An experiment in forced nostalgia and questionable parenting


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Yes, I modded it a little for Mssiah

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And no worries, my daughters play with Barbie too ;) Just think learning how to handle a C64 is better than learning how to use an iPad

Edit: oh, and she was player 2. She doesn't like competitive games much but bubble bobble is more of a co-op so perfect for her
 
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That video shows a cynthcart. I have a midi enabled version of that on my kerberos cart http://www.frank-buss.de/kerberos/index.html

Well worth it if you like to use your C64 in a midi setup btw.

Mssiah is a different beast with multiple applications being a bassline synth, a mono synth, a drum computer, wave player and a sequencer.  It only has a midi-in port though.

The 4 knobs on my C64 are wired to the paddle connections of the joystick ports and in mssiah they control stuff like filter freq, filter Q, envelope, decay etc.

3 are fixed, one is assignable.

My red 8 bit monster has dual sid inside for added awesomeness btw. I always planned to make a 5th knob wiring the sid1 output to the sid2 input and vice versa, effectively creating a feedback loop and making the sound nice and raw :)
 
Wow, impressive Hardware-mods, I like such stuff. :) Fascinating that you still can buy new Hardware gadgets for such old Computers. ^^
 
<3 C64 and the still lively c64 scene :)

But back on topic, get your kid an old computer!

There´s no way to break the OS, it´s internet safe, they have lots fun and they learn about computer basics.
 
If he would have given his son musical instruments and occasional lessons in a comparable way, the kid would be able to play about anything later and become a true multi-instrumentalist.
 
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That could apply for every other thing in life.


Video/PC games aren't as accepted as instruments.
It's way harder to make money (and be popular in general, including the ladies) with the ability to play videogames,

because playing videogames doesn't really give you the power of creating stuff (yeah, I know.... sandboxing, but please...).
 
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Never did understand the 'they're too young for games argument' If kids enjoy them and the content is age appropriate, then what's the problem? Time limits have to be applied (no need to do this with a 2-3 year old due to short attention span), but that's like all good things i.e. let them have a few sweets rather than a bumper pack, an hour of TV but not a whole afternoon etc.
While I almost fully agree - time is a problem here. There are so many other things kids can and should do, most of them including either beeing outside and or training their (fine) motor skills / muscles or giving them inspiration (a game or movie limits that a lot), that gaming is on a very low priority on an "what I want my kid to do" list.
To me games are a far better form of childrens entertainment than TV / watching films and yet few parents have a problem with a 2-3 year old watching TV in moderation.
Generally speaking it is the same for me, I even like it more when my children are playing video games , and with that actually participating in whats "happening" instead of just staring at a screen. Unfortunatly me wifes sees things differently - which is something I don't fully understand with her spending a big portion of her childhood in front of an Amiga, maybe because she isn't into gaming anymore.
If the content is not age appropriate, then what's the problem?  Age appropriate rules sounds like what you're saying you've never understood.  I agree, but I've never understood that rule either.  I had less nightmares as a younger child than I do now as an adult, and I was able to change my mind faster and with less difficulty as a younger child than now.  Alcohol apparently screws with brain growth at young ages, but I've never heard of nudity and violence harming children.
The first problem is see is, when you try to create a set of rules for a large group of people, is that you have to generalize things in order to able to enforce these rules (otherwise you will be completly occupied by discussing things with people that are/feel restricted by those rules) As this rules have to orient themselfs on the most easily affected people of that group ,this means that a big (if not biggest) part of this group is hindered by that rules (even if it weren't really necessary).The second problem I see in that matter, is the (very, very old) discussion on how media we consume influences and/or effects our mind. Of course there are such nonsense theories that want to imply a direct and comfortable direct connection, like everyone who plays ego shooters will have no problem shooting people later on.

But our "Neandertal" brain evolves by experience, meaning everything we experience will be catalogued, classified and put into relation to our past experiences. With repeating experiences getting a a higher priority in this relational model. Take depicition of sexuality for example: Going back some 100 years (when people were still waering swim suits that covered the whole body) showing a still frame of what you can see on TV shows nowadays would have coused a public outrage.

Wether this is a good or a bad things, is not our concern here, but that there was a consesus in the public opinion what is appropriate or not, which has changed a lot over those years. And of course even back then there were shameless people that showed their calfs, but the majority of people formed this opinion, simply by experience > parents saying what parts of your body need to be covered or by books (or radio shows) enforcing that view or playing with that taboo, encounters with other people, etc.

This works the same way with any other experience a human brain makes. Of course there is no direct connection but beeing repeatedly exposed to certain pictures/sounds or more generally motives (like violence) will leave a mark (connections in our brain), and this mark deepens the more of the same experience you make.

