Minimal Angstrom Image?

[lulzfish]

I'm using XFCE right now, but on the Pandora I'd rather use ion or something similar.

Wow, reminds me of the good old days when a Red Hat Linux install just came with basic X and needed to downloaded/install Gnome.

Reminds me of the crazy shit that happened with ion's author.
"I have recently given up on the failure known as Linux, and switched to Windows"

Apparently he was a Linux convert who managed to use it for several years and develop an entire window manager before realizing that he hated it. Kind of slow reflexes... (And ironic in that Windows has an unbelievably shitty window manager, and almost no way to replace it)

So ion isn't going to be updated anymore, except for bugfixes by community members. (If I'm reading this correctly)

 

[second exodous]

I'm using XFCE right now, but on the Pandora I'd rather use ion or something similar.

Wow, reminds me of the good old days when a Red Hat Linux install just came with basic X and needed to downloaded/install Gnome.

Reminds me of the crazy shit that happened with ion's author.
"I have recently given up on the failure known as Linux, and switched to Windows"

Apparently he was a Linux convert who managed to use it for several years and develop an entire window manager before realizing that he hated it. Kind of slow reflexes... (And ironic in that Windows has an unbelievably shitty window manager, and almost no way to replace it)

So ion isn't going to be updated anymore, except for bugfixes by community members. (If I'm reading this correctly)

Wow, that sucks. I would never use ion myself, I like pretty much every windows manager better, including straight X. I've seen people on open source projects just dump Linux because they don't agree with this or that. He could have just not agreed with what was going in the kernal or the forking of Xfree and Xorg or something like that. I can't see anyone using Linux for years and dumping it because they came to the realization that it was a 'failure'. I won't consider it a failure until no one uses it anymore, even if I switch to something else it won't be because I consider it a failure.

Maybe not enough people were using his way-to-minimalistic windows manager?

Edit: Hmm, I went to the 'News' area of the webpage and read why he switched. Sounds like he was having some difficulty, like Ubuntu wasn't installing correctly so things didn't 'work out of the box' as he put it. All you need to do is install restricted libraries, and that is done by just typing restricted in the package manager and installing what comes up, guess that was too hard.

I do feel for him saying that updates break the system sometimes, 8.04 did that for me, but 8.10, 9.04, and so far 9.10 hasn't, but that might be just me. Gentoo breaks for me but I -u world and that is not good, but I like my system to be bleeding edge when I use Gentoo.

Oh well, to each his own.

 

[Gary13579]

Ion was looking decent, a quick trip to Wikipedia and me finding out how fucking silly the author is changed that. I mean, really. He threatened Arch Linux legally for hosting patches for Ion, just because he didn't like the patches. Downright immature.

 

[second exodous]

Ion was looking decent, a quick trip to Wikipedia and me finding out how fucking silly the author is changed that. I mean, really. He threatened Arch Linux legally for hosting patches for Ion, just because he didn't like the patches. Downright immature.

He's really opinionated, seems like the type of guy that doesn't work well with others. He has opinions on what he calls 'megafreeze'. He has a point but he goes way to far in his opinion, he doesn't see the upside on on anything he has an opinion against. I'm pretty sure Microsoft will do something that he doesn't like and he'll buy a Mac. Apple will do something he doesn't like and he'll switch to BSD. BSD will do something and he won't have any where else to turn and make his own OS. He would be happy with his own OS, he should just do that.

Edit: Yeah, the more I read what he write the more I think he is just crazy.

The intro to his blog, or as he call it, 'Not a Blog':

A non-blog with an anti-pastel stylesheet. For usable environments – computer and otherwise. Those pathologically following fads are recommended to consult a doctor before use. Especially those requiring euphemisms, are instructed to steer away.

What he thinks of Linux:

In 1995, Linux was almost a bicycle; an alternative way of live to the Windows petrol beasts that had to be taken to the dealer for service.
By 2008, Linux has bloated into a gas-guzzler, and the cycle paths have been replaced with polluted motorways.

Alternatively: By 2008, Linux has bloated into a gas-guzzler, and local vendors and artisans have had to yield to “all under one roof” big box hypermarkets.

“[Fashion] is usually a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.” — Oscar Wilde
“The computer industry is the only industry that is more fashion-driven than women's fashion.” — Larry Ellison

If I can't choose the music, it's not my revolution.

Stop Gnomes and other pests! Purchase Windows today!

