Add Firewire

[WizardStan]

What exactly are you trying to accomplish with winlockpwn? From a google search, it "bypasses windows authentication via firewire, as demoed at Ruxcon 2006, and released on Risky Business, 2008." If that is not it, then forgive me.
If that is it, why do you need firewire on the Pandora? It's not even an x86 machine, let alone a windows machine. I'm certain I'm missing a point here somewhere.

 

[pelrun]

It's for breaking *into* a windows box through the firewire port. Totally not an honourable activity, and I doubt anyone who is this determined to make a portable device for doing it is in it 'for educational purposes only' - as then you'd just be using your own setup which doesn't need to be surreptitious.

For shame, oler!

 

[renwils]

TI knows there products.
If anyone knows how to do it if possible it will be those guys, the creators of the Beagleboard, the Pandora or Gumstix which all use the OMAP 35xx.
I bet nobody on this thread has helped with the hardware design of the Pandora.
For the third time already, i was going to use it with Winlockpwn which relies on firewire's dma access feature.
I dont't think there are any real working usb to firewire converters.
If you have any proof that there is a working one, please show me.
Other ideas are welcome too.

TI has nothing to do with Pandora's firewire capabilities. It's just that there's nothing to solder or repurpose on the device that will give those capabilites to it.

 

[oler]

TI knows there products.
If anyone knows how to do it if possible it will be those guys, the creators of the Beagleboard, the Pandora or Gumstix which all use the OMAP 35xx.
I bet nobody on this thread has helped with the hardware design of the Pandora.
For the third time already, i was going to use it with Winlockpwn which relies on firewire's dma access feature.
I dont't think there are any real working usb to firewire converters.
If you have any proof that there is a working one, please show me.
Other ideas are welcome too.

TI has nothing to do with Pandora's firewire capabilities. It's just that there's nothing to solder or repurpose on the device that will give those capabilites to it.

TI makes the OMAP proccesor and they make firewire chips.
Why wouldn't it be worth trying to add one.
But hey, I can always ducttape an old ipod to the pandora.
O wait, i couldn't find one in the first place.

 

[oler]

What exactly are you trying to accomplish with winlockpwn? From a google search, it "bypasses windows authentication via firewire, as demoed at Ruxcon 2006, and released on Risky Business, 2008." If that is not it, then forgive me.
If that is it, why do you need firewire on the Pandora? It's not even an x86 machine, let alone a windows machine. I'm certain I'm missing a point here somewhere.

In order to spawn an admin console or bypass logon on a windows machine, you need to have a linux machine with firewire.
The pandora in this case is a very nice and mobile linux machine without firewire.
The idea is to add firewire

 

[oler]

It's for breaking *into* a windows box through the firewire port. Totally not an honourable activity, and I doubt anyone who is this determined to make a portable device for doing it is in it 'for educational purposes only' - as then you'd just be using your own setup which doesn't need to be surreptitious.

For shame, oler!

I am this determined to this because i want to learn how things work.
Ever since i was a kid, i broke things to see how they worked.
The more people told me not to mess with my things, the more i did.
Nowadays i have seen the inside of almost every device i own.
And they all still work, and when they break down i might even be able to fix them.
I only have one firewire device which is my old laptop.
Who has firewire anymore thesedays?
I'm not going to break into anyone's computer.
There is no point in doing that, i'm no thief nor a virusplanter.
I just want to use stuff for other purposes than they were intended for.

 

[oler]

This forum told you that what you wanted was impossible, so you're going off to another forum to try and convince someone else to tell you that it isn't?

If some guy from a forum tells u it's safe to jump from a bridge, would you go and jump off one?
No, you should go and ask a company that does bungeejumping where there next event is.

 

[torpor]

This looks like it might work if you can find it in stock somewhere:

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=513590

Then there is this:

http://www.pixela.co.jp/en/products/tv_capture/pix_uvcd_u1w/spec.html

And this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Firewire-IEEE-1394-6-Pin-F-to-USB-M-Adaptor-Convertor_W0QQitemZ360205865090QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item53ddf15082

And this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Firewire-IEEE-1394-6-Pin-F-to-USB-M-Adaptor-Convertor_W0QQitemZ270459078925QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item3ef89e090d

And so on:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Firewire-IEEE-1394-6-Pin-F-to-USB-F-Adaptor-Convertor_W0QQitemZ270424332782QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item3ef68bd9ee

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Firewire-IEEE-1394-6Pin-M-to-USB-Male-Adaptor-Convertor_W0QQitemZ270424110158QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item3ef688744e

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USB-A-Male-M-to-Firewire-IEEE-4Pin-Convertor-Adapter-UK_W0QQitemZ250535495682QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_USB_Cables?hash=item3a55144802

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Firewire-IEEE-1394-6-Pin-F-to-USB-F-Adaptor-Convertor_W0QQitemZ270416070517QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item3ef60dc775



Whether it will 'work' is unknown - you might be on your own for driver and hacking - but if you're trying to build your own custom penkit for hacking Windows machines over Firewire then such issues as driver support should be moot. You'd probably be competent enough to hack up your own driver and i/o support for such a case, no?

