Angstrom - Alternate Insallation Possible?

[Grench]

I do not have my Pandora yet. I'm trying to make sense of the install possibilities before it gets here so I have a plan.


OK, so I've decided to go with Angstrom - but, frankly, I don't want it running in the NAND. Too limiting.


I -do- want to use OPL's image and stay up on hot fixes - but I want to install it differently.


Here's how I would like to do it:


I have a 32GB Class 10 SDHC card to put in slot 1 - I might even put a dot of Epoxy on the edge to make it stay in.


Install entire OS and all applications to card in slot 1.


Boot from slot 1.


Use NAND as /SWAP.


Shuffle data in/out through slot 2, network and USB.


Having to have ED ship a specially configured SD card to Craig in order to install the OS does not portend well for me being able to make the above install. At some point will we have an, "OpenPandora Angstrom Release for Pandora" CD image that we can make our own custom (as far as what gets put where) installation?


Has anyone set up this way yet? How hard is it to get there from start?

 

[Prometheus]

As far as I'm aware, this is quite easy to do, and I'm pretty sure that a number of people are running from SD Cards at the moment (although I'm not too sure about the NAND-as-swap thing myself... ). You may want to avoid the epoxy thing, just in case you run into any hardware issues that might require the unit to be sent in - there's no danger of the card getting popped out by mistake, as I would say that it takes a little bit of effort to take a card out (and the slots are indented, so it's very, very difficult to accidentally eject them).


Don't worry about the card that ED has to ship to Craig - that's unrelated to how easy it is for an end-user to run an operating system from an SD Card. The reason for that, I gather, is that a card has to be set up in a particular way in order to flash the base OS and all that other stuff to the units.


Have a read of this - it should put you on the right track.

 

[EvilDragon]

Having to have ED ship a specially configured SD card to Craig in order to install the OS does not portend well for me being able to make the above install. At some point will we have an, "OpenPandora Angstrom Release for Pandora" CD image that we can make our own custom (as far as what gets put where) installation?

This is only needed if no bootloader is on the Pandora. Yours will have a bootloader already installed.


Basically, all you need to do is format your card as EXT2, extract the filesystem there (they are available at http://openpandora.org/firmware/) and put the card into the Pandora to boot.


That's it

 

[Grench]

As far as I'm aware, this is quite easy to do, and I'm pretty sure that a number of people are running from SD Cards at the moment (although I'm not too sure about the NAND-as-swap thing myself... ). You may want to avoid the epoxy thing, just in case you run into any hardware issues that might require the unit to be sent in - there's no danger of the card getting popped out by mistake, as I would say that it takes a little bit of effort to take a card out (and the slots are indented, so it's very, very difficult to accidentally eject them).

Sounds good on not having to nail it down - but the intent is pretty clear. Have an SDHC card that doesn't leave the unit.

Don't worry about the card that ED has to ship to Craig - that's unrelated to how easy it is for an end-user to run an operating system from an SD Card. The reason for that, I gather, is that a card has to be set up in a particular way in order to flash the base OS and all that other stuff to the units.

In theory we have an open platform (OpenPandora console) running an open OS (Angstrom Linux). Why should there need to be a 'special SD card' that we can't download an image for? Frankly, I think we should have all of the parts out in GPL to go from bare metal to functioning systems. What is the secret sauce on this referenced SD card?

Have a read of this - it should put you on the right track.

Thank you for that link - that gets it there by essentially copying the installed image over to the SD card then ignoring the onboard NAND. Isn't someone who does that though essentially out of luck if/when updates are released?


Why wouldn't you use the onboard NAND for /SWAP? It has to go somewhere - and it runs on there stock, it just doesn't have any room to do anything.


I guess what I'm still after is a media image of something that will install the OpenPandora version of Angstrom Linux on a Pandora that has been subjected to a complete wipe - with the ability to install the OS folders to specific media targets. Who knows? I might want to put /OPT on the card in slot 2 and never eject either card.


Having the OS and apps and swap all piled into that tiny NAND and leaving gigantic SD cards for nothing but application data seems too restrictive. Once I'm out of the NAND and onto SD cards - I don't want to waste the NAND - and it would make a great /SWAP - so why not?

 

[Grench]

This is only needed if no bootloader is on the Pandora. Yours will have a bootloader already installed.

