Will There Ever Be A X86 Pandora Style Computer?

[DRED]

The pandora is not based off x86 processors so this will have compatibility problems with current software. Do you think there will ever be a powerful x86 based mini-computer like the pandora? How far away do you see something like this being possible?
Why can't this currently be developed?

 

[Exophase]

Short answer: High end ARM CPUs achieve much better power utilization than x86's targeting mobiles. This goes for both the CPUs and the require supporting chips necessary - for that matter, I don't think there's an Atom based complete system chip, much less one as full featured as the OMAP3530 being used in Pandora.

Despite Atom selling like hotcakes on netbooks ARM continues to dominate at all ends of the handheld spectrum. And with the next major ARM revision being an architectural step ahead of Atom (which is a few steps behind current desktop x86's) I don't really see this changing any time soon.

 

[b1ueskycomp1ex]

Because as far as I know, the pandora uses a system on chip design, meaning everything is all in one place. X86 PCs don't have this sort of thing yet, and probably won't, but they are shrinking exponentially with things such as the Mini-ATX form factor and the atom CPU boards coming out. Netbooks are pretty small, and they would do what you're looking for. Running a full-fledged windows OS on a handheld the size of the pandora probably wouldn't have too many upsides, anyway.

 

[lulzfish]

Yes, there will be.
And by the time x86 gets down to Pandora size, ARM will already be another few notches up the performance curve.

The trick here is to make more software that runs on both platforms. We should not wait for x86 to meet our hardware needs when there is already a better alternative.

 

[Blue Ion]

The UMID M1 is, as far as I know, the closest you'll ever get to the pandora size. I haven't actually compared the two, but it is insanely small for an x86 netbook.

The biggest disadvantage compared to the pandora is its limited battery life, lasting for around 3 hours or so with medium load. With other annoyances, like miniature keyboard, miniusb port, not standard audio jack, and the fact an Atom at 1,1 Ghz will feel the strain of modern applications.
But considering it is using the GMA500 (which is a spiced up SGX), you will get almost the same 3d experience as the pandora.

An other downside is the fact that the SGX are practically not supported on linux (other than their specifically designated distributions) and this might be a bigger downside to many of you.

Oh, and I forgot to add that it costs almost 3 times more as the pandora.

 

[BackAssward]

The UMID M1 is, as far as I know, the closest you'll ever get to the pandora size. I haven't actually compared the two, but it is insanely small for an x86 netbook.

The biggest disadvantage compared to the pandora is its limited battery life, lasting for around 3 hours or so with medium load. With other annoyances, like miniature keyboard, miniusb port, not standard audio jack, and the fact an Atom at 1,1 Ghz will feel the strain of modern applications.
But considering it is using the GMA500 (which is a spiced up SGX), you will get almost the same 3d experience as the pandora.

An other downside is the fact that the SGX are practically not supported on linux (other than their specifically designated distributions) and this might be a bigger downside to many of you.

Oh, and I forgot to add that it costs almost 3 times more as the pandora.

Well, there's the OQO too, but it costs 5X the Pandora cost. At least it has a 5" 800x480 OLED display though (I remember many people saying such a display doesn't exist). I can only imagine what the display itself costs though.

 

[DRED]

The UMID M1 is, as far as I know, the closest you'll ever get to the pandora size. I haven't actually compared the two, but it is insanely small for an x86 netbook.

The biggest disadvantage compared to the pandora is its limited battery life, lasting for around 3 hours or so with medium load. With other annoyances, like miniature keyboard, miniusb port, not standard audio jack, and the fact an Atom at 1,1 Ghz will feel the strain of modern applications.
But considering it is using the GMA500 (which is a spiced up SGX), you will get almost the same 3d experience as the pandora.

An other downside is the fact that the SGX are practically not supported on linux (other than their specifically designated distributions) and this might be a bigger downside to many of you.

Oh, and I forgot to add that it costs almost 3 times more as the pandora.

Well, there's the OQO too, but it costs 5X the Pandora cost. At least it has a 5" 800x480 OLED display though (I remember many people saying such a display doesn't exist). I can only imagine what the display itself costs though.

Holy crap, that this is pretty amazing. It really is a handheld pandora without gaming controls. If it had built in gaming controls it would be a x86 pandora with a OLED display. It is almost the identical size as a pandora also.


size: 5.6"(W) x 3.3"(H) x 1.0"(D)

screen technology: WVGA active matrix OLED (LCD also available)

This thing is bad A$$, except battery life isn't too great and it lacks joystick controls and it costs 1200-1700 depending on the options.
So there is x86 pandora style computers. The UMID M1 is also pretty amazing as its pretty powerful and lightweight.

 

[lulzfish]

That's why I'm waiting for the Pandora, though: x86 UMPCs are expensive as balls and the battery life is hardly better than my laptop's.

 

[DRED]

Whats with this arm revision, and when will it come out? Doesn't it suck that the pandora won't have this new revision?