 

[oler]

This looks like it might work if you can find it in stock somewhere:

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=513590

Then there is this:

http://www.pixela.co.jp/en/products/tv_capture/pix_uvcd_u1w/spec.html

And this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Firewire-IEEE-1394-6-Pin-F-to-USB-M-Adaptor-Convertor_W0QQitemZ360205865090QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item53ddf15082

And this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Firewire-IEEE-1394-6-Pin-F-to-USB-M-Adaptor-Convertor_W0QQitemZ270459078925QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item3ef89e090d

And so on:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Firewire-IEEE-1394-6-Pin-F-to-USB-F-Adaptor-Convertor_W0QQitemZ270424332782QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item3ef68bd9ee

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Firewire-IEEE-1394-6Pin-M-to-USB-Male-Adaptor-Convertor_W0QQitemZ270424110158QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item3ef688744e

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USB-A-Male-M-to-Firewire-IEEE-4Pin-Convertor-Adapter-UK_W0QQitemZ250535495682QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_USB_Cables?hash=item3a55144802

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Firewire-IEEE-1394-6-Pin-F-to-USB-F-Adaptor-Convertor_W0QQitemZ270416070517QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item3ef60dc775



Whether it will 'work' is unknown - you might be on your own for driver and hacking - but if you're trying to build your own custom penkit for hacking Windows machines over Firewire then such issues as driver support should be moot. You'd probably be competent enough to hack up your own driver and i/o support for such a case, no?

The first one is just a firewire hub and an usb hub in one case with both a usb cabla and a firewire cable running out of them. Therefor if you want to use the firewire hub you need to plug in the firewire cable which we dont have a port fore. The second one however, the PIX-UVCD/U1W is a verry intersting device and probabbly is hackable if you have loads off time. All the other ones have been commented about.

 

[WizardStan]

If some guy from a forum tells u it's safe to jump from a bridge, would you go and jump off one?
No, you should go and ask a company that does bungeejumping where there next event is.

If some guy from a forum tells you it's not safe to jump off a bridge, gives you examples why, performs mathematical calculations to prove it, and then dumps a watermelon off the bridge to demonstrate basically what would happen, are you going to keep walking around asking people hoping for a different answer?

 

[CoMiKe]

I am this determined to this because i want to learn how things work.
Ever since i was a kid, i broke things to see how they worked.
The more people told me not to mess with my things, the more i did.
Nowadays i have seen the inside of almost every device i own.
And they all still work, and when they break down i might even be able to fix them.
I only have one firewire device which is my old laptop.
Who has firewire anymore thesedays?
I'm not going to break into anyone's computer.
There is no point in doing that, i'm no thief nor a virusplanter.
I just want to use stuff for other purposes than they were intended for.

???

 

[WizardStan]

I am this determined to this because i want to learn how things work.
Ever since i was a kid, i broke things to see how they worked.
The more people told me not to mess with my things, the more i did.
Nowadays i have seen the inside of almost every device i own.
And they all still work, and when they break down i might even be able to fix them.
I only have one firewire device which is my old laptop.
Who has firewire anymore thesedays?
I'm not going to break into anyone's computer.
There is no point in doing that, i'm no thief nor a virusplanter.
I just want to use stuff for other purposes than they were intended for.

Also, your logic is severely flawed. If you were only interested in this for learning purposes, any device would do: stick it on a desktop, a laptop, whatever, go "oh, cool, so that's how that does that" and be done with it. It would be much easier that way, and you could get on to learning the next big thing.
Yet it is the Pandora that you have in your sights, something intentionally designed to be portable. I've been accused of over analyzing in the past, but I don't think anyone would fault me for the obvious conclusion this leads to.

 

[oler]

I am this determined to this because i want to learn how things work.
Ever since i was a kid, i broke things to see how they worked.
The more people told me not to mess with my things, the more i did.
Nowadays i have seen the inside of almost every device i own.
And they all still work, and when they break down i might even be able to fix them.
I only have one firewire device which is my old laptop.
Who has firewire anymore thesedays?
I'm not going to break into anyone's computer.
There is no point in doing that, i'm no thief nor a virusplanter.
I just want to use stuff for other purposes than they were intended for.

