What Are The Conditions For A Successor Development?

[WizardStan]

There is an ocean of blank space around the current screen. At 220ppi, a 1280 display is 5.8" wide. That is still quite a bit narrower than the 6.9" width of the Pandora. So by my reckoning, a 720p display can happily fit in the same case size. With room for speakers. I'll happily take crappier speakers and a bigger screen.

There's room horizontally, perhaps, but what about vertically? The screen is about as tall as it's going to get in it's current form. Make it any taller and it will no longer fit in most peoples pockets. Well, it would fit in mine, but I accept that I have huge pockets; I bought these pants for that specific reason, but I digress.
And you suggested paying $100 for a rotating tablet screen, and then suggest to those that don't want to use it to not use it? Why should people pay $100 for a feature they don't like and don't want to use? You're not thinking your arguments through enough. Please, try again.

 

[mduffor]

A 1280x720 screen has 2.4 times the number of pixels as an 800x480 one. That's nearly two and a half times more calculations needed by the processor and graphics chip to fill it. Given that battery life and CPU power (and cost) are a concern with handheld devices (and that you really won't notice the difference on a screen that small), it just doesn't make sense to me to up the resolution like that. My N810 has a similar sized screen at 800x480, and I can tell you it is a beautiful image as it is.

Right now what the Pandora needs (other than to get through manufacturing) is software availablity, more polished OS/drivers/UI, and market penetration. Any possible hardware limitations are not what is currently standing in its way.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[craigix]

The Pandora2 will most likely just have an OMAP4 stuck in the same case whenever the OMAP4 is done, which is probably going to be 2011. (don't believe any press releases saying 2009 etc. it is just for people like Nokia and samples).

 

[fischju2000]

The hinge and things look enough like an NDS, so I'm guessing the bottom half of the case can be taken apart while leaving hinge cable where it is, allowing for pretty easy replacement of the board. But is that the system the Pandora will be? A new board every couple of years?

 

[mali]

As long as evolution doesn't grow us a second pair of thumbs this concept could work
Maybe a tweak here and there. If the controls are perfect, then why change them?

 

[second exodous]

The Pandora2 will most likely just have an OMAP4 stuck in the same case whenever the OMAP4 is done, which is probably going to be 2011. (don't believe any press releases saying 2009 etc. it is just for people like Nokia and samples).

SCORE!!!

Using the same case saves so much time/effort on the Pandora2. We'd have our Pandora1s right now if it wasn't for the case.

 

[emil10001]

If it's two-three years after i get the first one in my hands, i'd probably pre-order a pandora2. Though, why not shoot for an OMAP5?

 

[Exophase]

If it's two-three years after i get the first one in my hands, i'd probably pre-order a pandora2. Though, why not shoot for an OMAP5?

Why not shoot for an OMAP12? In 2-3 years OMAP4 is liable to be decently mature and tested while its successor probably won't be out yet.

 

[second exodous]

If it's two-three years after i get the first one in my hands, i'd probably pre-order a pandora2. Though, why not shoot for an OMAP5?

Why not shoot for an OMAP12? In 2-3 years OMAP4 is liable to be decently mature and tested while its successor probably won't be out yet.

I agree, what ever is more available at the time they start working on the next Pandora board. If Ti will give them 'the next release' early then they can work with that and truly be one of the first to release a OMAPX device.

Two years sounds like it will be a OMAP4 unless Ti has OMAP5 samples. Like Exophase points out though OMAP4 will be mature and the safer bet.

 

[Grench]

The Pandora2 will most likely just have an OMAP4 stuck in the same case whenever the OMAP4 is done, which is probably going to be 2011. (don't believe any press releases saying 2009 etc. it is just for people like Nokia and samples).

My thoughts... not that my thoughts matter, but we're stuck waiting on cases again so what the heck.