 

[WizardStan]

Whats with this arm revision, and when will it come out? Doesn't it suck that the pandora won't have this new revision?

No, because if we waited for the next revision, there would be ANOTHER revision right around the corner. There is always something newer and better just around the corner, and if you don't make the grab, you will spend your entire life waiting for it. Pandora is made with bleeding edge technology now that will only no longer be bleeding edge in no less than one year from now (give or take a few months)

 

[lulzfish]

Whats with this arm revision, and when will it come out? Doesn't it suck that the pandora won't have this new revision?

It does suck, but that's how things are.
It takes a few years to get a design together and start building the device. The available hardware is always going to lag the latest hardware developments.

For instance, the only other device that comes close to the Pandora right now is the VERY latest iPhone.
We're going to be competing hardware-wise with Apple. Doesn't that not suck?

 

[gruso]

And Engadget reported today that the iPhone 3GS is able to play 1080p video. Not at the highest bitrate or anything, but it's still a nice ballpark to be playing in.

 

[Blue Ion]

And Engadget reported today that the iPhone 3GS is able to play 1080p video. Not at the highest bitrate or anything, but it's still a nice ballpark to be playing in.

It is a good thing you mention it, because since the iphone 3gs has the same hardware as the pandora and it can play 1080p videos at at least 10 Mbps, then the pandora should be able to do so just as well, if not better. Of course, the decoder will need a mayor rehauling to support the dsp and perhaps the sgx, but the possibility is there.

On the other hand, like with the iphone, playing videos at 1080p is quite useless since the device has no way to express this resolution, but the advantage is to avoid reencoding all the videos to the pandora native resolution (specially me, since I have an aging P4 at 2,6 ghz and that can be a painful wait).
Perhaps it should be interesting to refloat the famous thread about how far video playback on the pandora can go.

 

[craigix]

800*480 OLED displays do exist but none at the size we currently need for the Pandora and the price of them is astronomical and the power useage higher than LCD. If we went for say the 5" one it would probably double the Pandora price and lower the battery life. We need to give OLED another 18 months at least to drop in price/evolve.

As for X86 Pandora - check out the OMAP4 specs, I can't help feeling that is going to blow away anything Intel might have planned. Being able to run x86 windows just means less and less these days - plus you might want to consider the fact MS is doing an ARM version of windows7.

 

[Blue Ion]

Being able to run x86 windows just means less and less these days - plus you might want to consider the fact MS is doing an ARM version of windows7.

Which will be as useful as the current linux offerings for the ARM if not less since it will have no programs (other than Windows' programs), though sadly more successful considering the idiocy of the people and the fact ARM netbook vendors will omit that simple detail.
If we look it within the scope of the pandora (as a gaming machine instead of a office or web browsing one), the main and perhaps only problem with ARM is, itself, the fact that it is ARM and the huge library of programs (and games) won't run, at least without expansive emulation that even the Cortex A9 will have trouble handling to achieve Windows 95 perfomance, programs and games for Windows 95 that is.
That is why I say a pandora with an x86 would be insane. All the library of the PC market plus already available emulators and programs.

The 5 hours of battery isn't such a far cry from the 8 the pandora can achieve. And price, well, it's just twice as expansive, out of my range definitely but not ludicrous expansive (as the OQO for example).
The people that did the UMID are just starting with these things just like the OpenPandora team, and just like the pandora team, if they survive, a bright future lies ahead, with Intel gearing up trying to compete with the future offerings of ARM, and ARM in turn trying to snag a piece of the boiling netbook market.

We know how ARM is going to this future, now it is time to see how intel will handle this, considering the humongous R&D staff they have.

 

[craigix]

I might be wrong but I think there being an ARM version of windows7 will mean at least a decent amount of dev studios will compile both an x86 and ARM version of their software. It's a start to the ARM future at least.

 

[Exophase]

As for X86 Pandora - check out the OMAP4 specs, I can't help feeling that is going to blow away anything Intel might have planned.

Sorry, but I disagree with this. A "1+" GHz Cortex-A9 won't beat a 2GHz Atom which is out today, never mind what will be out by the time Cortex-A9's are actually shipped in something. It may be a more advanced design but it's just not clocked nearly high enough. Dual core atoms exist as well, by the way.

 

[WizardStan]

I vote in favour of abandoning so called "clock speeds" entirely

 

[Exophase]

Haha, have fun designing an asynchronous CPU, it's very difficult. In fact, most much simpler ICs are synchronous.

Fortunately, modern pipelined CPUs are balanced pretty well so the slowest pipeline stage isn't that much slower than the fastest one. Or at least, this is what I'm led to believe while having no hard proof of it. But it's pretty intuitive when you consider that increasing the pipeline length has usually helped increase the clock speed.

 

[lulzfish]

I vote in favour of abandoning so called "clock speeds" entirely

I would agree, if only it were that easy.
Clocks simplify everything.
Asynchronous CPUs would be cool, if only anybody made them. For now, ARM seems to be the revolution, in making UMPCs possible.