Svideo Out?

[ShyGuy]

Hey everyone. I just found out about the Pandora today and I'm already psyched. Got my wallet out and I'm waiting for September 30

That said, I have one concern. I do a lot of coding, and my laptop is just...terrible. I realized that aside from the awesome gaming potential, I could hook my Pandora up to a monitor and plug in a USB keyboard and mouse. I figured I could use it almost as a desktop machine for coding, then when I had to get up and go I could bring it with me and have all my files available wherever.

But...S-Video. As far as I can tell the max resolution it can support is 720x576. That's ... not so good as a PC resolution. Say it ain't so?

 

[Chip]

But...S-Video. As far as I can tell the max resolution it can support is 720x576. That's ... not so good as a PC resolution. Say it ain't so?

It is so. At this time, there is no way to get higher quality video (VGA, HDMI, component, etc) off of the Pandora.

It is conceivable that a USB-to-VGA converter box could be made to work, but it is not guaranteed.

 

[ShyGuy]

But...S-Video. As far as I can tell the max resolution it can support is 720x576. That's ... not so good as a PC resolution. Say it ain't so?

It is so. At this time, there is no way to get higher quality video (VGA, HDMI, component, etc) off of the Pandora.

It is conceivable that a USB-to-VGA converter box could be made to work, but it is not guaranteed.

Oh hey, that's an idea I hadn't considered. Time to research.

EDIT: Sad. USB to VGA is weak at best. Most support a max of 1024x768x16, and anything higher requires twice the processing power of the Pandora.

 

[magicman5421]

yeah the omap contains the physical power to output it, but for Pandora, outputting hd quality video wasn't as important as having, for example, usb host or analog nubs... :\ whatever.

EDIT: clarification.

 

[gruso]

EDIT: Sad. USB to VGA is weak at best. Most support a max of 1024x768x16, and anything higher requires twice the processing power of the Pandora.

I think you're expecting a little too much out of a handheld. While 1024x768 might be archaic compared to today's desktop displays, being able to output that from Pandora would be great.

Here's a recent thread on the topic:

http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showtopic=43938

 

[ShyGuy]

Ah, please don't misunderstand. I freaking love the device and I don't even own it yet. If I have to settle for 1024x768 (or even lower), I'm cool with that.

Doom 3 output at 640x480, and it was gorgeous. Anything is possible

 

[Brockway]

Ah, please don't misunderstand. I freaking love the device and I don't even own it yet. If I have to settle for 1024x768 (or even lower), I'm cool with that.

Doom 3 output at 640x480, and it was gorgeous. Anything is possible

I'm totally buying one of these as a portable computer. All the gaming and emulator stuff is secondary to having something this open with this much power and battery life. This will be an awesome upgrade from my N800.

Kinda sucks about needing a usb adapter for hd resolutions though, it was dang impressive watching the beagle board running Ubuntu in the youtube vids. There has to be a way to get it to work like that, right? May need some soldering and exacto knifing, but I'm sure there'll be people who'll get it to work.

Speaking of OS's, how will mouse controls work? I guess touch screen of course, but will the right joystick default to mouselook?

*Edit Been staring at the beagle board and pandora board for a while, looks like the dvi-d connector on the beagle was changed on the pandora for the display. It should be just a ribbon going out of there to the lcd, I wonder if its possible to hijack the display from there to get HD external output. Dunno what kind of connector you would be able to use though since there was no room to keep the beagle boards dvi-d/hdmi connector.

 

[ShyGuy]

Yeah, I figured the DVI was to be removed for release units. Damn shame, but really I can't blame them for not keeping it (first and foremost, it's a handheld).

I'm ticking on a possible low-resolution-friendly interface. Don't have much yet...but really, there are interfaces that look quite amazing at lower resolutions, especially these days. The Wii is a great inspiration, and particularly games that run on it (Super Smash Bros Brawl has a gorgeous GUI).

Little creativity and antialiasing can go a long way.

 

[Soulkiller]

Pandora isn't a spin off of the beagle board. Their was never a decision to remove DVI since it was never there in the first place. Do not confuse Pandora with the Beagle board. Their simply two different projects running the same processor.

 

[ShyGuy]

Pandora isn't a spin off of the beagle board. Their was never a decision to remove DVI since it was never there in the first place. Do not confuse Pandora with the Beagle board. Their simply two different projects running the same processor.

Ah, excuse me. I was linked to a YouTube video suggesting it was for the Pandora, but apparently that was incorrect

 

[JayFoxRox]

I m still hoping that there is a way to output pixel perfect resolutions later (if possible, for VGA or something my VGA Box can translate to a good looking picture which is not too blurry).
USB adapters won't really work because they take too much processing time on the Pandora itself and they are still very slow (you won't get HD Videos or anything similar to run).
However, seeing that the OMAP has the ability to output HD, I still have some hopes for HD out via hardware changes (or maybe even by using the original plug if the video plug is a raw connection to the OMAP)

Personally, I think that the output of HD was completly underestimated when the project was started. You see more and more people requesting it, and with the "new" netbooks some people even start replacing their desktop with low-end portable hardware because its just more flexible. I m also one of those who is thinking about buying a netbook instead of the Pandora these days for that reason.
Ofcourse I know that the Pandora was not made for use as a desktop pc - but I would still love the ability, because the hardware could offer it.

