What sort of keyboard should P2 have?

[Grench]

If you had to describe the current Pandora's keys, would you call them soft or clicky? Are they similar to the keys on a blackberry? Also how does the responsiveness and tactile feel of the keys change over time?

Soft - but with threshold feel.  The resistance is high then low as the rubber dome collapses during key press.   Key travel is more than you would expect.  Still, it's meant to be used with thumbs.  Finding the 'right key' when thumb typing is made easier with the dome-top keys.

The blackberry I used to have had very short mechanical spring based key travel - semi-clicky.  The Pandora's keys are nothing like that.  To describe the Pandora's key feel... hmmm...  Kind of like the keys on a remote control only much higher quality with more feel?

The keymats do 'break in' over time.  When I got my 1Ghz Pandora I was surprised at how much resistance the keys had compared to the CC Pandora that I'd been using before.  It is noticeable going from one unit to another.  However, I've never broken one down.  They get better with use - not worse.

Keep in mind, this is a console sold in thousands of units - not tens of thousands.  There isn't a budget to design a custom 3-piece click mechanism per key and assemble hundreds of tiny mechanical parts per keypad.  Rubber dome isn't the greatest keyboard on earth - but done right they're not horrid.  It's a thumb-only keyboard.  Anyone who touch types on the thing must be 8 years old or have tiny tiny hands.

If you're going to do any 'serious typing', plug in a USB keyboard OR use a bluetooth one.  I have one of these that I use with my Pandora occasionally:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Foldable-Folding-Bluetooth-QWERTY-Keyboard-for-PC-tablet-Smartphones-/121073968486

Note:  Mine was a different brand and not sold through a China-direct company - but it looks identical to the one in this ad.

Does that help?

 

[zonova]

Thanks Grench, that did help a lot In terms of clickiness, would it be comparable at all to like the letter buttons on an xbox 360 controller?

 

[zonova]

Hmm, I'm going to need to quote something :

I would be greatly pleased if I can hold pandora 2 with one hand while tap with its keyboard with the other. This is not possible due to pandora's bottons all have ridiculous travel and are generally really stiff and spongy. I have to forcefully grasp it at the edges with both hands to type anything, it's really annoying and kinda defeats the purpose of having a full keyboard.

Someone in that thread had also posted a picture of a keyboard, which I thought I'd bring back. It looks nice:

http://old-organizers.com/MorePicts/MP64.htm

 

[Grench]

Hmm, I'm going to need to quote something :

I would be greatly pleased if I can hold pandora 2 with one hand while tap with its keyboard with the other. This is not possible due to pandora's bottons all have ridiculous travel and are generally really stiff and spongy. I have to forcefully grasp it at the edges with both hands to type anything, it's really annoying and kinda defeats the purpose of having a full keyboard.

Someone in that thread had also posted a picture of a keyboard, which I thought I'd bring back. It looks nice:

http://old-organizers.com/MorePicts/MP64.htm

That is a trade off.

Right now the keyboard is designed for thumb typing.  For that you want a higher resistance and positive feedback (high travel and positive break point).  The higher resistance and round key tops allows you to run your thumb over the key tops while 'counting' key tops to find the right key to then depress.  If that resistance were gone, as xiongxioi requested, then that motion of dragging your thumb over the keys to make your 'no look' selection would have a MUCH higher chance of making false-selections for you.

The existing Pandora keyboard's key travel, round tops and general feel is pretty darn near perfect for this type of device.  Believe it or not.

People who are asking for 'flat keys' with less travel aren't thumb typing - they're hunting/pecking with their finger tips or trying to touch type on a 25% sized keyboard.  They're, "doing it wrong".  If the keyboard were changed to fit this population set, it would completely suck for anyone actually trying to use it with their thumbs.

The Pandora has a thumb optimized keyboard.  That shouldn't require an apology to those who think they should be able to touch type on a 100mm wide keyboard.  The Pyra should also have a thumb optimized keyboard.  Yes, this means rounded key tops, longish throw and positive feedback (break point or trigger-break).

 

[zonova]

I guess I don't know quite what I'm talking about, since I don't currently own a Pandora, and I have never typed on a Pandora's keyboard. However, the description of it having "spongy" keys didn't sound how I would have liked it. I don't think xiong was against round keys, or at least, I don't particularly see a problem with that. I, however, do think that you can optimize for both thumb typed as well as for people using one hand to type, I think that the pandoras keyboard is an appropriate size for that. I definitely to like the feedback and clicky feel, but then why exactly is he calling it "spongy"?

 

[Grench]

I guess I don't know quite what I'm talking about, since I don't currently own a Pandora, and I have never typed on a Pandora's keyboard. However, the description of it having "spongy" keys didn't sound how I would have liked it. I don't think xiong was against round keys, or at least, I don't particularly see a problem with that. I, however, do think that you can optimize for both thumb typed as well as for people using one hand to type, I think that the pandoras keyboard is an appropriate size for that. I definitely to like the feedback and clicky feel, but then why exactly is he calling it "spongy"?

What major City are you in or closest to?  There are proud Pandora owners worldwide.  Maybe you could buy one of them a cup of coffee in exchange for a solid test drive/look?

 

[Granitehead]

Grench: There is no wrong way.

I personally would like less travel and a more clicky feeling.

If I get it right that would work with Grench's way of typing as long as the resistance isn't too low but when it isn't too high either it would still be better than the P1's keyboard for typing in other ways (one hand holding the Pandora, one typing or touch typing if your fingers are small enough {mine are and I'm no 8 year old}).

 

[Neelix]

Right now the keyboard is designed for thumb typing. For that you want a higher resistance and positive feedback (high travel and positive break point). The higher resistance and round key tops allows you to run your thumb over the key tops while 'counting' key tops to find the right key to then depress. If that resistance were gone, as xiongxioi requested, then that motion of dragging your thumb over the keys to make your 'no look' selection would have a MUCH higher chance of making false-selections for you.

Why do you always seem to think people requesting an adjustment want that modification taken to the extreme?  In reality most people people want specific level of something, which isn't always the highest level and isn't always the lowest level.    

I can just picture you trying to manually tune in a TV and wondering why you can never find a channel, even though you've checked the top  and bottom of the bandwidth. :rolleyes:    There is such a thing as fine tuning.

The reality is that the Pandora's keyboard has far more resistance and travel than is required to be able run a finger across the keys without pressing them,  more than is comfortable for many, including myself.   The resistance and travel could (and should) both be reduced, enough to make it a lot easier to press the buttons,  but they should remain high enough to ensure that any key press is deliberate when used in the fashion you described.

- Neelix

 

[WizardStan]

I definitely to like the feedback and clicky feel, but then why exactly is he calling it "spongy"?

I wouldn't call it spongy. It has a bit of soft give to it, a little bit of flex, but the you have a point: compress it a mm or two and it suddenly convexes with a slightly satisfying click. More of a "puck" than a "click" I think. We can debae the nuances of different sound effects all day.

 

[God Ginrai]

For me, the perfect keyboard for the Pyra would be one that feels just like a game button when it is used. That way, the keys can be used interchangeably for when you need more buttons for a game or emulator. (N64)

Of course, if we upgraded the ABXY buttons to ABCXYZ, then I wouldn't be as concerned about that. (Although I would still want a keyboard that is comfortable)

-God Ginrai