Troll Alert

[erico]

What exactly is the difference between a troll and a person hired by a company to work ´social media´?

 

[WizardStan]

ho no, i'm not excusing the behaviour at all

Not intentionally, but that is the direction your words were pointing. We're in a position of privilege, and even though you or I may never intentionally do something to hurt the unprivileged, there are those that could be emboldened by a mispoken word in the wrong context to speak out where they shouldn't and cause indirect harm. I am absolutely certain I will never be able to articulate this completely, I have spoken to people who have been studying the social phenomenon known as privilege for decades and it may as well have been quantum physics for the depth of understanding required. The low level I got is that if you're in a position of privilege then most of the time you don't even realize that what you're doing has a chance of impacting someone else.


As an extreme example, Marie Antoinette is well known for her statement "let them eat cake" in response to being told the peasants didn't have bread. She wasn't being flippant, she literally did not understand that no-bread meant no-anything. She was in an extreme position of privilege that she couldn't comprehend what was going on outside the palace, let alone consider how that would ultimately affect her and how she could fix it. I am sitting in my proverbial palace, being told that the peasants have no bread, desperately trying to figure out the best way to solve the problem and not have my head cut off. Meanwhile, there are other well off people in their palaces actively going out and taking what little the peasants have and using all kinds of arguments to justify their behavior. Then I hear a neighbor start to question if maybe these other kings in their castles might have reasonable justification and I'm just like woah, no, doesn't matter: treating people like shit is always bad.


"Baiting the trolls" is an argument akin to "you were raped because your skirt was too short". Just don't even start down that path, don't ever try to find any justification for people who treat others poorly. If some ass treated me bad and a friend dared to ask if maybe they were justified there would be so many levels of ass-kicking going on mathematicians would need a new way to count. Even if I knew that friend would never act on the behavior themselves, simply asking about it in that way lends credence to the behavior and detracts from the act.

 

[elwing]

I'ts not the direction my word were taking at least not as I intended them. interesting take on the subject I should say, but does that means that discution about viral marketing or social aspect in such a case should be considered tabu as people might think that we encourage the troll behaviour while we condamned it?

 

[WizardStan]

I'ts not the direction my word were taking at least not as I intended them.

Not what you were intending is exactly the kind of thing that we, as the privileged, need to watch out for. "I didn't mean it like THAT" solves nothing. "I can see why that might get misconstrued by someone and inadvertently cause harm" means you've learned.

interesting take on the subject I should say, but does that means that discution about viral marketing or social aspect in such a case should be considered tabu as people might think that we encourage the troll behaviour while we condamned it?

Of course it's not taboo. Discussion is not legitimate speculation. Talking about it should never be a problem. Thinking about ways she could have behaved that would have mitigated the backlash is an excellent exercise that we can all learn from. Wondering if she actively did something to "justify" the attack she received despite there being no evidence to suggest that be the case is definitely not good discussion, though. Personal attacks of this magnitude are never justified; being shitty to someone, even if that person did something first, is still being shitty to that person. Trying to find justification legitimizes the counter attack, whether you mean it to or not, and that is not a good path to start down.

 

[elwing]

interesting view and I have to wholly agree...


edit: by the way it was brioche not cake

 

[Prometheus]

but wonder if it would have reached this level of trolling if she had ignored them from day one.
Like a lot of bullying, tends to die down if you ignore it and don't rise to it / bite their bait

It wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference.

edit: by the way it was brioche not cake

Mmm, brioche...

 

[Halcyon]

I'm pretty excited to see what she has to say, I'm pretty sure it will just make my blood boil and get me all worked up based off of her comments on movies and such but I love discussions about video games and culture. I think in all likely hood I will be evaluating her on her capacity to be honest to what ever she is saying. I think key points to make would be: (If there is something wrong)


1) What is the damage (because video games have been out a long time now and have been pretty accessible to millions)


2) Evidence showing that action to correct the "problem" and regulation is objectively better then freedom of speech and expression.


3) And finally some examples of games that are "ok"


I'm eager to see this and want to know what she has to say but, i'm expecting it to be something I will have little agreement with but way to go for her get out there do something and cause a stir.

 

[Prometheus]

and cause a stir.

