Sorry to ramble, but one last thought about the iMod: the reason it's around is that it's probably the cheapest way to provide an audio source that hosts lossless files and that is not going to introduce electrical interference into the system by being plugged in (meaning it runs off of its own battery). A flash memory iPod doesn't have the capacity to be useful in hosting lossless files, so there's little impetus to keep the iMod going except with the iPod Classic. Not sure why they haven't done that yet.
What Will Be The Best Audio Out?
- Thread starter Bosbeetle
- Start date
nikkopt said:cobaltage said:
Unless you don't mind having less songs on your device. And there are those who enjoy high bit-rate mp3's or aac's as much as lossless formats..
I agree with you, but the iMod is for people who don't. I mean, an alternative the iMod for an audiophile would be hacking a Logitech Squeezebox with a lead-acid battery so that it can run for 18 hours between charges, in order to keep it from running on AC, and hooking it up to a $10,000 pre-amp/amplifier and a $15,000 pair of speakers. If I ever hit the lottery, maybe I'll see if it's all worth it.
I did find it interesting that the built-in Wolfson DAC in the iPod is sufficient for audiophile purposes, though.
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rabidpoobear
Active Member
Or just pay some EE friend of yours a grand to help you make some electrostatics and add in an infinite baffle sub. $15,000 speakers don't have $15,000 of components in them. I'd rather spend that cash on the components (I wouldn't pay someone to help me assemble them either, personally. But I enjoy doing crap like that.)cobaltage said:
Also I'd rather spend $400 making a nice gainclone (throw in a microcontroller and have a remote-controlled stepped attenuator), and spend the other $9600 on a couple of vacations or a new car or something. I care about sound quality, but there's a point where the cost/benefit ratio is just retardedly high, and I hope I never have the urge to go beyond or even approach that threshold. Besides, if you put $15,000 speakers in a room that's not acoustically treated they'll still sound like crap. That's what really makes me sad. People blow all this money on all this gear and then don't use it right (just like the example of using the headphone out on the iPod with their dedicated headphone amps.)
Personally I have really good ears and I can tell when stuff sounds like crap, but if it sounds decent that's good enough for me, and my definition of "decent" is pretty flexible. A lot of music is not recorded that well anyway. Plus with the Loudness Wars dynamic range is pretty nonexistent now in modern music. Stupid radio.
I appreciate better sound but it's not necessary, and it's pretty low on my priorities. Then again I'd drop $2,000 on a 1080p projector in a heartbeat if I had some extra cash (have a 720p projector currently). Also get one of those fixed frame glass screens... mmm...
Someone needs to come out with a plasma tweeter kit already.
[edit] this post is not directed specifically at you, colbatage, it's just a general commentary on Audiophiles.
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I know a true audiophile, he is currently building a multimedia room with acoustic covering on the walls.
He owns a high quality stereo with awfully pricey speakers...
He never bought MP3 player because his DAT walkman has far superior sound quality.
It's great cause when I want to know about the quality of audio hardware, I ask him, he always tell that it's crap compared to what he owns, but that it would be sufficient for me
He owns a high quality stereo with awfully pricey speakers...
He never bought MP3 player because his DAT walkman has far superior sound quality.
It's great cause when I want to know about the quality of audio hardware, I ask him, he always tell that it's crap compared to what he owns, but that it would be sufficient for me
rabidpoobear said:
I agree with you. I think there's probably a small subset of people who rapidly adjust to more and more definition in their aural perception, and they just get hooked.
I would love to have a friend or neighbor who was an audiophile, though.
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fraseyboy
Member
Do you think it would be in any way possible to go straight from the DAC using TOSlink or some other such digital interface?
rabidpoobear
Active Member
Just use a USB sound card with S/PDIF and you don't involve the DAC at all. digital all the way to your receiver.fraseyboy said:
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http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/amigo/home.aspx This is Linux friendly at least in x86. hopefully with arm as well. Has Optical SPDIF out with toslink adapter.rabidpoobear said:
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Your average audiophile will tell you that elevating your equipment on wood blocks (not just any wood blocks, of course, they're special! they have to be, or they wouldn't cost so much) will improve the sound of your system...
Also, I understand the reason the iMod can't be done on newer players is that there's simply not enough room for the (supposedly audiophile-grade) capacitors they install or something.
