3DSi speculation

[Batou456]

Current speculation seems to be that an eventual 3DS refresh, which I'm dubbing 3DSi for convenience, will:


-Be thinner and somehow manage a larger battery in the process.


This is possible if/when Nanowire battery technology hits 2012+. Accomplishing this otherwise is going to tend to demand they find a way to exploit what empty space does exist in the current design.


-Integrate a 2nd Circle Pad, because an accessory has them.


The reason it was left out was that motion control was integrated which should lead to dedicated a analog look input being redundant. The main problem with that concept is that motion control+3D has some room to grow yet and sometimes people would prefer to not being spinning around while using a handheld for the relevant games.


-Integrate L2 and R2 buttons, because an accessory has them.


This would be novel trick to be honest. I've yet to see a handheld device that has a L2 & R2, and my relatively compact Saitek controller doesn't inspire confidence in any attempt at an over/under setup not being excessively thick. A side-by-side configuration could get around this, but on the other hand the games using the accessory apparently won't be using the face buttons while doing so.


-Larger screen


I can see this, and while an associated higher resolution didn't occur in the DS to DSi transfer it might happen here given smart phones with 3D are showing up at higher then 800x480 resolution while the 3DS is at 400x240. Obviously there would need to have at least a process update on the CPU/GPU to make maxing them out practical in order to do this in a meaningful way.


My thoughts on 3DSi upgrades:


-Better cameras


The associated technology will become increasingly cheaper thanks to smart phones and Nintendo has every reason to take advantage.


-Head tracking 3D


Associated with the camera improvements, one of the bigger issues that's been noted with the platform is the fixed 3D cone and motion control capabilities don't work well together. I tend to expect Nintendo to attempt to address this with as major a refresh as others speculate on occurring, and with Smart Phones/TV developers already likely paying most of the development costs of actually pulling this trick off.


-Improved screen


Like it or not the current screen is early 3D screen technology. I would be surprised if refinements aren't developed as it becomes more mainstream and used with newer products.


-Improved CPU/GPU


The PICA200 is a respectable GPU and indications are the current configuration is rather powerful, but Nintendo may find it necessary to go to newer hardware for support of head tracking 3D. It's also likely clocked at well under the 400MHz PICA200s are designed to go up to. Thankfully ARM indicates that stuff compiled for Classic ARM ala ARM7 & ARM9 from the DS is binary compatible with the newer Cortex series so given Nintendo's kernel is almost assuredly hardware independent upgrades otherwise aren't exactly closed to them if they chose to do so. This is a case where others are paying for much of the CPU development and licensing is less expensive then usual as long as they don't insist on making things needlessly quirky.


-Global AA filtering


As currently setup one of the biggest issues with the 3DS' graphics are jaggies. This pretty much demands global AA being enforced, given only 3DSi-enhanced titles would be running natively at a potentially higher resolution. I don't expect Nintendo to go crazy with this, but if they do find it necessary to update the processing elements related to the likely face tracking 3D update I don't particularly see why they wouldn't. The PICA200 is already capable of 2xAA according to the design firms website.


***


I tend to doubt we'll see anything along these lines in 2011. Until the Wii U comes out you can almost argue that the 3DS is Nintendo's most powerful console and it certainly compares favorably with the GameCube. I honestly just don't see where 3rd party relations exist for demand for more performance to come from in the short term, and there otherwise isn't much point until the next process node, and after the Wii U has negotiated hitting the market. That's all before accounting for the politics surrounding the early adopters.

 

[WizardStan]

Improving the 3D, improving the battery, improving the cameras, maybe some tweaks on the GPU, I can see all these things possibly happening. That's been their model for the DS and DSi: release something, milk it a little, make some cosmetic tweaks and release something new.


What I don't foresee is them doing anything that would allow developers to make games that would necessarily become incompatible with the first model: faster CPU, second circle pad, larger resolution screen, etc...


I don't think they'd skip the 3DS "lite" and go straight to 3DSi, there's too more milking to be done on this iteration.

 

[bagmouse7]

I think they need to invest more in games then hardware at this point...


If they had held back the release until they had a New Mario 3D, Mario Cart 3D, and Pokemon 3D I don't think they would be having any problems with moving the current hardware.

