A dock (either P1 or P2)

[Binky]

Question is: Should the dock extend the Pandora's functionality by itself, or only when accompanied by other hardware.


e.g. video-out is no good without a screen.


I could imagine this kind of thing having an (optional?) second 800x480 screen which could stick up above the Pandora's built in one to provide more space, bringing it closer to being a netbook.

I would say ports and connectors only, putting actual technology into this would increase the cost significantly, not to mention how much more complex this would need to be. Right now you're just talking about adding a micro-controller or two... if that. (except for the retrode, that's a seperate thing, but it's basically just micro-controller also)

What about the built-in battery + charger?

 

[SNESFAN]

can be controlled with a pretty simple micro controller too. They make dual phone +battery chargers from china that come with 2 batteries for under $20 in some cases


Connector would need to be custom built but we're only talking about 3 leads. Think the hardest part would be the casing for that part that didn't look like shit.


I've been looking for a good project for my arduino. Might actually look into this


EDIT:


here's a draw up of what I had in mind

If you were to do a retrode type port, extend the case length wise and top load cartridges behind the pandora

 

[bismuthdrummer]

I do like this idea, Binky. For whatever that's worth.


I have never owned a dock for anything, but this... this is one I might buy.


The key for success with an accessory for a niche device like this would be to start small... keep the hub, battery, and maybe ethernet but hold off on the fancy stuff like extra storage and display options. The Pandora 1 already needs hub and ethernet functionality that it does not have built-in, which most people probably fill in with separate devices. With only these simple requirements you have a feasibly low-cost consolidated accessory that a majority of Pandorians may well be interested in.


I do like the thought of being able to come home, drop my half full (because I am on the experimental 3.2 kernel of Super Zaxxon ) Pandora in its charger, pick up a controller plugged into the hub, and retro game my heart away. Could also have a mouse and keyboard already plugged in, too. Very nice thought indeed.


EDIT: So the primary reason I suggest holding off on the storage/display stuff would be to keep the accessory cost too low for a Pandora consumer to deny, assuming that it would impact the cost significantly... but having the EXT port on the current Pandora adapted to A/V and S-video would be absolutely killer. Built into the dock (which makes sense), and no short or cable damage will require an exotic shipment to replace your TV-out.

 

[double7]

given that the Pandora is primarily a mobile device

That's the point. I'm not surprised that the current discusion followed what i had in my mind.

desktop of the pandora will be vnc'd, i could use screen and keyboard of the desktop pc.

No, you have to slot your Pandora into your dock, which takes care of both connections while reducing the number of wires on your desk.

And increasing the area blocked by your dock. Blocked with elements i already have on the desk due to the stationary pc. Like keyboard, mouse, grafic tablet, speakers. You noted that the Pandora is a mobile device primarily. It's place is in your pocket, not on your desktop. But yes, sometimes there is need for interconnection to your stationary equipment. Sometimes, not primarily.


Primarily i need the space blocked by the dock for other usage. Docking the Laptop to the replicator, placing reference books on the desk, workspace for disassembly of devices. Another secondary dock will reduce that usable space.

I always thought the pandora had the potential of being an desktop replacement, with a neat and quick connection to a monitor, larger storage and other regular accessories it could.. if you've never used a docking station or port replicator, it's hard to envision how easy it makes things. I use one at home and work for my laptop.... one of the best ideas ever

I know, i already use the port replicator of my laptop, too. But look to yourself what your mind developed. That station with hdd and a lot of connections, with a build in ras-pi system. Please don't be angry if i tell you that that's just like a little backbone server and media center in one box. That is what you developed to have need for. The difference we are talking about is only the way how we connect the pandora to that server. You want some kind of (proprietary) dock, i prefer standard network.


For WLAN, there is no need to connect a second cable, the power cable is enough and the pandora could be connected to the network anywhere in the house. The pandora could not replace my laptop, because it's lacking standard connectivity of the video output. I need vga, dvi or hdmi ports in the office wilderness without messing with adaptor cables. I can't carry that dock with me, that obsoletes the reason for the dock.

 

[dementio]

can be controlled with a pretty simple micro controller too. They make dual phone +battery chargers from china that come with 2 batteries for under $20 in some cases


Connector would need to be custom built but we're only talking about 3 leads. Think the hardest part would be the casing for that part that didn't look like shit.


I've been looking for a good project for my arduino. Might actually look into this


EDIT:


here's a draw up of what I had in mind


/pic removed/


If you were to do a retrode type port, extend the case length wise and top load cartridges behind the pandora

I'd definately buy one made like this

 

[SNESFAN]

I know, i already use the port replicator of my laptop, too. But look to yourself what your mind developed. That station with hdd and a lot of connections, with a build in ras-pi system. Please don't be angry if i tell you that that's just like a little backbone server and media center in one box. That is what you developed to have need for. The difference we are talking about is only the way how we connect the pandora to that server. You want some kind of (proprietary) dock, i prefer standard network.