Microsoft didn't kill unix-like operating systems. Linux did.

Windows may blow, but Linux sucks.

Be an early adopter! Beat the herd! Choose Windows today!

His lack of understanding repositories and over reacting:

1. As is well known, they've ruined X fonts with Xft/fontconfig. Now, Xorg is even considering altogether removing core fonts from the standard releases. In consequence, one will be even more at the mercy of the distributions for providing them. And few would likely install them by default if provide at all – Ubuntu has already practised tearing them away from the Xorg releases. This would make it even more difficult for users to install third-party software requiring them, such as Ion, essentially requiring the fonts to be distributed along with the software. I will not use Xft/fontconfig in my software while it remains hostile towards those wanting unblurred fonts. I will sooner re-implement bitmapped fonts internally in my software.

All I can say is holy crap man, lighten up.

Edit: There is just to much to add so I'm going to stop, this post is way too long, I'm sorry for that.

 

[Wheels]

I clicked the Ion link on the first page, read the "manifesto," and decided this guy was loopy.
Then I read the second page of the thread, and was sure of it.
There's a lot of classic Crackpot spilling out into everything the guy writes. He reminds me a lot of some Communist who haunts one of my regular forums.

 

[Pleng]

(And ironic in that Windows has an unbelievably shitty window manager, and almost no way to replace it)

There's nothing wrong with Windows' window manager. And with Windows 7 it's even better. But certainly, you don't get any choice with Windows.


Anyway enough of Linux vs Windows. I find all this debate about WMs really interesting. Whenever I played about with Linux on my desktop, I always tried out a few WMs coz I, well, had nothing better to do at the time!

With Pandora I intend to spend most my time using the apps and playing games! To be honest I'd imagine I'll hardly ever be using the desktop environment anyway.

And I can't really remember what the point of this post was meant to be.

As you were...

 

[zhasha]

There's nothing wrong with Windows' window manager. And with Windows 7 it's even better. But certainly, you don't get any choice with Windows.

I humbly disagree. It lacks basic features I've grown dependent on (like workspaces and "always on top"). The always on top can be done inside applications but that doesn't help much when the app doesn't support it. I heard something about a MS extension that could accomplish it though. It also lacks snapping to edges (again, can be supported by apps internally).
Back to the workspaces. I've tried something like 5 different programs that supposedly adds this feature and they all sucked noodles; most had bugs that caused lost windows or frequent crashes.

That said, the Windows WM is good at what it does, but it barely does anything so...

 

[juniorm33]

ok call it as you want theme or whatever
i tried xfce only once but I did not like its designe. well my first time i used gnome (4 years ago) i got the same feeling (now I am gnome addict) but i never found anything pretty on xfce even though i think it is very nice to use (but ugly to see)

Simple answer to your question is yes you can get/build a minimal install, and you can install it onto the NAND.

Knock yourself out, have a ball and show us what you end up with.
I'll not be doing it, but I'll be very interested in what you end up with.

Edit : Wow some how I only managed to read the first page, hahaha.

 

[Pleng]

I humbly disagree. It lacks basic features I've grown dependent on (like workspaces and "always on top"). The always on top can be done inside applications but that doesn't help much when the app doesn't support it. I heard something about a MS extension that could accomplish it though. It also lacks snapping to edges (again, can be supported by apps internally).
Back to the workspaces. I've tried something like 5 different programs that supposedly adds this feature and they all sucked noodles; most had bugs that caused lost windows or frequent crashes.

That said, the Windows WM is good at what it does, but it barely does anything so...

Granted it doesn't have always on top, but I never really need that other than in applications that actually support it. Snap to edges is supported in Windows 7 (they advertise it as if it were something they invented - I have to say I've never see it anywhere else but I haven't played with Linux for a couple of years) but unfortunately it's not very good at handling multiple monitors. That is I can only snap to the far right of my desktop, which snaps to the right half of my big monitor, or I can snap to the far right, which is the left half of my small monitor. I cant snap to the left of the big monitor or the right of the small one. Which unfortunately reners the feature pretty much useless for me. Perhaps they'll fix it in a service pack...

 

[Sphinxter]

Ion was looking decent, a quick trip to Wikipedia and me finding out how fucking silly the author is changed that. I mean, really. He threatened Arch Linux legally for hosting patches for Ion, just because he didn't like the patches. Downright immature.