 

[friz898]

^^ Clicked Like

 

[sporkbox]

I don't see Nintendo doing much to the current design. They'll address the battery problem and probably work on a way to improve the viewing angle of the 3-D. Integration of the second Circle Pad will depend on the success of the peripheral. Many people out there (myself included) are most worried about battery life, and that is the crowd Nintendo is likely to go for with the redesign. The people who care about the battery life are technically inclined (to a degree) and typically invest a lot into the systems they buy, so they know there's money in marketing to us. We'll see a redesign by 2013.

 

[Batou456]

If they had held back the release until they had a New Mario 3D, Mario Cart 3D, and Pokemon 3D I don't think they would be having any problems with moving the current hardware.

Let's keep things in perspective here.  They've recently passed the 5 million units sold milestone on something that for most of the world has been out for slightly less then 6 months, 7 months for Japan, and has yet to hit the holiday season.  All while not having their ducks in a row with their 1st party line up specifically compiled for the 3DS.  Nintendo isn't so much having problems moving units as sales are slower then Nintendo would prefer.Given the BoM is supposed to come out to around a 100USD, they're probably still making some profit off each unit sold too.


Some of the speculation I've seen regarding why Nintendo did what they did with the 3DS launch, is it was setup to allow the 3rd party game vendors an opportunity to shine without direct competition from Nintendo 1st party titles as an effort to help improve relations with these vendors, and to be fair the 3rd party vendors have released so nice titles.

 

[friz898]

I'm starting to believe that Nintendo systems, at least examples such as the Wii and 3DS cannot stay alive without Nintendo's titles.


The Wii U will help somewhat as it should get simultaneous releases games currently only available on Xbox or PS3.


But unless Nintendo is viewing the Wii U as a short 2-3 year system until their next big thing... they're going to get left behind again by PS4 and Xbox 720. No these arent ready now, but again..if Wii U is planning to last 5-7 years or something, it will once again be "it's own thing" kept alive by 1st party titles, while the 3rd Party devs move on to the new generation software.


My prediction anyway. I'm not anti-Nintendo. I just havent fell in love with their work since the N64 days and even then, it was for all the party games like WCW vs. NWO, F-Zero, Goldeneye, and others. The PSX was where I went for all my RPG and Fighting game needs.


The last time you could fully peg me a Nintendo diehard was probably SNES era.


All that being said, I'm looking to purchase a Wii soon for Xenoblade Chronicles, and Dragon Quest X. My son will also be getting a Wii for Christmas this year. I also own a DS and a 3DS, and my son has a DS. So... they're still getting my paychecks.

 

[WizardStan]

They'll address the battery problem

The battery "problem" is easily solved by using a less powerful backlight in the LCD. I've mentioned this before: the current screen is extremely bright and causes me much discomfort when at full brightness. When I did a non-scientific comparison, brightness 3 seemed to be about the same as my DS lite at full power. When keeping it at level 3, I played nearly 5 hours and still had some to spare. Most of the time I have it on 2 now and I only charge it every few days.


In my opinion, Nintendo's "mistake" was not using a battery with too few amphours, it was using an LCD that rivaled the sun and making full brightness the default. Seriously, in direct sunlight I can still see my full-brightness 3DS screen enough to play; I have to turn off the 3D effect because I can't focus through the glare, but I can still play. My old DS lite I would be standing under a shady tree and still have difficulty seeing the screen if the sun is out.


Anyone complaining about battery life: turn the brightness down before you give you burn your face off.

 

[sporkbox]

The battery is lucky if it lasts longer than 7-8 hours. My DSi XL has a battery life on par with the Pandora; 10-14 hours at 1050 mAh. The 3DS should be using a 2000 mAh battery and not the 1300 it currently uses. I should be able to put everything on medium or so and get 10 hours, period. And I'm not alone in this. There are tons of people who won't touch the 3DS until the battery life is fixed.


friz: Your statement regarding Nintendo holding itself up is like saying Microsoft can't stay alive without Windows and Office. It's an obvious statement. If you _don't_ buy Nintendo for Nintendo's games, you're buying for the wrong reason.

 

[WizardStan]

My DS lite never got more than 6 hours. I consider the 3DS's life pretty good next to that. Who are these people that won't touch it because it "only" lasts 7-8 hours of use on a single charge? I will slap them with a trout.