 

[cosurgi]

My current (old) HP nx9005 laptop (3kg weight) has resolution of 1024x768x16 and I'm using it on the go for coding. So I think that such resolution is OK.

Now tell me the details of getting this resolution with USB-VGA to work on Pandora I know that we will need a graphics driver. Where to buy this adapter? Anything else?

 

[benjymous]

If you've already got a regular desktop PC, you could run an X server on that, and retarget all the pandora apps to display their windows on the PC's monitor. That way all your apps, code, data, etc will be living on the pandora, but you can take advantage of a larger PC monitor

 

[JayFoxRox]

benjymous: yes, ofcourse you can, but I would like to replace my PC with the Pandora - I don't need a fast PC anyway, so why on earth would I want to run my pandora and my pc at once? I could just use my desktop PC then. However, if the Pandora supported HD output, I would just hook it up to my usb keyboard / mouse and the monitor and I would be ready to work. This would also be alot more handy if you go to a friend for example: Just take the display adapter and the pandora with you - thats it!

 

[ShyGuy]

Regarding the USB -> VGA adapter, as JayFoxRox said I doubt it'd work. The ones I've looked at couldn't output video reliably (stuttering/desyncing), and that was on actual PCs with more processing power.

If you want a link anyway, this looks kind of useful (Linux). Boasts 1280x1024@32, but naturally that would probably not be possible on the Pandora. There are two fundamental problems I see with these adapters:

1) They don't simply copy what you're seeing and send it out to a display device; they function essentially as a second graphics device on your system. Unfortunately, they serve only a limited purpose, usually for basic utilities like email, word processing etc. Watching video, playing games or anything requiring OpenGL ES/SDL is out of the question.

2) USB 2.0 limitations. I don't know the spec myself, but only so much data can travel down the wire at once before it reaches the adapter. This could be compressed and decompressed before being reformatted, but as I understand it no adapters do this currently - they only have a very limited install base afterall.

My take? It's simply not a great solution. Maybe Pandora 2 (???) will have proper VGA/DVI out, but for now I suggest using a decent scaling VGA box at ~800x600.

EDIT: For the record I'm planning on using a scaled-down desktop manager with mine for desktop apps, until I can work something else out. I already use XFCE on a daily basis, so with some tweaks I imagine it won't be a huge adjustment. Aside from that, I'm already very proficient coding with just a keyboard (hate moving my hand to the mouse), so I'm playing with the idea of just using a virtual terminal when I'm not gaming

Great thing about this being open is we can shape it to fit our (peculiar) situations!

 

[Chip]

Personally, I think that the output of HD was completly underestimated when the project was started.

It was never really an option. All the answers you need are here.

 

[JayFoxRox]

Personally, I think that the output of HD was completly underestimated when the project was started.

It was never really an option. All the answers you need are here.

Thats why I said that it was underestimated

MWeson made good points tho. But he is comparing this device to a phone for example: this is as wrong as comparing it to the DS or the PSP because you won't have lots of applications with lots of text running on your phone which makes a huge screen unnecessary (until you want to watch HD videos).
But yeh I understand the reasons and I think I have to live with the facts for now Looks like I will end up with upscaling the S-Video to 1280x1024 for games. I still have the xbox and my pc for the other stuff until I get a netbook then.

 

[emil10001]

I'm kind of curious as to what the S-Video will actually be able to push. According to wikipedia, the max is 700x486 NTSC (or 700x576 PAL). Will we be able to push that aspect ratio? or only a 4:3 ratio? And I assume all interlaced, right?

Looks like the beagleboard can do widescreen over s-video:
http://flickr.com/photos/rspanton/2822317468/

Unless that's stretched, no real way to tell. I can't really find much documentation on the supported resolution on their S-Video output. And I bricked mine last night. =)

 

[ShyGuy]

S-video is always interlaced as far as I know. Aside from that, no true widescreen resolution can be done with NTSC. There's a possibility we'll see anamorphic widescreen (shrunk and re-stretched)...but...

 

[TaG]

Personally, I think that the output of HD was completly underestimated when the project was started.
It was never really an option. All the answers you need are here.Thats why I said that it was underestimated

MWeson made good points tho. But he is comparing this device to a phone for example: this is as wrong as comparing it to the DS or the PSP because you won't have lots of applications with lots of text running on your phone which makes a huge screen unnecessary (until you want to watch HD videos).
But yeh I understand the reasons and I think I have to live with the facts for now Looks like I will end up with upscaling the S-Video to 1280x1024 for games. I still have the xbox and my pc for the other stuff until I get a netbook then.
I don't think it was underestimated - that was the design, it fitted what people wanted. It started as the next step from the GP2X, ie a handheld gaming device, and the potential customers didn't want the price being any higher. There are many on this forum believe that it is over priced for a gaming handheld.

Don't get me wrong, I would love HDMI/DVI, and it is one reason I might get a BeagleBoard next year. But with every handheld you have to set boundaries.