He's really opinionated, seems like the type of guy that doesn't work well with others. He has opinions on what he calls 'megafreeze'. He has a point but he goes way to far in his opinion, he doesn't see the upside on on anything he has an opinion against. I'm pretty sure Microsoft will do something that he doesn't like and he'll buy a Mac. Apple will do something he doesn't like and he'll switch to BSD. BSD will do something and he won't have any where else to turn and make his own OS. He would be happy with his own OS, he should just do that.

Edit: Yeah, the more I read what he write the more I think he is just crazy.

The intro to his blog, or as he call it, 'Not a Blog':

A non-blog with an anti-pastel stylesheet. For usable environments – computer and otherwise. Those pathologically following fads are recommended to consult a doctor before use. Especially those requiring euphemisms, are instructed to steer away.

What he thinks of Linux:

In 1995, Linux was almost a bicycle; an alternative way of live to the Windows petrol beasts that had to be taken to the dealer for service.
By 2008, Linux has bloated into a gas-guzzler, and the cycle paths have been replaced with polluted motorways.

Alternatively: By 2008, Linux has bloated into a gas-guzzler, and local vendors and artisans have had to yield to “all under one roof” big box hypermarkets.

“[Fashion] is usually a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.” — Oscar Wilde
“The computer industry is the only industry that is more fashion-driven than women's fashion.” — Larry Ellison

If I can't choose the music, it's not my revolution.

Stop Gnomes and other pests! Purchase Windows today!

Microsoft didn't kill unix-like operating systems. Linux did.

Windows may blow, but Linux sucks.

Be an early adopter! Beat the herd! Choose Windows today!

His lack of understanding repositories and over reacting:

1. As is well known, they've ruined X fonts with Xft/fontconfig. Now, Xorg is even considering altogether removing core fonts from the standard releases. In consequence, one will be even more at the mercy of the distributions for providing them. And few would likely install them by default if provide at all – Ubuntu has already practised tearing them away from the Xorg releases. This would make it even more difficult for users to install third-party software requiring them, such as Ion, essentially requiring the fonts to be distributed along with the software. I will not use Xft/fontconfig in my software while it remains hostile towards those wanting unblurred fonts. I will sooner re-implement bitmapped fonts internally in my software.

All I can say is holy crap man, lighten up.

Edit: There is just to much to add so I'm going to stop, this post is way too long, I'm sorry for that.

That someone can actually still code, (however poorly), with their head shoved up their ass that far is the amazing part. Core fonts, LOL.

 

[Olexxy]

Snap to edges is supported in Windows 7 (they advertise it as if it were something they invented - I have to say I've never see it anywhere else but I haven't played with Linux for a couple of years) but unfortunately it's not very good at handling multiple monitors.

For instance Compiz/grid plugin does that, and more than just half left/right placements

 

[Kramy]

Apparently he was a Linux convert who managed to use it for several years and develop an entire window manager before realizing that he hated it. Kind of slow reflexes... (And ironic in that Windows has an unbelievably shitty window manager, and almost no way to replace it)

Uhh...wait, what?

You can completely replace the entire windows shell. :blink: It's not recommended, because Explorer is highly functional and expandable, but you can if you want to. (Note: Explorer is also a mostly undocumented quagmire.)

I do feel for him saying that updates break the system sometimes, 8.04 did that for me, but 8.10, 9.04, and so far 9.10 hasn't, but that might be just me. Gentoo breaks for me but I -u world and that is not good, but I like my system to be bleeding edge when I use Gentoo.

Lucky you. Every single one of those had severe problems upgrading, for me. One even nuked a partition.

By 2008, Linux has bloated into a gas-guzzler, and the cycle paths have been replaced with polluted motorways.

Linus feels the same way. He said something like "bloated and downright scary". It's huge compared to in the past.

There's nothing wrong with Windows' window manager. And with Windows 7 it's even better. But certainly, you don't get any choice with Windows.

Depends how you define choice. You can completely redraw windows however you want if you replace the shell - but a slider or listbox will always be a slider or listbox. There's none of that GTK listbox != QT listbox != blah blah.

Of course, that's a non-issue. (Nobody seems to be complaining about a lack of unified listboxes :lol: )

I humbly disagree. It lacks basic features I've grown dependent on (like workspaces and "always on top"). The always on top can be done inside applications but that doesn't help much when the app doesn't support it. I heard something about a MS extension that could accomplish it though. It also lacks snapping to edges (again, can be supported by apps internally).
Back to the workspaces. I've tried something like 5 different programs that supposedly adds this feature and they all sucked noodles; most had bugs that caused lost windows or frequent crashes.