It's a real shame that this is seen as causing a stir... It shouldn't be. Imagine yourself making those same points about yourself and people like you - would you see it as an attempt to cause a stir then?

1) What is the damage (because video games have been out a long time now and have been pretty accessible to millions)

Well, let's see, getting death threats over video games on the basis of not having a penis is pretty damaging.

2) Evidence showing that action to correct the "problem" and regulation is objectively better then freedom of speech and expression.

Ahh, the old "freedom of speech" thing again! I hope you're referring to badly-made games, here, and not the behaviour of gamers...

3) And finally some examples of games that are "ok"

There aren't many. Give me a few hours so I've got a few minutes of free time, and I can compile that list myself.


Gamers ought to be damn well ashamed. They're keeping up and enforcing ancient religious biases that really have no reason to exist - after all, there is no real difference between the thinking and behaviour of the genders, in reality. We've got generations to go before we're back at the sort of levels seen thousands of years ago...


As for the ones that aren't behaving in this fashion, many of them ought to be ashamed, too, because by remaining silent and being spineless cowards by not speaking out when in actuality they really should, they're giving their tacit approval to this sort of thing.

 

[ZeroOne]

I just noticed this thread and was going to add my 2 cents but I don't think I am going to do that anymore on any public forum since any viewpoints I hold will probably get tarred as misogyny...


I am honestly sick of voicing genuine criticism on Anita because it just ends up getting tarred as trolling alongside the bandwagon idiots bullying her.


I'll probably just leave this video here since it more or less highlights my key arguments anyway (plus its voiced by the very charming KiteTales).

https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZueOCLGt1tw?feature=oembed

A lack of action doesn't mean passive approval and if you think so it is because of your own pre-existing bias... I do not approve the behaviour of these people, I just don't care enough to lash out.

 

[Prometheus]

As for the ones that aren't behaving in this fashion, many of them ought to be ashamed, too, because by remaining silent and being spineless cowards by not speaking out when in actuality they really should, they're giving their tacit approval to this sort of thing.

A lack of action doesn't mean passive approval and if you think so it is because of your own pre-existing bias.

I did already disclose that I hold my views due to past experience. I wouldn't call real experience bias, though.


I maintain that a lack of action when you're observing something like that is certainly not honourable, and, dare I say it, far from the right thing to do.

 

[ZeroOne]

As for the ones that aren't behaving in this fashion, many of them ought to be ashamed, too, because by remaining silent and being spineless cowards by not speaking out when in actuality they really should, they're giving their tacit approval to this sort of thing.

A lack of action doesn't mean passive approval and if you think so it is because of your own pre-existing bias.

I did already disclose that I hold my views due to past experience. I wouldn't call real experience bias, though.


I maintain that a lack of action when you're observing something like that is certainly not honourable, and, dare I say it, far from the right thing to do.

I never quoted on your experience, I may have incorrectly assumed you took the "black or white" argument because you had an established view on the situation and viewed anyone who didn't share this view as opposition. I apologise if this is incorrect.


Yeah, its not exactly chivalrous but I wouldn't insult or admonish anyone in this position.

 

[Prometheus]

I never quoted on your experience, I may have incorrectly assumed you took the "black or white" argument because you had an established view on the situation and viewed anyone who didn't share this view as opposition. I apologise if this is incorrect.

Apology accepted.


For the record, I wouldn't take a black-or-white view on something I've got no experience of, and certainly wouldn't view someone with a different view as "opposition". That is certainly quite an assumption...

Yeah, its not exactly chivalrous but I wouldn't insult or admonish anyone in this position.

If you've not experienced such first-hand, perhaps it's a difficult thing to identify with.

 

[DaMummy]

Mega-Man is cuter than Prometheus though

 

[Prometheus]

Mega-Man is cuter than Prometheus though

I don't follow... :blink:


Also... Having thought about it more...


@ZeroOne - I hope you don't mind my asking, but why is it that you took my views to mean that I was seeing things in an all-or-nothing fashion due to bias, and seemingly not any of the others expressed in this thread?

 

[DaMummy]

may be a bit NSFW(youtube safe though) but very much on topic...

https://www.youtube.com/embed/VJU9h-Aw-8I?feature=oembed

 

[Halcyon]

great video post zero one, pretty much sums up my opinion as well.