For WLAN, there is no need to connect a second cable, the power cable is enough and the pandora could be connected to the network anywhere in the house. The pandora could not replace my laptop, because it's lacking standard connectivity of the video output. I need vga, dvi or hdmi ports in the office wilderness without messing with adaptor cables. I can't carry that dock with me, that obsoletes the reason for the dock.

not getting angry :huh:


microcontrollers are very cheap and more power efficient than microcomputers... arduino vs raspi (raspi is very cheap as well and would probably be a good solution as well but I'm aiming at very cheap) the difference between the two is like what's in a remote control or microwave vs what's in a network router or your smartphone.


anyway, not too much of a difference there really in function for what the target is for. As far as complexity however, it would be a lot simpler to build. Thinking about the cost today and it would fall very well below the cost of a small form factor computer. I'm thinking probably well under $50 to make.


the slim form factor dvd/cd drive is just the bay and connector, can buy replacement slim form factor dell drives and connectors on ebay for not much.. I was thinking of doing mine as a DIY project anyway, so take out anything you don't want to use... Same for the HDD bay and connector. The parts individually should be rather cheap to come by. If someone wants to make and sell.. more power to ya

 

[Binky]

@ Android's picture


Could you use a PSP charger as power supply?


Optical disk drive would be useful.


Maybe put some usb ports on the front?


Maybe include another battery compartment* depending on the power eaten by the two disk drives (I think would wantr this dock to be able to to function without a mains supply)


Also include some indicator LEDs (disk usage, battery charging...)


Wonder if the retrode team would help with the inclusion of outdated connectors?


*batteries for this dock should probably be sold separately, an additional compartment is no extra design effort, doesn't take up much space.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Nice !


Yeah, a USB 1+2 compatible hub can be cool.


3 ports are a minimum : 1 mouse, 1 keyboard + extra


Or 4 if there's no ethernet included.


A front audio jack cable to a pair of RCA at the back can be cool too for those who haven't TV-out cables.


I like the idea of having a sata drive in it ^^.

 

[double7]

I've been looking for a good project for my arduino.

Ah, i overlooked this one. If this is your primary target only i do understand. I don't know much about the arduino and can't tell what it's capable of. I'm surprised about it's memory size and i could imagine that your dock is just a simple port-replicator only.


This would make the dock included hardware useless without pandora.

microcontrollers are very cheap and more power efficient than microcomputers... arduino vs raspi (raspi is very cheap as well and would probably be a good solution as well but I'm aiming at very cheap)

Very cheap it is because you already own it. A quick price comparison showed me that the ras-pi is cheaper than the arduino, but may be there are cheaper offers around and i didn't check the after marktet.

the difference between the two is like what's in a remote control or microwave vs what's in a network router or your smartphone.

Why should i buy a remote control, when i could get a smartphone for the same price?


The server concept dock with ras-pi would make the pandora the remote control or the 'smartphone' as required. A ras-pi dock could show the remote desktop of the pandora or play videos, it could be port replicator or server as required. Cheaper, more powerful, not limited to pandora only use, i think it's a tripple win solution.

As far as complexity however, it would be a lot simpler to build. Thinking about the cost today and it would fall very well below the cost of a small form factor computer. I'm thinking probably well under $50 to make.

I don't think so. You'll need to use second hand hardware to hit that price and you need to avoid p&p.


But at last i think you could have a lot of fun building it and i would be happy if you show your final build to us.^^

 

[Binky]

What about an expresscard slot (or similar)?


Could this dock be built in two parts (stackable using USB*):

1. A Pandora-compatability layer with: docking connectors
   
2. A port replicator containing: charging circuits, battery holder, USB hub, HDMI out etc
   
3. An extension block with: HDD bay, (slim) Optical drive bay, expresscard slot, retrode ports, 2nd battery holder*
   
4. An Rπ case
   

It should be possible to operate as a Rπ case or a Pandora dock or both, with or without port replicator or disc bays and, of course, the Rπ could make use of the rechargeable batteries


*the extra battery holder could be used to reduce power draw on the stack connector

 

[SNESFAN]

@double7- you'll see what I'm talking about when I'm done

 

[Binky]

Rethinking:


Stackable setup using USB3 for power and comms

1. Base unit with transformer and battery compartment(s), provides large amounts of current to the USB system as required by Disk drives, charging etc, even in absence of mains connection. Operates as powered USB hub of sorts
   
2. Disks & things unit with bays for: expresscard, HDD, CD/DVD, Various memory cards, various outdated connectors
   
3. Rπ case with direct video/sound out & SD slot, but USB connections routed to other stack components
   
4. Pandora dock with video/sound out, USB connections routed via slave/host switch.
   

Would provide a nice Pandora charging station, to which you could neatly add a wide range of other stuff.


Would also work as an Rπ case with power supply &or battery


Could provide an all-in-one Rπ computer setup

 

[Zuk]

The intended use for a dock will change from person to person. To accomodate that, I would think keeping it simple would be the goal. A powered USB hub allows the flexibility to add any functionality you want to the dock. Why force a customer who wants a dock but not retrode functionality to pay for retrode hardware? The user that wants that can support the guy that makes retrodes by buying one and plugging it in USB. Want a keyboard/mouse/trackpad/gamepad/cdrom/anything else? Plug it in USB. Plus, it keeps with the "open" nature of the beast.


I'm not a business man or marketer, but I would think with OpenPandora's (the company) limited resources and sales that they aren't going to want to make anything overly complicated, expensive, or multiple editions with different features or addons. The number of docks sold would probably be less than the number of handhelds sold. That's why I kind of roll my eyes everytime I see a "can I get a Pandora in this color?" thread. ED's not going to tell the case company, "OK, this week send me 6 pink, 4 red, 10 blue..." Henry Ford did the same thing. Any color you want, as long as it's black.


Back on track... I'm going to assume that these are the primary goals for any dock user:

• Connect to external screen
  
• Use external input hardware
  
• Charging
  

I would then take the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) mentality. Allow the user to connect what they want, don't make them pay for what they might not use.


The only thing I would add extra to the list above is an Ethernet port. I like the idea of a hard drive, but again, USB can handle that too.