 

[Batou456]

The battery is lucky if it lasts longer than 7-8 hours. My DSi XL has a battery life on par with the Pandora; 10-14 hours at 1050 mAh. The 3DS should be using a 2000 mAh battery and not the 1300 it currently uses. I should be able to put everything on medium or so and get 10 hours, period. And I'm not alone in this. There are tons of people who won't touch the 3DS until the battery life is fixed.

A 2000mAh battery would not give you the kind of life you're talking about.  Nyko's 2600mAh battery would probably fall short of meeting your demands, although it would be close.According to wikipedia the DSi XL gets 4-5 hours of battery time at full brightness, and 10-17 hours at min brightness.  The DSi gets 3-4 hours at full brightness and 9-14 hours at the lowest brightness setting.  The 3DS is rated a 3-5 hours by the same table, and 5-8 hours running DS games.  My personal experience with mine is that the idling circuitry is excellent, with only my Kobo Touch being better at sipping power.


One thing you need to realize is that the 3DS is basically the same size as a DS lite and on the smaller side compared to a DSi.  Ergo they've already displayed an amazing ability to take advantage of the provided volume envelope better then their refined DS design.  As a result increasing the battery without increasing displaced volume at this point is really asking too much until/if nanowire batteries become a commercially viable product.


Really your whining makes little sense though.  There is a well regarded 2600mAh battery and larger batteries available through third party vendors, and Nintendo made it relatively easy to do a swap out.  Yes, you void the warranty on the hardware if you choose to do that, but to be honest I don't know where you'd find the time where doing that much continuous gaming on a handheld would be an issue.

The Wii U will help somewhat as it should get simultaneous releases games currently only available on Xbox or PS3.

What games would those be?

https://www.youtube.com/embed/5QcwcXZTFGE?feature=oembed
Nintendo has followed a 5 year cycle for pretty much forever. If the next gen Playstation and XBox continue the selling at a loss trend with that year breakdown they would not break even on a month to month basis until Nintendo was ready to release new hardware. As I've mentioned more then once Microsoft and Sony's madness is going to bite them in the rear on that side of things.


In commercial terms the one left behind this generation was not Nintendo. Personally I find the idea consoles that were all obsolete, and cost inefficient in terms of real cost/power, at launch compared to computer technology should be judged on their processing power to be rather absurd.

 

[friz898]

Jebe,


You're right that Nintendo has a pretty solid pattern for the release of their console systems. Even the dominating PS2 was "replaced" 6 years later by Sony, regardless of the "10 Year plan" they somewhat-stuck too.


My point is exactly Sporkbox said. The only thing that keeps Nintendo alive is it's 1st party titles. My son is getting a Wii, and he's getting New Mario, Smash Bros Brawl, and Punchout to start.


I'm getting a Wii for Xenoblade chronicles and Dragon Quest X. Xenoblade is an example of rare 3rd party Nintendo exclusive that is a must-have to me. I'm a huge FF XII lover and I hear Xenoblade plays just like it, which is why I see that as becoming one of my first import games, and I've been watching and reading about imports since Nintendo. As for Dragon Quest, although not as popular in the states, like Final Fantasy series 7-13 on the Sony (and lately Xbox) machines. These are system sellers. The legend of FF7 and PSX game sales and the revolution of RPGs in the West etc has been beat to death. --- Nintendo is lucky that DQ series usually go to the "highest system seller" of it's generation...and that they won this time. Had it been the game cube era, we would have seen DQ X on Playstation (or possibly Xbox, but doubtful due to low install base of Xbox in JPN) just like DQ 7 and DQ 8.


Although I'm direct and argumentative, please keep in mind that I purely enjoy the conversation and debate. That disclaimer being given, do you truly deny that there isnt a whole list of Outstanding games that for platform release always say the same thing "Xbox 360, PS3" and often times "Xbox 360, PS3, PC" but not the Wii?


Now of course there is exceptions of lesser-demanding games. Like say Sonic 4 EP 1. There is a few other exceptions as well, say like your example.


But dont you think there is a reason that Demon's Souls/Dark Souls and Skyrim/Oblivion, and the hottest new NFS releases are NOT on the Wii? <<Edit: NFS is apparently hit or miss. Shift and Shift 2 were not on the Wii, Hot Pursuit and upcoming game "The Run" are>> You can also use brand-exclusives like Infamous/Infamous 2 and or Uncharted, Metal gear Solid 4 (PS3) --- or Alan Wake and Fable (360).