Some might say now, that this is nice and such, but that its different in this case, as we (and this means usually kids too) can make the distinction between reality and fiction. Well, yes and no: While people usually are aware of the the differences on a concious level, subconciously it gets more complicated. Yet again the machanisms that the human brain has developed in the stone age has problems keeping up with technology. As several studies made pretty clear, people can get very attached to fictional characters - and I don't mean 14 or 50 year old girls throwing underwear on a stage, but people unwillingly creating relationpatterns to characters depicted on TV that are quite similar to those that exist for friends in real live.

Third problem: not all (wo)men are created equal. You provided anecdotical data, that you weren't really affected by watching some things (which I guess weren't age appropriate) as a kid. I can counter that with me watching ("thanks" to father not caring about age restriction) a lot of age inapproriate video material as a kid, resulting in me not wanting to take a swim in the sea for many years after watching Jaws (and even an uneasy feeling when swimming to a ladder of a swimming pool, feeling an urge to rush to the ladder), and beeing quite quick in switching the lights on in dark areas because I feared that a creation of some swiss guy called Giger would grab me out of the darkness (I think I was 7 when I first saw Aliens).

This does not mean that you are "harder" then me or some kind of special case, just that as different the skill sets are, everone posses, so are the abilities to cope with more extreme experiences. And this gets even worse if mental instabilities come into play.

With that in mind, circling back to the first problem I see: We have a part of a group which definately has no problems seeing such things (represented by you) and another one that has a harder time coping with "harder" material (represented by me) - which one should represent the case were we scale things on ? I vote for the latter group, not only because I'm in this group, but simply because of the question "What harm is done ?" > What harm is done if some kid sees something like Aliens with 12 instead 10, or plays Doom with 14 instead if 8 ? Is there any reason to belive that he will be harmed by not seeing it or looses something he can't make up for later on in his live?
 
enjoy the joy of of the older games
Excellent age to let him make one then...  here' s a suggested experiment for him then:

1. download kkrieger, a game in 96k. http://www.theproduct.de/

2. Install and have it run (windows, not sure about wine though... Yeah! Works under Wine!)

3. Call him over

4. Tell him about a wager. Let him guess how much the game takes up on the harddrive. Textures, sound AI, code, shading. Let him make an educated guess.

5. ????

6. Profit

If he likes it, show him the .produkkt http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=12511
kkrieger link now directs to a Russian deli website.
 
Thatgui.  I understand why scary content is not for every child, you've given a good example of how it can be a problem.  Perhaps not as much of a problem though as swimming can be dangerous, or playing sports with other children can be dangerous.  A negative experience can mess up our bodies our whole lives. (it's lucky our bones were so durable back then) The especially clumsy or fragile children may be better off reading, writing, or playing video games, instead of losing an eye playing in a way other children think is cool.  But it's fortunate for the rest of the children that dangerous play isn't against the law, just for the sake of the children who who are better off without it.  With a standard like "this isn't appropriate for children" there is only one option for children to take, and I think most of us pick up on how silly it seems while we're in the position to be restricted by it.  Without such a standard though, there are two options, and the more sensitive children don't have to watch scary and/or nude movies.

Although, my friend recounted to me his observations of his young nephew laughing at silly violent parody games, but without having the experience to understand the satyre, his nephew was only thinking "People dieing is funny!"  He didn't have the background to understand why we thought it was funny, that it's funny because this is not a good idea at all and it's happening anyways, it's funny because it's overly extreme and silly to be played out so recklessly.  He just knew it was comedy, so his understanding took a shortcut and supposed that bloody violence is just funny.  So, one benefit of keeping children from partaking in excessive outside the norm of reality media until they are a certain age could be to allow them enough time to absorb the norm so that they are aware when something isn't the norm, and so they can understand sarcasm.
 
Thatgui.  I understand why scary content is not for every child, you've given a good example of how it can be a problem.  Perhaps not as much of a problem though as swimming can be dangerous, or playing sports with other children can be dangerous.  A negative experience can mess up our bodies our whole lives. (it's lucky our bones were so durable back then) The especially clumsy or fragile children may be better off reading, writing, or playing video games, instead of losing an eye playing in a way other children think is cool.  But it's fortunate for the rest of the children that dangerous play isn't against the law, just for the sake of the children who who are better off without it.  With a standard like "this isn't appropriate for children" there is only one option for children to take, and I think most of us pick up on how silly it seems while we're in the position to be restricted by it.  Without such a standard though, there are two options, and the more sensitive children don't have to watch scary and/or nude movies.
Thats a good point, but I can't fully agree. If you look at physical activities, its easier for children to just stop what they are doing at "any" time they want by just releasing every tension in their muscles, which is something they already learned by heart, when they are able to perform such activities. But if you just consume something, it actually takes an effort to stop by pressing some buttons. It also a different state of mind they are usually in, as they are more "involved" while consuming media where other parameters a getting more importance (like curiousity or competiton) then beeing cautious. Something you can easily observe on playgrounds when kids do things they would not normally do but in a certain situation still do if other, outside influences come into play, like competition or beeing engaged into some kind of roleplay. I have experienced this many times with my kids, having the younger one always beeing on the heels of the older one, even if that means jumping from something that is high enough he simply is afraid of, if he is alone on the playground (sometimes with the appropriate, physical consequences).