2012Q3 OpenPandora II
Same case - or as close as can be with whatever is added on
Same keyboard
Same controls - maybe add 2nd shoulder buttons if a good way can be devised to do it
Same or equivalent screen - needs to fit the case lid - Maybe a Pixel Qi screen?
Same physical battery size - more Ah if technology to do so is cheap enough
OMAP4 1+ Ghz dual core
1GB RAM, 1GB flash
GPS with external antenna port
SDXC card slots x2 with 300MB/sec transfer capability per card slot
802.11n with external antenna port
USB 3.0 Host & Device
Bluetooth (keep, whatever the current version is - 3.0?)
DVI or HDMI output
IRDA strong enough to reach 20' for remote control usage. Put the IR transmitter above the left speaker in the lid top.
Accelerometer - if there is room
ATSC/FM tuner with external antenna port

NO camera, NO phone <= wasted space & cost

IMHO. Yes, some of the above is 'dream on mode'. But, again, what the heck. It's 2+ years away.

 

[emil10001]

If it's two-three years after i get the first one in my hands, i'd probably pre-order a pandora2. Though, why not shoot for an OMAP5?

Why not shoot for an OMAP12? In 2-3 years OMAP4 is liable to be decently mature and tested while its successor probably won't be out yet.

I guess I would just be concerned with pumping out a new pandora for every omap iteration. Why not go every other generation or something like that? Just a few months ago the team was saying that they didn't even want to think about a pandora2 for 5 years or something. I guess that what I was saying before is that while I probably would buy one, because I like to have bleeding edge stuff, a lot of other people would be pissed off that they waited for a year or two for this device to come out, and then two years in they are abandoning it for the next thing. That's how a lot of the ITT community felt when nokia released the n810, and then promptly abandoned the omap2 platform for omap3, leaving all those previous users in the lurch with a platform that was to be abandoned after only a couple of years.

The other thing is that as soon as the OMAP4 launches TI will start working on the OMAP5 (unless they break their naming scheme), and by the time the pandora2 launches there will inevitably be OMAP5 devices demoed at CES 201X. If OP starts down that road, then what's the point of it being a platform? My understanding of this project was to have a single set of hardware to work with for a while, keeping all of the userbase able to run whatever gets developed by devs. If there is a split that is introduced only a couple of years out, it will splinter the userbase as well as development efforts.

 

[zaoin]

Pandora2 should be an easy detachable lego pandora.

 

[krosfyah]

HDMI would definitely be nice.

 

[craigix]

If it's two-three years after i get the first one in my hands, i'd probably pre-order a pandora2. Though, why not shoot for an OMAP5?

Why not shoot for an OMAP12? In 2-3 years OMAP4 is liable to be decently mature and tested while its successor probably won't be out yet.

I guess I would just be concerned with pumping out a new pandora for every omap iteration. Why not go every other generation or something like that? Just a few months ago the team was saying that they didn't even want to think about a pandora2 for 5 years or something. I guess that what I was saying before is that while I probably would buy one, because I like to have bleeding edge stuff, a lot of other people would be pissed off that they waited for a year or two for this device to come out, and then two years in they are abandoning it for the next thing. That's how a lot of the ITT community felt when nokia released the n810, and then promptly abandoned the omap2 platform for omap3, leaving all those previous users in the lurch with a platform that was to be abandoned after only a couple of years.

The other thing is that as soon as the OMAP4 launches TI will start working on the OMAP5 (unless they break their naming scheme), and by the time the pandora2 launches there will inevitably be OMAP5 devices demoed at CES 201X. If OP starts down that road, then what's the point of it being a platform? My understanding of this project was to have a single set of hardware to work with for a while, keeping all of the userbase able to run whatever gets developed by devs. If there is a split that is introduced only a couple of years out, it will splinter the userbase as well as development efforts.

Because if we don't, someone else will.

We have to keep up with technology, look at apple. They do it in a neat way I think.

Or I could bring up Intel...

 

[Yoyobuae]

The OMAP3 is broken into 3 distinct groups: the OMAP34x, the OMAP35x, and the OMAP36x. OMAP34x and OMAP36x are distributed directly to large handset (such as cell phone) manufacturers. OMAP35x is a variant of OMAP34x intended for catalog distribution channels.

If I understand correctly, OpenPandora can only buy the catalog versions (they're not "large handset manufacturers"). That means that they'll need to wait at least for the release of OMAP45xx versions before even considering using it. Even then, we can't expect for them to cook up Pandora2 just in a few months (Two Months (tm)).

Anyway, for one I'd rather not see Pandora join the MHz race.

EDIT: ninja'd h34r:
Well, it's as long as you take your time developing Pandora2, say two ...