The most 'obvious' example would be Batman: Arkham City. Have you seen the vids for it? It comes out Oct 18th. You know what it's being released for? 360, PC, and PS3.........and later Wii U. That illustrates my point about the Wii U finally getting "those games too".


Too me, PS3 and 360 are almost identical systems. The only thing that majorly makes a difference is the console exclusives. Most games look identical on both systems. They are true competition to each other for their demographic and target audience. Wii is making their millions (and won this last generation) with their audience. Another obvious comparison based off real life experience is my years in the military, I've only ever met one single person who owned a Wii. Not in my life, just in the military. However, almost the -entire- (exaggeration but at least half in my Battalion) have either a PS3 or a 360. That's no coincidence.


I'm not looking to debate hardware specs and capabilites down to the tech-specs as willingly as I am the actual software out. But I'm not sure I agree that the Wii U will be "vastly more powerful".


As for the 3DS/PSP comparison. Although the 3DS is stronger than a PSP, the software hasnt really made night-and-day difference. Dont get me wrong, no blinders here. And it's unfair to compare 1st year 3DS quality to the the PSP being pushed to its very limits by Crisis Core, God of War, Peace Walker and a few others towards the end of it's career.


But! The Vita is around the corner. And just like the 3DS is "just short of a Wii" in power. The Vita is "just short of a PS3" in power. --- and the Vita will show it.


Dont worry, I'm pretty sure the 3DS will win this generation again. As currently the Nintendo Handhelds are like the Atlanta Braves when they won 14 division titles in a row. It doesnt matter what their 'lineup" is, you know they'll win the division. Especially when you're trying to battle the Pokemon franchise.


I enjoy the conversation man.

 

[sporkbox]

A 2000mAh battery would not give you the kind of life you're talking about. Nyko's 2600mAh battery would probably fall short of meeting your demands, although it would be close.According to wikipedia the DSi XL gets 4-5 hours of battery time at full brightness, and 10-17 hours at min brightness. The DSi gets 3-4 hours at full brightness and 9-14 hours at the lowest brightness setting. The 3DS is rated a 3-5 hours by the same table, and 5-8 hours running DS games. My personal experience with mine is that the idling circuitry is excellent, with only my Kobo Touch being better at sipping power.

One thing you need to realize is that the 3DS is basically the same size as a DS lite and on the smaller side compared to a DSi. Ergo they've already displayed an amazing ability to take advantage of the provided volume envelope better then their refined DS design. As a result increasing the battery without increasing displaced volume at this point is really asking too much until/if nanowire batteries become a commercially viable product.


Really your whining makes little sense though. There is a well regarded 2600mAh battery and larger batteries available through third party vendors, and Nintendo made it relatively easy to do a swap out. Yes, you void the warranty on the hardware if you choose to do that, but to be honest I don't know where you'd find the time where doing that much continuous gaming on a handheld would be an issue.

The bolded part is the killer. These other batteries would be a plus if a) they were good enough to get Nintendo's endorsement, and B) didn't void your warranty. And given that electronics in general aren't as reliable or as durable today as they were just a scant 10 years ago means that we should hold onto our warranties and extend them if possible.


I've held a 3DS and played around with it for about a half hour, I've seen one taken apart. It could stand to be a bit larger (or thicker) to accomodate a bigger battery. There's no reason to offer a measly 250mAh increase in capacity when the hardware is much more demanding of power even compared to the DSi series.


Personally I don't find it unreasonable to expect a better battery from a device before you buy it. Would you buy a Pandora if its average battery life was under 8 hours? I doubt many of us would. Battery life influences the ways that you use a device. Long battery lives allow you to push it with higher brightness if you so choose and still get "okay" battery life. At the same time, you can push the life to its limits and get phenomenal time with the machine. There's also usage habits. Longer battery life means you can get engrossed in a longer, slower game, and developers aren't afraid to make bigger games. Conversely, short battery lives influence developer decisions and force gamers to think of their AC adapter within a few hours of playing off a full charge.


The 3DS has some very impressive hardware, but until it's backed by a half-decent sized battery, I'm not getting it. They'll be redesigning it in the future anyway, and that'll be when they improve the battery.

