Windows 8 on ARM?

[RMJ250]

So Windows has finally realised it needs to be able to have Windows on ARM (and not just mobile OS) if it is to compete with the tablets/iPad after saying Windows wouldn't be ported to it. Don't suppose it will ever run on Pandora, I'm guessing it will only run on the newer faster ARM cores but interesting none the less....


Check it out here:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12124887

 

[mcobit]

So Windows has finally realised it needs to be able to have Windows on ARM (and not just mobile OS) if it is to compete with the tablets/iPad after saying Windows wouldn't be ported to it. Don't suppose it will ever run on Pandora, I'm guessing it will only run on the newer faster ARM cores but interesting none the less....


Check it out here:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12124887

Well, I think the limitations would be RAM. And Windows 8 for ARM won't run on the Pandora. But still there will be no x86 programs, that can run natively on this windows. Microsoft will maybe develope a version of Office, Internet explorer, etc. for ARM Windows, but all the games and stuff is not likely to be ported to arm.


The only good thing would be, that they maybe completely port DirectX to ARM and it could be used in a wine-like environment.

 

[elwing]

So Windows has finally realised it needs to be able to have Windows on ARM (and not just mobile OS) if it is to compete with the tablets/iPad after saying Windows wouldn't be ported to it. Don't suppose it will ever run on Pandora, I'm guessing it will only run on the newer faster ARM cores but interesting none the less....


Check it out here:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12124887

it's not a surprise, however you do not seems to understand the implications... it won't offer much more than the actual windows Ce as to offer by itself.


seen the power of the ARM embarqued in today phone you could easily use the same OS as on a desktop by only reducing some fancy features. thus it's quite normal that microsoft will at one time (not sure when and not sure this windows 8 story is relevent) evolve to that to save devlopement cost. But that won't change anything for all existing application, you will still need specific binaries compiled for your target... that means that the MS Office they talk about is a special version build for that ARM version... having exactly the same OS call instead of having to adapt call from let's say DirectX to DirectX mobile (like it's actually done for windows CE) will off course make porting application for both x86 windows and ARM windows much easier, but as long as the application provider does not do it you still will not be able to run your average WoW or specific windows application you're thinking off...

 

[RMJ250]

it's not a surprise, however you do not seems to understand the implications... it won't offer much more than the actual windows Ce as to offer by itself.


seen the power of the ARM embarqued in today phone you could easily use the same OS as on a desktop by only reducing some fancy features. thus it's quite normal that microsoft will at one time (not sure when and not sure this windows 8 story is relevent) evolve to that to save devlopement cost. But that won't change anything for all existing application, you will still need specific binaries compiled for your target... that means that the MS Office they talk about is a special version build for that ARM version... having exactly the same OS call instead of having to adapt call from let's say DirectX to DirectX mobile (like it's actually done for windows CE) will off course make porting application for both x86 windows and ARM windows much easier, but as long as the application provider does not do it you still will not be able to run your average WoW or specific windows application you're thinking off...

Sure I understand you would need an ARM version of the software but one of the reports suggested that they where working on getting Office etc to work on it aswell, interesting times given the almost monopoly of MS/Intel at one point don't you think? Other links:


http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20026354-64.html


http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/ces-microsoft-shows-off-windows-8-on-arm/8339

CNET: "Normal Windows software will run on Intel's SoC version. No need for developers to re-write their applications. "

— Ed Bott (@edbott)

January 5, 2011


http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/Features/2011/jan11/01-05SinofskySOC.mspx

 

[elwing]

Sure I understand you would need an ARM version of the software but one of the reports suggested that they where working on getting Office etc to work on it aswell, interesting times given the almost monopoly of MS/Intel at one point don't you think? Other links:


http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20026354-64.html


http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/ces-microsoft-shows-off-windows-8-on-arm/8339

CNET: "Normal Windows software will run on Intel's SoC version. No need for developers to re-write their applications. "

— Ed Bott (@edbott)

January 5, 2011

sure it's interesting, but it won't offer retrocompatibility to all what makes the actual couple windows/x86 unavoidable, and the fact that the futur applications will be avaiable for both platform rely on the application provider, and it's hard to predict if the buisness model will evolve in something that will encourage that...

 

[RMJ250]

sure it's interesting, but it won't offer retrocompatibility to all what makes the actual couple windows/x86 unavoidable, and the fact that the futur applications will be avaiable for both platform rely on the application provider, and it's hard to predict if the buisness model will evolve in something that will encourage that...