 

[second exodous]

If it's two-three years after i get the first one in my hands, i'd probably pre-order a pandora2. Though, why not shoot for an OMAP5?

Why not shoot for an OMAP12? In 2-3 years OMAP4 is liable to be decently mature and tested while its successor probably won't be out yet.

I guess I would just be concerned with pumping out a new pandora for every omap iteration. Why not go every other generation or something like that? Just a few months ago the team was saying that they didn't even want to think about a pandora2 for 5 years or something. I guess that what I was saying before is that while I probably would buy one, because I like to have bleeding edge stuff, a lot of other people would be pissed off that they waited for a year or two for this device to come out, and then two years in they are abandoning it for the next thing. That's how a lot of the ITT community felt when nokia released the n810, and then promptly abandoned the omap2 platform for omap3, leaving all those previous users in the lurch with a platform that was to be abandoned after only a couple of years.

The other thing is that as soon as the OMAP4 launches TI will start working on the OMAP5 (unless they break their naming scheme), and by the time the pandora2 launches there will inevitably be OMAP5 devices demoed at CES 201X. If OP starts down that road, then what's the point of it being a platform? My understanding of this project was to have a single set of hardware to work with for a while, keeping all of the userbase able to run whatever gets developed by devs. If there is a split that is introduced only a couple of years out, it will splinter the userbase as well as development efforts.

Because if we don't, someone else will.

We have to keep up with technology, look at apple. They do it in a neat way I think.

Or I could bring up Intel...

Craig, I know that you've already said that you're using the same case for the Pandora2. Just hear me out:

First, if the person ordering the new Pandor2 never had a Pandora1 it would just be sold like a handheld to these people.

If the orderie already had a Pandor1 I was wondering if you could do upgrades, like maybe the Pandora2 for those that already have the Pandora1 would use the same base case so we would just drop the new board in and re-use everything else. You would get the Pandora2 in it's own box, kinda what you were saying you wanted to make just a box with the same board. The base of this box would have extra openings for the HDMI out, eSATA, or whatever you add so when you put the new base with the new board into the old case it would be the handheld. Old base with old board would be hooked up to a TV with the video out, it wouldn't have it's own screen.

Pandora3 would have it's own case/screen but would be upgradeable when the new Pandor4 board came out, ect. until the end of time.

Every time I watch The Story of Stuff I feel like such a consumer whore. This way you could have a small impact on the stuff chain. This would also cut down on getting the Pandora2 out the door faster.

 

[Alec]

Every time I watch The Story of Stuff I feel like such a consumer whore. This way you could have a small impact on the stuff chain. This would also cut down on getting the Pandora2 out the door faster.

While I think it would be neat to be able to use a drop-in board, I think the above contradicts that notion. If you were to buy a whole new Pandora, you could leave the old one intact and use it for various things like a network storage device (if you attach a large USB drive), a small media center, or any other use a small general-purpose computer can offer (that you might actually buy a specialized device for!). You could also sell it on eBay for someone else to use.

If you replace the original board with a new one, on the other hand, you're essentially throwing away a perfectly good device and contributing to the waste.

 

[second exodous]

Every time I watch The Story of Stuff I feel like such a consumer whore. This way you could have a small impact on the stuff chain. This would also cut down on getting the Pandora2 out the door faster.

While I think it would be neat to be able to use a drop-in board, I think the above contradicts that notion. If you were to buy a whole new Pandora, you could leave the old one intact and use it for various things like a network storage device (if you attach a large USB drive), a small media center, or any other use a small general-purpose computer can offer (that you might actually buy a specialized device for!). You could also sell it on eBay for someone else to use.

If you replace the original board with a new one, on the other hand, you're essentially throwing away a perfectly good device and contributing to the waste.

Wait, you didn't understand, the old board would go into the new box and would be a headless system that would use the video out cable to hook into the TV. The box would be what Craig was planning on for his cube:

. . .Our 'cube' would still have the keypad and gaming controls, it would pretty much just be the lower half of the pandora, which if you wanted to play games you could just pick up like a joypad and use it.