That said, the Windows WM is good at what it does, but it barely does anything so...

:blink: I've always had that option available. Must've been a tweak I got somewhere. I've been running modded XP for so long, that I can't remember what's default and what isn't.

The lack of snapping really annoys me. That's my favourite feature of Ubuntu. Snapping, and smart window placement.

Workspaces are okay, but I rarely use them. Snapping is far more important, to me.

Snap to edges is supported in Windows 7 (they advertise it as if it were something they invented - I have to say I've never see it anywhere else but I haven't played with Linux for a couple of years)

Trillian was the first program I know of to have snapping. I do not know when X (or is it part of Gnome/KDE?) got it. Steam got snapping well before Windows 7.

 

[God Ginrai]

Snap to edges is supported in Windows 7 (they advertise it as if it were something they invented - I have to say I've never see it anywhere else but I haven't played with Linux for a couple of years)

Trillian was the first program I know of to have snapping. I do not know when X (or is it part of Gnome/KDE?) got it. Steam got snapping well before Windows 7.

Miranda IM had snapping long before Trillian. I don't know about Gaim.

EDIT: AFAIK, Snapping in Linux is handled by the Window Managers, not X.

-God Ginrai

 

[Dutch_Cap]

[...]
So ion isn't going to be updated anymore, except for bugfixes by community members. (If I'm reading this correctly)

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten that ion wasn't updated anymore. I've seen lots of other tiling window managers floating around, though. Can anybody recommend one?

 

[Alec]

Apparently he was a Linux convert who managed to use it for several years and develop an entire window manager before realizing that he hated it. Kind of slow reflexes... (And ironic in that Windows has an unbelievably shitty window manager, and almost no way to replace it)

Uhh...wait, what?

You can completely replace the entire windows shell. :blink: It's not recommended, because Explorer is highly functional and expandable, but you can if you want to. (Note: Explorer is also a mostly undocumented quagmire.)

You can replace the shell (explorer), but you can not replace the window manager.

 

[lulzfish]

From the short descriptions I've read, awesome seems to be quite similar, they're both tiling managers that prefer keyboard-based input. Awesome is also Lua-scripted, so that's good.

 

[Tempel]

I've seen lots of other tiling window managers floating around, though. Can anybody recommend one?

I'm using xmonad within Gnome right now. I quite like it, though I haven't really tried any others. The only thing that bothers me about it is attempting to write configuration files in Haskell; I am only barely a programmer and the syntax discombobulates me.

 

[chole]

Windows has an unbelievably shitty window manager, and almost no way to replace it

You can completely replace the entire windows shell. :blink: It's not recommended, because Explorer is highly functional and expandable, but you can if you want to. (Note: Explorer is also a mostly undocumented quagmire.)

Replacing the shell doesn't take over the window management, though. I do know that window management can be modified somewhat, but we've not seen the broad range of variety that would produce something like ratpoison. It probably is comparatively hard to replace this aspect of the system.

Trillian was the first program I know of to have snapping. I do not know when X (or is it part of Gnome/KDE?) got it. Steam got snapping well before Windows 7.

Snap zones were in KDE in 1999. This is clarified in this later article on KDE 1.2. There are a bunch of references to the feature existing in 1.1 (not sure about 1.0), but this is the best description I can find of it:

"Magic borders are also sometimes referred to as magnetism. The goal here is to park a window in the corner or on the side of the desktop. As the edge of the window approaches within the screen Border Snap Zone setting, it snaps across the intervening distance, settling neatly in place. The Window Snap Zone value provides the same functionality between application windows."

Just for fun, I think I'm going to look into earlier window managers and see if any of them support the feature. For some reason, I feel that KDE didn't quite invent it (that is, they may have started with edge attraction, but edge resistance could have already been there).


Fake edit: FVWM 1.24 from 1994 had edge resistance. The feature was apparently added in v0.98. Mind you, it is probably only resistance pertaining to the edge of the screen, not the edges of other windows.

 

[grasshoppir]

[...]
So ion isn't going to be updated anymore, except for bugfixes by community members. (If I'm reading this correctly)

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten that ion wasn't updated anymore. I've seen lots of other tiling window managers floating around, though. Can anybody recommend one?

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Comparison_of_Tiling_Window_Managers