 

[Batou456]

The bolded part is the killer. These other batteries would be a plus if a) they were good enough to get Nintendo's endorsement, and B) didn't void your warranty.

I will point out that Nyko is a US company that has been making 3rd party accessories for console systems since 1996, and that to actually void said warranty they have to be able to prove you did said battery swap.

And given that electronics in general aren't as reliable or as durable today as they were just a scant 10 years ago means that we should hold onto our warranties and extend them if possible.

Ten years ago would put things right during the middle of the run of garbage Chinese capacitors that led to enough backlash to have manufacturer's make a point of their using Japanese solid cap and things like Gigabyte's Ultradurable line, so I'm sorry but no.  Two decades ago, maybe, although that can be largely attributed to the 80486 representing an era when things weren't clocked aggressively to really need heatsinks in any sort of sense you'd understand it today at least.  Still with the emphasis on capacitor and HDD quality in recent years I'm going to have to seriously question a 1991 i486 being more durable then a decent modern system.


If I was going to try to make your point I'd focus more on Nintendo vending their assembly through Shinzhen, China and Foxconn.  Not trying to claim electronics in general are somehow more fragile.  That said Nintendo tends to be good about buying quality components and being conservative with throttling their components, so tend to be rather good on that front.

I've held a 3DS and played around with it for about a half hour, I've seen one taken apart. It could stand to be a bit larger (or thicker) to accomodate a bigger battery. There's no reason to offer a measly 250mAh increase in capacity when the hardware is much more demanding of power even compared to the DSi series.

Okay seriously, stop for five seconds.  Now breathe.  Why are you associating the equivalent of the DSi with the DSi XL, and why given the DSi XL has been a commercial success do you presume there won't be a 3DS XL equivalent?  Do you really expect Nintendo to neglect the elderly segment and otherwise the XL series is oriented towards after taking the trouble to setup the market in the first place?


The simple reality is that the DSi, DS lite, and 3DS all represent a market segment oriented towards ease of portability.  The DSi XL represents a market segment that is willing to trade some of their ease of portability for improved battery life and larger screens.  Despite this Nintendo managed to fit a higher capacity battery then a DSi XL into the 3DS, and pull some other rather amazing tricks.  They however also chose to give the 3DS a backlight that holds up well in sunlight, where most LCDs are simply unusable.  It should however be noted they also installed a relatively intelligent game based throttle system for the screen, which is the power saving mode.  Hence 8 hours with DS games and days of idle on the stock battery is not hard to achieve if you are reasonably prudent, as both I and WizardStan have attested to.


That said Nintendo has seen stronger sales of the smaller profile DS line, and the DSi XL has only been out around a year and a half.  So I don't see that update coming until at the very least after they've negotiated the market entry of the Wii U.  That doesn't really give you the right to rant as if it was designed by monkeys with wrenches, typewriters, and some rather unique design software.  The Nintendo engineers did a very good job getting a lot into the volume envelope they were constrained to, and if Nintendo officially made a battery extension instead of opening it up for easy 3rd party fixes they'd only be getting more flak for their trouble.


I'm sorry if you don't appreciate there are constraints associated with competing requirements, and the focus of engineering is to find good balance points.

 

[sporkbox]

Let me put things into perspective for you http://boards.openpa...dpost__p__40299


Proof of 3DS battery capacity: http://a4.sphotos.ak...467_45238_n.jpg


How well a gaming device performs while asleep or idle isn't very relevant. You buy a game system to play games on it, not idle. So while it's nice that it can last a week or more (every DS can in sleep mode), it doesn't change the fact that the 3DS is boasting much stronger hardware that's held back by a battery that won't let it last as long as its older counterparts. And this trend's been going on since the GameBoy Pocket.


I get more than 8 hours on DS games on a DSi XL (sans wifi, of course). Why, then, does the 3DS only get 8 hours when it goes into a special mode (that uses less power, no 3D, etc) in order to play them? On a higher capacity battery, no less! It's simply not well optimized hardware for actual gameplay. I want a 3DS, it has some good games coming to it soon (and I'm a big Nintendo fan). But it's ridiculous to buy a product that, in terms of play time, is inferior to something else that I bought at the same price point. Unacceptable back when it was $80 more.


I'm banking on them releasing a newer 3DS. It's inevitable. So I'll just wait. But I'm tired of people trying to discredit or silence those of us who care about battery life, as if it's not a big deal. It may not be a big deal to you, and that's fine. Some of us have higher standards.

