that pirating software is justified if you happen to be in reduced circumstances. You might excuse someone stealing food to feed their nippers in cases of extreme hardship but it would still be stealing. Luxury items like ROMS - I don't think so.

ROMs cannot be 'stolen' (nothing is 'taken' or 'removed'), but its violation of licensing and intellectual property rights.

​

You are using a very limited definition of stealing to make this point. Try defining stealing as 'acquiring something of value without paying for it, thus depriving the creator of income'. It is a violation of licensing and intellectual property rights because it is stealing.

Basicly the rule should be, if you can buy it, do so. If you can't... download it... just don't tell the whole world about it.

​

Try applying this to any other commodity, let us say a car. Obviously you can not download a car, so what word would you need to replace 'download' with ?

Basicly the rule IS if you can buy it, do so. If you can't, save up or do without. It is a basic principal underlying our civilised consumer driven society.

Because software is not a tangible object, and is easy to copy does not make it any less valuable to those who spend so much time developing it as a way to make a living. We may resent paying the prices charged by the giants but at the bottom of the heap there are the actual developers, mere employees, who will be out of a job if the software isn't making a return for the company.

 

[TheTurnipKing]

You'd have to be out of your mind to try emulating the DS on anything other than a personal computer. There you could emulate the dual screens easily enough with a high resolution, the microphone needn't be an issue and you could use a mouse to simulate the touch screen. Even there though, you'd still have issues with games like Another Code, that use the hinged screens in odd ways.

 

[lubidog]

You'd have to be out of your mind to try emulating the DS on anything other than a personal computer. There you could emulate the dual screens easily enough with a high resolution, the microphone needn't be an issue and you could use a mouse to simulate the touch screen. Even there though, you'd still have issues with games like Another Code, that use the hinged screens in odd ways.

​

That hinged screen thing drove me nuts!!!

 

[junker]

yep, world writer brought some good arguments in his last post, but the last thing that ravnos said is true as well; while buying old games isn't any better than downloading them for the original devs, it's not pointless to buy old games and in no way illegal.

but, yeah, back to the original discussion, downloading old games is definitey not the same as downloading new ones.