Anyway, what I've found is that the difference between headphones is much, much bigger than any increase in quality you'll get from using an expensive amp or DAC (provided your hardware is reasonably decent, which is not the same thing as expensive). Well, even more of a contributor is recording quality - well-recorded and well-mastered audio will sound a lot better than the average stuff out there even on pretty cheap headphones. Once you get above a certain point (which can probably be anywhere from $50-120, in my admittedly not extremely extensive experience) the increase in sound quality you get from expensive headphones is pretty small. Still noticeable, but nowhere near worth the money you'll pay for "audiophile" stuff. The situation is similar, but even more pronounced, with amps and other equipment (talking headphone amps here, I don't really know about speakers) - I doubt I could tell the difference between properly-functioning (not underpowered and so forth) amps in a blind test. Of course, audiophiles seem to be allergic to properly-conducted blind tests.
I don't really have any doubts about the Pandora's sound quality.
Also, I understand the reason the iMod can't be done on newer players is that there's simply not enough room for the (supposedly audiophile-grade) capacitors they install or something.
Anyway, what I've found is that the difference between headphones is much, much bigger than any increase in quality you'll get from using an expensive amp or DAC (provided your hardware is reasonably decent, which is not the same thing as expensive). Well, even more of a contributor is recording quality - well-recorded and well-mastered audio will sound a lot better than the average stuff out there even on pretty cheap headphones. Once you get above a certain point (which can probably be anywhere from $50-120, in my admittedly not extremely extensive experience) the increase in sound quality you get from expensive headphones is pretty small. Still noticeable, but nowhere near worth the money you'll pay for "audiophile" stuff. The situation is similar, but even more pronounced, with amps and other equipment (talking headphone amps here, I don't really know about speakers) - I doubt I could tell the difference between properly-functioning (not underpowered and so forth) amps in a blind test. Of course, audiophiles seem to be allergic to properly-conducted blind tests.
I don't really have any doubts about the Pandora's sound quality.
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^ yeah I get a kick at of extreme audiophiles, I've seen people sell $200 dollar power cords, wooded audio knobs. It's a whole bunch of nonsense and these people that buy into it and truly believe it will improve their audio quality. It's just like that cheap / expensive wine experiment where the cheap wine kept winning the taste test when it was labelled as an expensive wine.
fraseyboy
Member
Don't lump all audiophiles into one category. Your average audiophile would agree that expensive wooden knobs which claim to increase sound quality are utter bullshit. It is only the minority who notice performance improvements and while these improvements are most likely in their heads, they still improve the sounds to their ears, thus making the product valuable.
I agree that upgrading headphones is going to offer a much larger improvement (depending on the headphones) than upgrading the amp or DAC. In my experience, upgrading to a good quality external DAC is also a bigger improvement than upgrading to an external headphone amp (depending on the headphones again).
I agree that upgrading headphones is going to offer a much larger improvement (depending on the headphones) than upgrading the amp or DAC. In my experience, upgrading to a good quality external DAC is also a bigger improvement than upgrading to an external headphone amp (depending on the headphones again).
rabidpoobear
Active Member
This is me. I double-blind whenever possible. I've noticed some people don't seem to get the concept that "sounding different" or "sounding brighter" or something is not the same thing as accurate reproduction. There's a lot of factors in audio quality perception, and some people like to be scientific about it and some don't.fraseyboy said:
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Asmo
Advanced Member
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I remember a respected Audiophile magazine, around 1988, gave away a 'sample pack' of little black metallic stickers, impressively packaged and labelled. Inside there was a 4 page feature detailing the science behind them, and quoting several enthusiastic test reports.
The stickers were supposed to be strategically (and geometrically) placed on AC outlets, Amplifier corners, AC plugs and even doors and windows. The article claimed they disrupted magnetic waves that affected the performance of both HiFi components and speaker drivers. Several of the regular advertisers carried the product in their listings that month, at around $20 for a small number of these stickers.
The following month, the readers letters page was awash with reports of 'improved fidelity' 'stunning frequency response' and the like. The advertisers also reported a flood of orders for the things.
Noone had noticed that the previous issue on which the (previously unheard of) stickers came, was dated April 1st.
I'm pretty sure the magazine went into rapid decline thereafter.
The stickers were supposed to be strategically (and geometrically) placed on AC outlets, Amplifier corners, AC plugs and even doors and windows. The article claimed they disrupted magnetic waves that affected the performance of both HiFi components and speaker drivers. Several of the regular advertisers carried the product in their listings that month, at around $20 for a small number of these stickers.
The following month, the readers letters page was awash with reports of 'improved fidelity' 'stunning frequency response' and the like. The advertisers also reported a flood of orders for the things.
Noone had noticed that the previous issue on which the (previously unheard of) stickers came, was dated April 1st.
I'm pretty sure the magazine went into rapid decline thereafter.
rabidpoobear
Active Member
HAH. If you remember the magazine let me know, would love to track down a copy of itAsmo said:
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marshal
Member
OMG that sticker story is so good.
Bosbeetle
Terminally lost
I just paid the TV out cable
GizmoTheGreen
Active Member
congrats