 

[Exophase]

Would you buy a Pandora if its average battery life was under 8 hours? I doubt many of us would.

I don't know why you think this. People are going to have some threshold for acceptable battery life but I don't think it's going to be as high as 8 hours for the majority. Especially not for a niche product like Pandora that is already offering something without a lot of competition. Most people probably don't feel the routine necessity to use some device for that amount of time straight w/o access to charging.. And for them there's always the option of getting a second battery.

I get more than 8 hours on DS games on a DSi XL (sans wifi, of course). Why, then, does the 3DS only get 8 hours when it goes into a special mode (that uses less power, no 3D, etc) in order to play them? On a higher capacity battery, no less! It's simply not well optimized hardware for actual gameplay. I want a 3DS, it has some good games coming to it soon (and I'm a big Nintendo fan). But it's ridiculous to buy a product that, in terms of play time, is inferior to something else that I bought at the same price point. Unacceptable back when it was $80 more.

This is absurd, you can't expect a product released fairly shortly after its predecessor to have such dramatically increased perf/W that it would have much higher CPU and GPU capabilities and a fancy new 3D screen technology while using less power. Especially if it's really the screen that's the killer, their hands are really tied as to how many vendors are going to offer something like that. If none of them have fantastic power consumption characteristics then there's really nothing they can do about it. You can complain that they shouldn't have released a console with these specifications if the battery life doesn't meet your demands and it's certainly your prerogative not to buy it but I don't know why you think that this is an unreasonably compromise for absolutely everyone else. Especially when you can buy a third party pack to double the battery life.

 

[Batou456]

Sporkbox, as far as I've seen no one has tried to "shut you up" or even really disagreed the principle of improving the battery.


What has been pointed out is why it is designed the way it is, as you come across as taking personal issue with Nintendo for some conspiracy on their part to personally deny you battery life. Particularly given you've now as much as claimed such a evil conspiracy associated with everything since Nintendo's Gameboy Pocket, which had a monochrome screen that didn't have a backlight at all, and was rated at 10 hours. Nevermind this 10 hours doesn't beat the battery life of the GBA, GBA SP, or most of the current DS line up with their backlights at minimum.


Incidentally here's some battery life charts with 3DS games, which aren't as terrible as you've probably been led to believe. I don't understand why you think idling characteristics aren't important. I can't see myself or most people having such an open schedule as to being playing handheld games for 6 hours straight, but having it die at idle along the way is a real issue.


Also as has been rather unsubtly hinted Nintendo could do very little to make things more accommodating of 3rd party battery packs for those who have an issue and don't want to wait for the inevitable XL refresh. As has been unsubtly hinted at there's no void tape and the manual explicitly points out you can swap the battery.

 

[sporkbox]

If you don't disagree concerning the battery, then why do you consider my stance on it unreasonable? Because there are third party options? Those options have not been (as) rigorously tested and proven as Nintendo's own hardware. At least when I buy straight from Ninty I know that I'm getting a dependable product (most of the time, anyway...). On top of that, third party batteries void the warranty (without tape though) and prevent use of _other_ add-ons like the 2nd circle pad accessory.


Thanks for linking to the charts. It confirms to be worse than my initial thoughts, though. I thought you could get 8 hours of it if you really tried to, but the charts show you can't even break 7 on the stock battery. This is with the game idling, too, so real world values will be lower due to reading from the game card and processing graphical effects. Are there appropriate charts that have been made for the Nyko battery yet? Having those around would be handy since it'd prove whether it's worth the additional $20-30, turning the 3DS into a $200 machine. Sure, $20-30 may not be much, but you could buy a few eShop games or have most of a retail 3DS game with that money. Everything about the machine, in its current incarnation, screams "bad investment". From slower loading of DS games to poor battery life and accessories that are likely to become part of a future iteration, it's just not a great idea... I'm not looking for reasons to hate the system (or Nintendo). I've owned every handheld system they've ever sold and handheld gaming is my favorite kind. Issues like these are just incredibly obvious to me and I'm baffled when others criticize me for talking about them. Sure, you can do something about it, but it's such a suboptimal solution and the whole thing is a mess.