Also, your logic is severely flawed. If you were only interested in this for learning purposes, any device would do: stick it on a desktop, a laptop, whatever, go "oh, cool, so that's how that does that" and be done with it. It would be much easier that way, and you could get on to learning the next big thing.
Yet it is the Pandora that you have in your sights, something intentionally designed to be portable. I've been accused of over analyzing in the past, but I don't think anyone would fault me for the obvious conclusion this leads to.

Ow yea plugging in a firewire cardbus or pci card may be an achievement for you but it isn't for me.

I chose not only the pandora, a beagleboard or gumstix would do just fine to since they all use the OMAP 3530. Any ARM proccesor would do.
But the pandora just is a kick a$$ gaming machine.

 

[oler]

I am this determined to this because i want to learn how things work.
Ever since i was a kid, i broke things to see how they worked.
The more people told me not to mess with my things, the more i did.
Nowadays i have seen the inside of almost every device i own.
And they all still work, and when they break down i might even be able to fix them.
I only have one firewire device which is my old laptop.
Who has firewire anymore thesedays?
I'm not going to break into anyone's computer.
There is no point in doing that, i'm no thief nor a virusplanter.
I just want to use stuff for other purposes than they were intended for.

???

Yes i am a geek.
Ur point?

 

[CoMiKe]

Yes i am a geek.
Ur point?

You haven't seen Heroes, have you? Cos you would know who is Sylar and what he does. :lol:

 

[oler]

Yes i am a geek.
Ur point?

You haven't seen Heroes, have you? Cos you would know who is Sylar and what he does. :lol:

nope i haven't
Hey im no serial killer
I want to understand things, i don't get everything you know.

 

[WizardStan]

Ow yea plugging in a firewire cardbus or pci card may be an achievement for you but it isn't for me.

I chose not only the pandora, a beagleboard or gumstix would do just fine to since they all use the OMAP 3530. Any ARM proccesor would do.
But the pandora just is a kick a$$ gaming machine.

You're not making any sense. You want to learn about Firewire DMA, specifically as it pertains to x86 systems, specifically specifically as it pertains to Windows, and you will do this by hacking firewire onto a device that is not Windows, not x86, and you have been told several times has no support for firewire. And you started off talking about just clipping on a firewire port way back on the first page; how is that any more of an achievement than plugging in a PCI card? It was obvious you were interested in the software side from the beginning, not the hardware, so don't come back and throw veiled insults at me for suggesting the simple hardware solution.
If building a firewire port is your goal, then do that: get a blank PCI card, and build yourself a firewire port onto that which can be plugged into a PC which is known to have the DMA access that would give you firewire. ARM processors do not have the kind of DMA that is required to make firewire work well.

 

[oler]

Ow yea plugging in a firewire cardbus or pci card may be an achievement for you but it isn't for me.

I chose not only the pandora, a beagleboard or gumstix would do just fine to since they all use the OMAP 3530. Any ARM proccesor would do.
But the pandora just is a kick a$$ gaming machine.

You're not making any sense. You want to learn about Firewire DMA, specifically as it pertains to x86 systems, specifically specifically as it pertains to Windows, and you will do this by hacking firewire onto a device that is not Windows, not x86, and you have been told several times has no support for firewire. And you started off talking about just clipping on a firewire port way back on the first page; how is that any more of an achievement than plugging in a PCI card? It was obvious you were interested in the software side from the beginning, not the hardware, so don't come back and throw veiled insults at me for suggesting the simple hardware solution.
If building a firewire port is your goal, then do that: get a blank PCI card, and build yourself a firewire port onto that which can be plugged into a PC which is known to have the DMA access that would give you firewire. ARM processors do not have the kind of DMA that is required to make firewire work well.

The whole point is to make that clip on board because ARM proccesors dont have that.
The host doesen't needs its memmory to be directly accesible. Only the slave has to.

 

[WizardStan]

The host doesen't needs its memmory to be directly accesible. Only the slave has to.

Yes it does, that's the point I was getting at. That's what allows firewire to have high speed. Without DMA, it has to be CPU processed and dumped into memory that way (or vice versa, taken out of memory by the CPU and dumped to the port), and you'd be hard pressed to find anything under 1ghz capable of that kind of throughput. The fact that you don't understand this suggests that you are far from the building something stage, and still in the understanding stage.

 

[torpor]

The DMA hack is post-Firewire bus processing, so if you can get the packets *onto* the Firewire bus to do the DMA hack, it doesn't matter what processor is used on the originating side. If there is a USB->Firewire convertor that will work, and if you've got the skills to chop up some code and do a custom packet format/exchanger with the hardware, then you can probably pull off the DMA hack ..

(Used to implement Firewire stacks for a living ..)