Also the range of experiences is rather limited in real live, so kids learn pretty fast how gravity works and how different grounds react differently when they are landing on them/walking over them/etc. And as long kids aren't in a situation where they are distracted they can asses such a situation pretty good. Thats why I have no problem with my 10 year climbing up/along a five meter fence, because I know that he knows what he is doing. Of course he can fall but thats just out of bad luck and could have happenende to adults also. And thats also the reason why I'm holding off his 4 years younger brother (in that situation) from climbing after him, because I know a big part of his attention is directed towards reaching his brother.


In films or games the range is theoretically limitless: a cartoon series that starts of with cutsy, furry animals, can turn into a violent gore fest in the blink of an eye (think "Happy Tree Friends"), so its a lot harder to rely on past experiences - adults just have a lot more experience so they are more likely to know how something turns out, but even they can be surprised sometimes (again HTF).


Last but not least, there is always the thing with weighing things against each other: As a first approximation, you could say that the best way to protect a kid is, to lock him away in padded room with constant video survaillance. But letting the (not anymore) kid out when it turned 18/20/something would result in a beeing that would not be able to cope with the outside world. So kids need to interact with the world, even if thats endangeres them, it is simply a necessity. But consuming media isn't a real necessity. Well thats not exactly true, as a parent I had experienced situations where I had to give in to a certain extend, because it gets a necessity when social interaction with other kids comes into play. But then again I am weighing things against each other, my childs mental health versus my childs needs to be accepted in a social group he strives to be part of.


Of course in a perfect world, there were only perfect parents that were always aware of what their children can stomache or not, but that is sadly not the case (and I am no exception in that regard).


So thats why I am all in, when it comes to have age restrictions. Even if they just work as some sort of guideline, what to expect from something you haven't even heard of - actually they are already more of a guideline as the maximum penalty around here is 500€ (and this would need someone informing the authorities about it).

The only big problem I have is that how its actually executed is just a big load of poop - this starts with having the steps 0,6,12,16,18 years which has a big hole between 6 and 12 years - six years were a real lot of development is happening in a childs brain. And it ends with the people that rate the games not actually playing these games, but watching someone else playing them :blink:
 
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Happy Tree Friends freaked me out when I was younger too.  I distinctly remember feeling very confident in my infallable dismissiveness of any so called adult content.  But then Happy Tree Friends made my stomach turn anyways and I was surprised and ashamed.
 
@Thatgui: I spend too much time behind the screen. As such, it is dismissed by my kid as boring. (scissors are way more interesting now; learning to cut is a good skill). But I see a balance into not gravitating towards one single activity.

Of course, I leave lots of cool stuff at hands reach, like printer paper, magnetix, lights, talking pencils, portables. I now am reading about fireworks. (fire is fascinating, but much more dangerous than playing with, say, water; which also leaves a mess) As most of the gloves for children are flammable, I will need to learn how to teach safety.

Reminds me that I still need to buy earthingies...to not damage the ears with loud noises.
 
Happy Tree Friends freaked me out when I was younger too.  I distinctly remember feeling very confident in my infallable dismissiveness of any so called adult content.  But then Happy Tree Friends made my stomach turn anyways and I was surprised and ashamed.
Happy Tree Friends is far more disturbing than Mortal Kombat imho.
 
or giving them inspiration (a game or movie limits that a lot), that gaming is on a very low priority on an "what I want my kid to do" list.
I agree with the vast majority of the points raised in your posts above, but the above quote is pretty much at odds with my personal experience as a young gamer & parent of a young gamer.

The game that really makes me question this is Minecraft. My daughter along with millions of other children finds Minecraft truly inspirational. For example, whenever we walk anywhere together we tell each other made up stories, ever since she started playing Minecraft, about a year ago, every story she tells me has been based upon the 'mythology' which she has attached to her minecraft worlds. Can't wait to hear the next exciting installment of the misadventures of Steve, Katania & Mr Creeps.

It's sometimes hard as a parent to enforce time limits with Minecraft as what she's doing in her worlds is undoubtedly creative, inspirational, intellectually stimulating and tremendous fun. It's hard to say no when you hear 'Oh just another 10 minutes Dad, I've nearly finished my redstone powered railway, working farm, jungle temple, etc.
 
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