Re: idling, I've only had a DS die while idling once or twice. Since it's that good (and most other devices last a similarly long time), it's completely off the map for me because everything sleeps well as far as handhelds go.


Exophase: Is it okay to skimp on battery life because "nobody's gonna use it for that long anyway"? That's pretty poor reasoning. That's like not upgrading motherboards to support 32 GB or more RAM because "nobody's gonna use that much anyway". There may be plenty of people who _don't_ need or want that much, but someone out there is gonna want the longer battery life/higher RAM. They shouldn't have to pay more than everyone else to get a solid battery life. If we were talking something insane like 15-20 hours or more battery life, then sure. Sell'em a 5000 mAh battery or something. But the average consumer should _not_ be so apathetic about the battery life of their device. Lower battery life == more charging == higher electricity bill and more wear and tear on the battery. Li-ion batteries will recharge only x amount of times, then it starts to lose its ability to hold a charge. What then? Just buy another battery? It's costly and consumers shouldn't have to put up with that. I don't understand why people continue to accept poor battery life. Do the benefits of the device outweigh the amount of time you're gonna spend charging it and increasing your bill? Anyone who's economically minded should look for a long lasting battery in a power-conscious device.


Like we've all agreed on, however, the choice is ours. I look forward to Nintendo's next 3DS. Maybe they'll get it right like they have in the past.

 

[Exophase]

It's okay for Nintendo to release whatever they want. They openly label the battery life so there's no surprise here. I don't know how reasoning plays a role in judging whether or not it's "okay" for Nintendo to do this. It isn't a moral issue.


The battery life is a compromise. I'm sure if they could have gotten better life for no extra cost, size, or development time they would have done so; obviously there's some price to pay for that. If that's not something the fans at large are willing to accept then the fans will decide that, but I'm afraid you won't decide that for them. Or tell them that they have no right to not care about something you care about. Your views on this are highly self-centered.


People shouldn't pay more to get better battery life? Flipped around, you're saying people should pay more to get something only the minority is so passionate about. It's not exactly a huge investment, you'd think someone who is so concerned about this would consider it a worthwhile endeavor, or does your cheapness outweigh your concern? Or maybe it's your sense of entitlement that outweighs it?


Your point about spending more charging it is a joke too, when you're demanding higher capacity batteries.. which cost the same to charge.. which is of course absolute peanuts compared to the amount of electricity people use on their real computers, which itself pales in comparison to the amount used on heating and cooling (including microwaving and refrigeration). It's an amount so many orders of magnitude lower that you'd have a difficult time even measuring the difference on a bill, much less caring.

 

[sporkbox]

Whose rights have I infringed upon? None that I see. I don't care how anyone spends their money, it's not my business. If they want to waste it on something that doesn't last as long as it should, that's on them.


My view on battery life _is_ self centered. I don't know how it would be anything else. After all, how is it affecting you if my device's battery lasts a long time? Forgive me if I feel "entitled" to have a portable device that lasts long enough for me to play it away from outlets and actually _be_ portable.


Re: economics, you're using relativity to prove it doesn't matter? "The electricity used is so little you won't notice it, especially compared to x and y." Who cares if other things use more electricity? I'm talking about the 3DS and related devices. With today's tight economy, every penny counts. There's also an economy of time. It takes 3.5 hours for the 3DS to charge, and yet it lasts 6.5 at maximum. So at best, you're spending around 2 hours playing for every hour you spend charging. Compare that to the DS Lite or DSi XL, which both take around 3 hours to charge and can get up to 11-14 hours of life, which is a ratio of about 4 hours playing to every 1 hour charging. That's a huge difference, and you're only charging 250-300 mAh less. Which is more portable?


For a handheld to be good, it needs a good battery life, a reasonably quick charge, and good software. The DS Lite and XL nailed it, the DSi fumbled, and the Phat did okay. The 3DS has the charge time and the software is coming. And no, I shouldn't have to pay extra for battery life. What I'm after is not unreasonable. If I wanted 15-20 or more hours then sure, charge me. But asking for 8 hours on medium settings is reasonable. I shouldn't have to rely on an unreliable third party to "fix" a flawed piece of hardware either, especially when I (hypothetically) paid $170 for it. I feel worse for the people who paid full-price for it. At least they get 20 classic games out of the deal.


It's not a matter of entitlement, but rather keeping with standards that Ninty's been able to meet for years.