So Pandora2 would come in a version of just a 'Cube' and you would swap the boards out with the Pandora1. The lower half of this 'cube' would have all the extra openings for all the Pandora2 extras, it would be compatible with the lower half of the base section of the the Pandor1 so you just pretty much swap out the bottom halves with the boards in them.

I'm horrible at describing things, sorry.

EDIT: But yeah, you could use it for whatever, it would be a headless system with a Pandora1 board, basically the Pandora1 without the screen. You would re-use the screen with the Pandora2 system.

I'm just throwing ideas out there, I don't have a perfect solution.

 

[emil10001]

If it's two-three years after i get the first one in my hands, i'd probably pre-order a pandora2. Though, why not shoot for an OMAP5?

Why not shoot for an OMAP12? In 2-3 years OMAP4 is liable to be decently mature and tested while its successor probably won't be out yet.

I guess I would just be concerned with pumping out a new pandora for every omap iteration. Why not go every other generation or something like that? Just a few months ago the team was saying that they didn't even want to think about a pandora2 for 5 years or something. I guess that what I was saying before is that while I probably would buy one, because I like to have bleeding edge stuff, a lot of other people would be pissed off that they waited for a year or two for this device to come out, and then two years in they are abandoning it for the next thing. That's how a lot of the ITT community felt when nokia released the n810, and then promptly abandoned the omap2 platform for omap3, leaving all those previous users in the lurch with a platform that was to be abandoned after only a couple of years.

The other thing is that as soon as the OMAP4 launches TI will start working on the OMAP5 (unless they break their naming scheme), and by the time the pandora2 launches there will inevitably be OMAP5 devices demoed at CES 201X. If OP starts down that road, then what's the point of it being a platform? My understanding of this project was to have a single set of hardware to work with for a while, keeping all of the userbase able to run whatever gets developed by devs. If there is a split that is introduced only a couple of years out, it will splinter the userbase as well as development efforts.

Because if we don't, someone else will.

We have to keep up with technology, look at apple. They do it in a neat way I think.

Or I could bring up Intel...

Not when it comes to game consoles. The psp is still effectively the same platform as it was when it first launched. Commercial games run on any version of the PSP (as far as I know). I think that we've seen that consoles tend to have much longer lives than the hardware would if it were a phone or pda or something else. Who are you competing with? I don't see anyone else in your space. Nobody else has a pocket-sized computer with gaming controls and a decent sized community bringing things like n64 and dreamcast emulation. Sure, those things might run on a next-gen psp, but firefox, openoffice and xterm won't. And, all of those apps would run on a netbook, but you don't have any built-in gaming controls there, and poor battery life.

So, what's the rush? Who is going to swoop in to your space and do it better than you? I think that you have got some time to build the userbase and polish your system for a few years. My biggest concern is rushing to a new platform that's going to break backwards compatibility with the current pandora. For a fairly small community, that could have a big negative impact. Especially when devs need to start making choices about what they're going to support. If they would need to spend a lot of time making something work ok on a pandora1, but not spend that much time and have something work pretty well on a pandora2, then they might not want to support the pandora1. Or, there might be devs who don't want to support the pandora2 because they only have pandora1 hardware and don't want to release something they can't test. So, you'll end up splitting up your userbase and your devbase if you release another console too early.

 

[Gilrad]

"more mhz" is a shoddy excuse to release new hardware. What of the functions the current Pandora handles would that improve?
Productivity and general computing? Though I haven't handled it myself, it looks like it can browse the internet, word process, and (once Flash support is native) do Youtube. No benefit.

Media playing? Unless HD-out is added, this will stay exactly the same. No benefit for upgrading

Games? If 3rd party game development takes off and developers need more hardware freedom, I can see an argument for this field, but other console manufacturers are quite content with five-year lifespans (with handhelds lasting even longer). Certainly no benefit for a while.

Emulation? Currently the only emulators that the Pandora might not be powerful enough to handle is Dreamcast, and (maybe, haven't checked back with it in a while) PSP. Is it worth making a new version just so that it can emulate those two systems? Personally, I don't think so, but I guess there are people who would say otherwise.


I personally would be pretty pissed if a new Pandora that could possibly complicate backwards compatibility, that doesn't even have an HD-out slot was released a little over a year after I got the original in my hands. If you're worried about competition, stepping on consumer confidence is NOT an advisable approach.