Will There Ever Be A X86 Pandora Style Computer?

[Blue Ion]

I might be wrong but I think there being an ARM version of windows7 will mean at least a decent amount of dev studios will compile both an x86 and ARM version of their software. It's a start to the ARM future at least.

I'm sorry, but says who.
I mean, I've been trying to find some evidence about windows 7 coming to arm, and so far all I have found is the contrary, Microsoft refusing to port it, or some people saying why Microsoft SHOULD port Windows 7 with some predictions for the future that accounts Intel and Microsoft (or at least Intel) doing nothing to avoid the future ruling of arm in the netbook segment.

Besides, why dedicating such an monolithic effort to port something that might actually be just as rejected as the linux counterpart? You already have windows mobile for arm devices with its rather big library of applications and I bet it will be easier to build on top (like adding a subset of directx) that will benefit all winmo devices than porting, specially when you consider doing so with something this big is way far from trivial, just ask apple when they did the same thing with their PPC to x86 move (and their previous motorola to ppc one as well).

Also, even if microsoft does port the os, my point will still stand, a "decent amount of dev studios" will really mean "decent amount of dev studios" with enough funding to burn to make a port of programs for an initial insignificant install base and that will mean office suits, professional programs and the like. Definitely not game dev studios which is my interest (and the pandora's interest).

I'm sorry being so negative about this, but I don't really see ARMs taking over the world specially when they will always stay way behind the x86 in terms of computing power as Exophase said. Anything Arm announces, it will take a year minimum to have an actual product by TI, Samsung, whoever, that system integrators will actually be able to buy, and by the time that happens, the competition will have moved forward.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with my pandora (when the damned thing ships) and having proper gaming controls will (hopefully) be far more comfortable than a small keyboard with just two key presses at the same time but I will miss most of my pc games on it.

 

[craigix]

As for X86 Pandora - check out the OMAP4 specs, I can't help feeling that is going to blow away anything Intel might have planned.

Sorry, but I disagree with this. A "1+" GHz Cortex-A9 won't beat a 2GHz Atom which is out today, never mind what will be out by the time Cortex-A9's are actually shipped in something. It may be a more advanced design but it's just not clocked nearly high enough. Dual core atoms exist as well, by the way.

As you well know it's not all about clock speed.

What I do mean is it will blow away anything Intel might plan in terms of power use, size, features, price.

(Although I'd be interested to see how a Atom might stand up against the OMAP4 speed wise especially with power use included in the chart).

 

[craigix]

I might be wrong but I think there being an ARM version of windows7 will mean at least a decent amount of dev studios will compile both an x86 and ARM version of their software. It's a start to the ARM future at least.

I'm sorry, but says who.
I mean, I've been trying to find some evidence about windows 7 coming to arm, and so far all I have found is the contrary, Microsoft refusing to port it, or some people saying why Microsoft SHOULD port Windows 7 with some predictions for the future that accounts Intel and Microsoft (or at least Intel) doing nothing to avoid the future ruling of arm in the netbook segment.

Besides, why dedicating such an monolithic effort to port something that might actually be just as rejected as the linux counterpart? You already have windows mobile for arm devices with its rather big library of applications and I bet it will be easier to build on top (like adding a subset of directx) that will benefit all winmo devices than porting, specially when you consider doing so with something this big is way far from trivial, just ask apple when they did the same thing with their PPC to x86 move (and their previous motorola to ppc one as well).

Also, even if microsoft does port the os, my point will still stand, a "decent amount of dev studios" will really mean "decent amount of dev studios" with enough funding to burn to make a port of programs for an initial insignificant install base and that will mean office suits, professional programs and the like. Definitely not game dev studios which is my interest (and the pandora's interest).

I'm sorry being so negative about this, but I don't really see ARMs taking over the world specially when they will always stay way behind the x86 in terms of computing power as Exophase said. Anything Arm announces, it will take a year minimum to have an actual product by TI, Samsung, whoever, that system integrators will actually be able to buy, and by the time that happens, the competition will have moved forward.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with my pandora (when the damned thing ships) and having proper gaming controls will (hopefully) be far more comfortable than a small keyboard with just two key presses at the same time but I will miss most of my pc games on it.

No one said anything about ARM taking over the world (although they do already lead the market via numbers), but MS are doing a windows7 for ARM (I've been told this by people who should know) if they will release it is going to depend on how many UMPCs use the OMAP3/4 I guess. Look at how fast MS were to react to the threat of the EEE and Linux.

Besides, everything is slowly going all internet anyway, this argument gets slightly more irrelevant every year. We can emulate a lot more with every generation too. There is less and less you can't run.

 

[Exophase]

As you well know it's not all about clock speed.

The designs aren't different enough for the Cortex-A9 to win at half the clock speed.

What I do mean is it will blow away anything Intel might plan in terms of power use, size, features, price.

You're comparing an SoC to a CPU. Until there's a standalone Cortex-A9 (probably won't happen) or an Atom in an otherwise identical SoC (also probably won't happen) then you can't make this comparison on most counts. Going by numbers from the respective CPU manufacturers power use will be lower, and I'm sure size will be too, especially if the Cortex-A9 has significantly less L2 cache than the Atom. But features and price? I don't know about that.

(Although I'd be interested to see how a Atom might stand up against the OMAP4 speed wise especially with power use included in the chart).

CPU vs CPU only, right? That Atom will win in performance. Power consumption was never really the point since ARM already wins, at consumption/MHz too.

 

[craigix]

Then, as I said, I think the OMAP4 blows away anything Intel has planned in this market.

What is the battery life of an Atom at 2Ghz? We are looking at 10+ hours on an OMAP4 dual core ~1Ghz (and I don't doubt they will clock higher).

 

[Exophase]

10+ hours on what? Are you saying the same power consumption as OMAP3530 or what? Because I'm pretty skeptical that doubling the clock speed, doubling the number of cores and doubling the power of the 3D chip results in the same current draw...

 

[Fishbong]

We're going to be competing hardware-wise with Apple. Doesn't that not suck?

Well sure, but wasn't the idea originally to be better than the competition, not "competing hardware-wise" while being at least a couple of months later? I don't actually mean to criticize, but the original plan sounded a lot more glorious.

plus you might want to consider the fact MS is doing an ARM version of windows7.

Isn't this just a rumor?

 

[dingens]

It makes me kind of sad, but I think that Pine Trail will change things. The GPU will now be on the same die as the CPU and they tweaked idle power usage. Plus it is available now and the big manufacturers will release devices with it end of the year.

I once said that Pandora has to be in mass production until summer(I was a preorderer of the first hour, this is just another account I made on these boards). Summer is nearing its end and nothing is on the shelves, yet. After I cancelled my order I bought an aspire one linux netbook just to have something to play with while waiting for second batch Pandora. It was much more capable than I thought it would be and much more portable too. It sucked me in that x86 black hole again and I will soon get a CULV device which will replace both my netbook and my notebook.

Pandora is still interesting for the gaming and emulation crowd, but I think that many of those UMPC/MID guys like me are gone now. A sad story
I'm an ARM fan but looking at datasheets isn't enough for me. I liked my N800, N900 is a phone now. Touchbook was a great idea, but miserable quality. Pandora was supposed to be a revolution, but it's still nowhere near final.

I whish you all luck and hope that Pandora story gets a happy end.