If we somehow manage to destroy or corrupt our bootloader?

Basically, all you need to do is format your card as EXT2, extract the filesystem there (they are available at http://openpandora.org/firmware/) and put the card into the Pandora to boot.
That's it

That is what I was after. Thank you.


Now to just get an actual Pandora - then I can start to weave my evil plan... OK, so it isn't that evil in the grand scheme of things - and what good is a plan if you don't have the materials to put it into action. That means it isn't even an evil plan so much as an evil dream - and how evil can a dream really be anyway? It's not like it's going to jump out and hurt anyone... (Sound fades as I wander off blathering to myself...)

 

[Prometheus]

In theory we have an open platform (OpenPandora console) running an open OS (Angstrom Linux). Why should there need to be a 'special SD card' that we can't download an image for? Frankly, I think we should have all of the parts out in GPL to go from bare metal to functioning systems. What is the secret sauce on this referenced SD card?

There's nothing special about it - it's just the circumstances. Craig's flashing card got corrupted, and, well, I'll just quote from another thread, as it sums it up nicely;

No secret, there are guides for the Beagleboard floating around (it's OMAP3-standard).


Just search for "Bootable SD Card BeagleBoard" or similar to find some guides (I can look one up for you later, if you want).


Craig has a Mac - and we're not aware of any Mac-Guides :/

 

[Letalis Sonus]

A Swap partition is absolutely not necessary, and even if you find a scenario where it would be useful, it would totally torture the chip, drastically reducing its lifetime. Besides, AFAIK those built-in NAND chips are very slow.


Formatting it as Swap is probably impossible anyway, because the NAND chip ain't a block device and therefore requires special filesystems like UBIFS, which is used on the Pandora. You would have to go with some file-based Swap method instead.

 

[WizardStan]

If we somehow manage to destroy or corrupt our bootloader?

It's the exact same as loading a bootloader to the BeagleBoard, for which there are a lot of instruction. It involves putting special files onto the SD card in the right order (the one file absolutely needs to be at the very start of the card, at byte 0), holding down the user button (which I believe is the Pandora button in this case, though anyone from OPT can correct me) while turning it on, and letting the boot loader on the SD card reflash the boot loader on the NAND.


The bootloader is probably Pandora specific, but I'm willing to bet that if your system does crash so hard that you need it, you can just ask for it.


Although this doesn't explain why Craigix can't create his own boot card. Maybe Macs aren't very good at creating them?

 

[Grench]

It's the exact same as loading a bootloader to the BeagleBoard, for which there are a lot of instruction. It involves putting special files onto the SD card in the right order (the one file absolutely needs to be at the very start of the card, at byte 0), holding down the user button (which I believe is the Pandora button in this case, though anyone from OPT can correct me) while turning it on, and letting the boot loader on the SD card reflash the boot loader on the NAND.


The bootloader is probably Pandora specific, but I'm willing to bet that if your system does crash so hard that you need it, you can just ask for it.


Although this doesn't explain why Craigix can't create his own boot card. Maybe Macs aren't very good at creating them?

The root answers to my questions have gotten answered above - and thank you all for the links & instructions on how to do it.


I'm sure the other thread goes into this at length - but I didn't see this particular angle/question on it.


Craig has a working Pandora or three lying about, right? It's a Linux computer, right? Why not create the bootloader SD boot card directly on a working Pandora for use in initializing additional Pandoras?


I can see it not working on a Mac - they're incompatible overly proprietary must pay homage to the master before you will be allowed to do anything kinds of systems.


But why can't a working Pandora create the SD card that can create the initial boot-bootloader on another Pandora?


In the grand scheme it doesn't matter - but I'm really curious.

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, the biggest problem is: Craig didn't have the time to do anything at all yet on the Pandora.


He's got one and ran a few emulators, but that's it.


Figuring out how to do it (or us telling him how to) would've eaten a lot of time - time we don't really have.


So the quickest way was to just ship him a card.


It's not hard to do it (and yes, you could also do it on the Pandora), but if you don't have the time to dive in, it won't help.


If my car breaks, I don't repair it myself either - even though nowadays you could probably find a lot of information about how to do it on the net.