Indeed, some of the articles are suggesting it could work but unless they get something out soon it will be too little too late, with so many iPads already out there and what looks like alot of Honeycomb based Android tablets at CES now...

 

[elwing]

Indeed, some of the articles are suggesting it could work but unless they get something out soon it will be too little too late, with so many iPads already out there and what looks like alot of Honeycomb based Android tablets at CES now...

Application compatible for both windows and windows CE is already possible (I mean compatible source code) it's not trivial and not effortless, with this windows 8 it will become trivial. But seen the number of application avaiable for both windows CE and windows XP, it seems it was not the priority of the application provider... yet at least... let's hope for the better through

 

[darfgarf]

might be worth noting that even if something is compiled for arm, lets say a cortex-something, or a tegra, that doesn't mean it'll run on other ARM processors, not even something close like a scorpion core, as they've got their differences etc...and no on ecan jsut say 'it runs on arm' as there's a lot of arm architectures, all completely different to each other


if someone gets a hold of the sourcecode it could be ported though

 

[elwing]

might be worth noting that even if something is compiled for arm, lets say a cortex-something, or a tegra, that doesn't mean it'll run on other ARM processors, not even something close like a scorpion core, as they've got their differences etc...and no on ecan jsut say 'it runs on arm' as there's a lot of arm architectures, all completely different to each other

you are absolutly right for windows CE, it lacks good high level library and you directly access some specific hardware like the DSP... for a futur windows 8 through, I would hope that you'll only need application recompilation when targeting a different core instruction set and not just when the additional peripheric are different (DSP, graphic processor...) meaning that I hope a single binary would work on, let's say, all cortex A8 SoC. and all the specific dsp/graphic accelerator thing will be wrapped through call to some directX or whatever replace it and never accessed directly from applications, exactly like what happens on your actual windows XP machine... now of course if you have a binary compiled using the instruction set for a cortex A8 it won't be compatible with the random old ARM7 or ARM9...


edit: just random through without any real base and that might contains errors, but I don't see why they would not support additional peripheric exactly like how it's done on actual desktop OS... through directX and device drivers underneat...

 

[darfgarf]

well it is microsoft, fiver says you'll be able to find the legacy code from dos in there still, just need to wipe and start from scratch, its hell from a users point of view, but the end product would be so much better

 

[darkborn]

Don't be fooled! I have to copy & paste one more over:


There is NO WAY to get Windows to ARM… it is fake. It is Windows CE prepacked to looks like, with some bells and whistles. Similarly, there is NO WAY for ATOM to achieve low power consuming as ARM has… Don’t waste your time.


E.G.: Linux x86 binaries that are not precompiled for ARM, can’t be run at ARM. And Winblows binaries got dependencies of gigabytes of dlls and sort of… NO WAY, just mimic.


MS could make biiig eprom, and Intel could solder specific Atom onboard, but it is very modified (and expensive!), not compatible hardware.


Read between lines:

In his speech, Mr Ballmer said the "next version" of Windows, likely to be Windows 8, would support what he called "systems on a chip" (SOC).

During its demonstration, Microsoft showed Windows running on Arm-designed chips made by Qualcomm, Texas Instruments and Nvidia.

"Somehow" they forgot Intel - big one logo in the background? :lol:


Yeah, solder somehow TI, Nvidia & Intel (Atom) components with ARM by Qualcomm, + big rom with mini-Windoze live version and you'll get "SOC" hybrid which *could* run some hybrid OS between Windows CE/X86.


BUT: Such a hardware will cost over 1000$ at a start, even with free Windows on top of it (and Windows were never free), so... it is just what it is looks like:


"DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS" SHOW.


and btw don't mess it with Windows 7 mobile, which is just (another) half-product with main purpose to get some air before MS finally make something real.

 

[darkborn]

well it is microsoft, fiver says you'll be able to find the legacy code from dos in there still, just need to wipe and start from scratch, its hell from a users point of view, but the end product would be so much better

Unfortunately for MS, 2000/Millenium/XP and so on got heritage from NT: XP does not have have almost a byte coded from DOS era. I agree that you have to wipe and start from scratch, but hey - it is Microsoft, they stole DOS, they stole Windows, they do not know how to write KISS (Keep it simple, Stupid!) code. Beside, programmers @ Redmond are payed per KB lol... No waay :lol: