Wifi Module?

[Axaj]

Are there any 802.11n wifi modules we could replace the standard Pandora one with?

 

[Aninhumer]

The WiFi module is a chip on the board, so replacing it would be incredibly difficult.

There is a USB 2.0 host port so there's no reason you couldn't use a (linux compatible) 11n WiFi dongle with it, although it would use up your USB slot.

 

[Axaj]

The WiFi module is a chip on the board, so replacing it would be incredibly difficult.

I know how to solder proficiently, and by the time I get my Pandora (I'm too lazy to preorder) I should be comfortable desoldering and soldering SMDs.

 

[mali]

You would have to find a drop-in replacement module. But why do you want to replace it, if I may ask? Btw, Bluetooth and Wifi are on one module.

Edit:
Oh, I missed the "n" so question answered itself.

 

[cbox]

Also you'd probably have to find the linux drivers for the replacement module and build them for the OS.

 

[droneb]

also you could damage the solder joints of the processor by doing that

 

[JayFoxRox]

So you can solder these by hand?

Note that these don't actually seem to have pins

 

[lulzfish]

I should be comfortable desoldering and soldering SMDs.

Note that these don't actually seem to have pins

Axaj has confidence, I'll give him that. All the previous issues still stand: Finding a pin-identical replacement, getting Linux drivers, putting them in your kernel, etc.

 

[BaDToaD]

I'm curious as to why you'd need 802.11n on a handheld device. No sarcasm here, just curious.

 

[j.pickens]

Since Wireless g is already faster than most incoming cable modem service, I don't see the point of an 802.11N upgrade.
I would think the only thing which wireless n would do is make file copying a bit snappier from the Pandora to a computer on your network.
Not worth the bother, probably, as the Pandora probably couldn't keep up with 200mbs anyway.
You'd probably get a bigger speed boost by hooking up the computer you want to copy files from with a wired network cable to your router.
If both the Pandora and your linked computer are using WiFi, they will both have to traffic the Wifi, and slow it down.

 

[JayFoxRox]

I should be comfortable desoldering and soldering SMDs.

Note that these don't actually seem to have pins

Axaj has confidence, I'll give him that. All the previous issues still stand: Finding a pin-identical replacement, getting Linux drivers, putting them in your kernel, etc.

This one seems to be an MLP package (Only googled this, no idea, really) and seems significantly harder to solder than some other SMD parts. I have no problems soldering some SMD ICs neither, but this is small with lots of pins and some even seem to be on the bottom of it.

 

[Gary13579]

Since Wireless g is already faster than most incoming cable modem service, I don't see the point of an 802.11N upgrade.
I would think the only thing which wireless n would do is make file copying a bit snappier from the Pandora to a computer on your network.
Not worth the bother, probably, as the Pandora probably couldn't keep up with 200mbs anyway.
You'd probably get a bigger speed boost by hooking up the computer you want to copy files from with a wired network cable to your router.
If both the Pandora and your linked computer are using WiFi, they will both have to traffic the Wifi, and slow it down.

802.11g isn't a full 54mbit, that's theoretical best. As in, same level as the router, 3 meters away with direct vision, no other devices on the network, and no radio interference. The actual, real world case is more like 24mbit.

I'm not positive, but I believe 802.11g reserves half of the bandwidth for uploading. Now, when downloading a file, you send a few bytes request and get a several mb/gb file in return... which means the few bytes has 12mbit, but the download is also limited to 12mbit. This is just my understanding of the technology.

So in a real world case, 12mbit is maximum download speed, which is only 1.5mb/s. If you have an 802.11b device on the network, you can cut this speed down by approx 30% because of limitations using B devices on G networks.

 

[droneb]

Since Wireless g is already faster than most incoming cable modem service, I don't see the point of an 802.11N upgrade.
I would think the only thing which wireless n would do is make file copying a bit snappier from the Pandora to a computer on your network.
Not worth the bother, probably, as the Pandora probably couldn't keep up with 200mbs anyway.
You'd probably get a bigger speed boost by hooking up the computer you want to copy files from with a wired network cable to your router.
If both the Pandora and your linked computer are using WiFi, they will both have to traffic the Wifi, and slow it down.

802.11g isn't a full 54mbit, that's theoretical best. As in, same level as the router, 3 meters away with direct vision, no other devices on the network, and no radio interference. The actual, real world case is more like 24mbit.

I'm not positive, but I believe 802.11g reserves half of the bandwidth for uploading. Now, when downloading a file, you send a few bytes request and get a several mb/gb file in return... which means the few bytes has 12mbit, but the download is also limited to 12mbit. This is just my understanding of the technology.

So in a real world case, 12mbit is maximum download speed, which is only 1.5mb/s. If you have an 802.11b device on the network, you can cut this speed down by approx 30% because of limitations using B devices on G networks.

there are several others factors
most on the protocol side.

the speed always advertised on the hardware is limited to a top transmission bit rate whenever it is or not a usefull payload.

it means that you have to waste around 5% up to 35% (more or less)of the bandwidth depending on the base protocol
IIRC TCP/IP has its optimal on 6xx bits per packet so leaving a 95% of usefull payload.

plus add up the higher level and undeline protocols wasting more, and for most of the cases the operative reserves some BW in order to keep a good QoS


going back to the topic, really you need to have the proper tools (field heater with the sized iron) a reworking station to remove the original pack
and a good scope or eagle eyes plus hands steady like a maracas player XD

its really hard, i have a dell 600m and the video chipset failed because of a single solder joint failure, just because of that it render my old allterrain laptop useless, been over several places and no one could fix it.(now that i remember) it was way too hard to fix it because the board becomes convex due to the heat

 

[grasshoppir]

remember pics for the fail blog plz

 

[Tor]

I have noticed that it gets more and more difficult to connect to the 802.11g networks around here. In one location I can at all times see 20-24 different networks, most of them closed ones, but it means that, due to interference, it's sometimes impossible to connect to the one I want to use (even when close to the router in the pub).

I imagine that in the near future there will be a number of networks moving over to 802.11n and 5GHz, simply because there's no room on G anymore. By that time I may try to get my 802.11n dongle working with the Panda.

 

[juniorm33]

I imagine that in the near future there will be a number of networks moving over to 802.11n and 5GHz, simply because there's no room on G anymore. By that time I may try to get my 802.11n dongle working with the Panda.

I run a 802.11n 5GHz WPA2 radius server at home, so it's not that far away.
It's totally locked down to that speed, so I'll have to 'consider' opening it up to G.
2.4GHz is pretty congested.

It's not only about if your connection is faster than the net (as someone mentioned), it's if your moving big files around also.

So there could be very valid reasons that he wants 11n, he may not have any control to how the network is set up that he wants to connect to.
Saying that, it sounds like a massive undertaking to try to change and get the module working.

A dongle may just be the easiest way for you to get your 11n when you need it.

 

[Gary13579]

I have noticed that it gets more and more difficult to connect to the 802.11g networks around here. In one location I can at all times see 20-24 different networks, most of them closed ones, but it means that, due to interference, it's sometimes impossible to connect to the one I want to use (even when close to the router in the pub).

I imagine that in the near future there will be a number of networks moving over to 802.11n and 5GHz, simply because there's no room on G anymore. By that time I may try to get my 802.11n dongle working with the Panda.

Erm, excuse my ignorance on how radio waves work, but 2.4ghz spectrum is 2,400,000,000 to 2,499,000,000 (roughly, depends on area and legal status of available channels)... but this would mean 99,000,000 wireless devices in the same area? I somehow doubt we're going to saturate that fast.

With stuff like cell phones, with a much longer broadcast radius, I could see us saturating it... but with 802.11g? Unless each connected device is allocated an entire 1mhz range, what?

 

[Tor]

Well, yes, you _are_ ignorant!
There are only 13 channels available for 802.11g (in Europe. 11 in the US, 14 in Japan).
These overlap. To avoid interference you need to be 3 channels away. So, it starts to get congested very, very quickly.
The pub I mentioned I used to be able to connect from the nearest park, quite far away. Now I have big problems connecting even when 5 meters away. This is a problem that has gradually increased as the area got more and more covered with networks.

EDIT: Here's a nice graphical of how the channels interact: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#Channels_and_international_compatibility

(There's not just 1 MHz per channel, that would give you abysmal performance: A theoretical 1Mbit if you look at it simplistically.)

 

[Gary13579]

I understood channels and that they overlapped, but I was misunderstanding the way radio waves work. I think I've got a better grasp on it, thanks for the clarification .

 

[Axboeg]

Which hardware does it use? (vendor, make)?