The guys that love to repair their cars also probably laugh about me if it's just a small issue that needed to be fixed

 

[benji_stein]

Well, the biggest problem is: Craig didn't have the time to do anything at all yet on the Pandora.


He's got one and ran a few emulators, but that's it.


Figuring out how to do it (or us telling him how to) would've eaten a lot of time - time we don't really have.


So the quickest way was to just ship him a card.


It's not hard to do it (and yes, you could also do it on the Pandora), but if you don't have the time to dive in, it won't help.


If my car breaks, I don't repair it myself either - even though nowadays you could probably find a lot of information about how to do it on the net.


The guys that love to repair their cars also probably laugh about me if it's just a small issue that needed to be fixed

If it can be run on a Pandora, is it that hard to email a script that will make/create the bootable card? Download this zip, put a card into each slot, an run the script. Poof, you have two bootable SD cards. (Sure, you can probably only do one at a time since the image probably needs to be on the other card). No additional computers or knowledge necessary.


IMO, there's a pretty big difference between "paste these commands into a terminal, and it will do everything itself" and "follow these two dozen manual steps, that include draining the oil out of your radiator."

 

[sixtyfifthbit]

IMO, there's a pretty big difference between "paste these commands into a terminal, and it will do everything itself" and "follow these two dozen manual steps, that include draining the oil out of your radiator."

If you have oil in your radiator, you have bigger problems than you originally estimated...

 

[Grench]

If you have oil in your radiator, you have bigger problems than you originally estimated...

Maybe...


On most modern cars transmission fluid (subset of type oil) runs through the radiator as well - it is held separately from the coolant, but uses the same assembly.


Now, if you were draining oil from the coolant... That's likely a blown head gasket or a cracked block or a cracked head. Of those options, hope for the head gasket.

 

[benji_stein]

If you have oil in your radiator, you have bigger problems than you originally estimated...

Eek! /me blushes.


I mean the engine, of course.


But my point still stands.


Besides, if you're fixing a car, you should know more about the parts. In a click-and-go case, it's less necessary.

 

[ibisum]

I've always thought that the Pandora should be self-hosting - i.e. it can be, itself, used to create the *entire* firmware image from sources. This is really feasible, the Pandora has the power, and while it may take a few days to get there, it certainly *could* build OE from scratch.


Failing that, some way to easily clone the Pandora OS from one source to another would be very viable .. sort of like how in the good old days of DOS one could easily just create a new OS disk to boot from.

 

[jottt]

Don't forget, someone has to write that script first (and that low, it might involve pressing some keys in the right timing, enter data directly without any options for scripting besides Homer's famous little typing bird...try to script that) so it still might be faster to just mail him a new card...and most users wont be messing with their bootloader anyways so writing scripts for it would be quite pointless (when there are more pressing things to do).


Well...Now we talked about this, let's talk about the importance of backups *runs*

 

[centus]

Is it just me or is Craig much more into the iCP than the Pandora these days?


Just look at alec's scrubber....

 

[EvilDragon]

Is it just me or is Craig much more into the iCP than the Pandora these days?


Just look at alec's scrubber....

Well, he built 100 units last week, was waiting for the Flash-SD card (which should arrive today), discussed with our contractors about getting parts in lower batches for the same price in the future (as that would make life more easy)...


Apart from that, he can't do much more with the Pandora at the moment, as we all need to wait until the new nubs are there.


So, sure, when he got time, he works on the iCP as well.


It could also bring in some money that can be used to improve the Pandora in the future, be it by getting better cases or hiring developers for software updates.


It's not a bad thing he works on the iCP as well

 

[centus]

Oh of course it's not, I never said it was, just felt like daddy is more interested in the new kid...


It's just that when I see a lot of posts about Craig without him stepping in to tell us his side, it makes me feel like he has left these forums as well...

 

[EvilDragon]

Oh of course it's not, I never said it was, just felt like daddy is more interested in the new kid...


It's just that when I see a lot of posts about Craig without him stepping in to tell us his side, it makes me feel like he has left these forums as well...

Well, he's a busy busy man at the moment and as he needs to fix the iCP because of that lawsuit, of course he's more busy with that... he didn't even have time to use the Pandora at all yet


So I guess you're in bad luck and need to live with me posting mainly in the Pandora section (I don't know too much about the iCP myself )