Standardized Controls


Well there we are then... we just need to propose refinement of what the Pandora button actually does...

In the context of Xfce I'd like to see this setup as a meta key or a super key or whatever it is linux calls the "windows" modifier key... I know there's a post somewhere about here how to set it up that way which I'll be seeking out once I get my Pandora back, but as one of the "pandora as mini computer" crowd this would be (to me) the most obvious default mapping, which could then be overloaded within minimenu or emulators (much as many games map controls to the Ctrl and Alt keys) for whatever function is most logical.


- Neelix
 
I definiatly would be down for a "minimize focused app" ombo such as pandora+d, just yesterday i was testing an app im making, and edited out the way to quit the app, becaue it was full screen i had no choice but to hard reset my pandora.
 
I definiatly would be down for a "minimize focused app" ombo such as pandora+d, just yesterday i was testing an app im making, and edited out the way to quit the app, becaue it was full screen i had no choice but to hard reset my pandora.
Hold down the Pandora button for 4 seconds and then release. It brings you back to the desktop and pops up a kill dialog. I have been using this as a clever hack to get to the desktop for task switching, but it would really be better to have a dedicated "Minimize" key combo and "kill" key combo.
 
@ Foxblock, thanks for raising this again, it would be of huge benefit to the Pandora community if we could propose some standard method for doing things like exiting an application etc.


I did propose something similar on the old boards which seemed to generate a largely positive response :


Proposal for Pandora Standards.


Proposal for standard way to exit an application.


An overview of the method proposed for setting standards :


1) An agreed method on how to propose standards - My suggestion is that proposed standards are posted on this forum with the post title being 'Standard Proposal - Brief description of proposed standard' such as 'Standard Proposal - Exit Application'


2) A method for debating then deciding on a particular standard - How about debate and counter suggestions on the standard proposal thread then a poll in a new thread based upon the proposal thread, this could be posted as 'Standard Poll - Exit Application'. I'd also be fine with an 'expert committee' having the final say based on the poll & debate.


3) A place to record agreed standards - The Wiki would seem a logical place for this.
 
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I definiatly would be down for a "minimize focused app" ombo such as pandora+d, just yesterday i was testing an app im making, and edited out the way to quit the app, becaue it was full screen i had no choice but to hard reset my pandora.
Hold down the Pandora button for 4 seconds and then release. It brings you back to the desktop and pops up a kill dialog. I have been using this as a clever hack to get to the desktop for task switching, but it would really be better to have a dedicated "Minimize" key combo and "kill" key combo.
It would be a nice Feature, if this also is adjusted in Mini Menu, means, only holding the Pandora Button for 2-4 seconds kill the app and returning to the Minimenu. Currently, an short, accidental push on the Pandora Button kills the app and it can happen pretty fast because alot of apps use Start/Select where the Pandora Button is right underneeth. ^^""
 
Thanks for the links, I knew I saw this one come up in the past somewhere.


Anyway, seeing this strongly suggests the function of the Pandora key should be changed to allow use in programs for a menu (to exit, minimize, suspend, etc. the application).


I like how it can be used to reliably kill an app in minimenu, so I guess that simply should be changed to "hold for X seconds".


I would not miss functionality to bring up the menu in XFCE to be honest as that seems to have some issues from time to time anyway and the button is big enough to be hit with the mouse. The kill window never worked for me in fullscreen applications anyway, but again this being "hold for X seconds" would not interfere with just pressing the button once for an app specific function (which to comply with the standard should bring up an exit-menu).


Then we could just replace Select with the Pandora key and seem to have a pretty solid standard for the time being.
 
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Anyway, seeing this strongly suggests the function of the Pandora key should be changed to allow use in programs for a menu (to exit, minimize, suspend, etc. the application).


I like how it can be used to reliably kill an app in minimenu, so I guess that simply should be changed to "hold for X seconds".
I agree. It would be the more intuitive menu button and the hold to terminate behaviour is also common on other devices (e.g. PCs).

I would not miss functionality to bring up the menu in XFCE to be honest as that seems to have some issues from time to time anyway and the button is big enough to be hit with the mouse.
I don't see why it should be removed. If a single press defaults to the applications built-in menu then it would still function as expected from a bare XFCE desktop.


Would it behave like super (windows key) or menu? I personally have a preference for super.
 
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I don't see why it should be removed. If a single press defaults to the applications built-in menu then it would still function as expected from a bare XFCE desktop.


Would it behave like super (windows key) or menu? I personally have a preference for super.
Well as currently it always pops up the XFCE menu even if you are in a windowed application, so those could not use it as a button to open a built-in menu, which I would prefer for consistencies sake (same function in full-screen apps and windowed ones - if it behaves like the "windows key" functionality of the button would change if you switch a program from full-screen to windowed mode, which seems very irritating).


Imo it should be changed to only open the menu if the desktop has focus, if that's possible.
 
Well as currently it always pops up the XFCE menu even if you are in a windowed application, so those could not use it as a button to open a built-in menu, which I would prefer for consistencies sake
It does that through user script hackery. When you push and release the Pandora key it calls a script with the number of seconds the key was pressed down for: more than 4 seconds and it pops up the kill dialog; less than 4 seconds and it runs the command that is supposed to make the menu pop up. The menu popping up thing doesn't always work.


You make a good argument though, about consistency between fullscreen and desktop applications. Maybe the Pandora key should never be used by an application, it should always be handled by the desktop in a consistent way, just like the Windows/super key on a desktop: a key that the application can't even bind against, one that always always gets handled by the OS. That way, no matter what happens to the program, you can be guaranteed that hitting the Pandora button (combinations) will do something, so long as the desktop is still functioning.
 
Maybe the Pandora key should never be used by an application, it should always be handled by the desktop in a consistent way, just like the Windows/super key on a desktop: a key that the application can't even bind against, one that always always gets handled by the OS. That way, no matter what happens to the program, you can be guaranteed that hitting the Pandora button (combinations) will do something, so long as the desktop is still functioning.
I am in favour of this. Consider PS3, XBox, and Wii controllers; each has one central button that always brings up the system menu, entirely independent of the application running it. So I think the Pandora button should access Pandora functions; other buttons should be used for accessing application-specific functions.
 
Do we actually need to have a dedicated exit button aside from Fn+Q at all? If start is already the default key to open a game menu and space the default to open the emulator menu, then it is quite reasonable to assume that those menus will contain a quit option.
 
Sometimes programs stop responding. It's good to have some key handled by the OS to regain some control.
 
Having only read the first few posts I have this to say.


I completely agree with Wiz someone just needs to say this, this and this and get it over with. But still have the options of for the user underneath.


As with distribution or letting this dev's know, this is what we chose, this makes sense please implement it if you can. A file should be distributed with the official toolchain that tells the devs this is the guide line to use. I think this should also go for the standard emulator layout (cough) psxrearmed (cough)
 
Sometimes programs stop responding. It's good to have some key handled by the OS to regain some control.
Yes, but that is what the Pandora kill-switch is for. Fn+Q is not kill functionality, is it?
nope, thats just ESC, which is must need to be programmed into each application, because like i said when i was testing my fullscreen app, there was i time where i had removed the ability to select things in the menu, leaving me no escape :p also for some reason i couldn't call the force kill menu either, forcing me to hard reset my pandora. Times like that are why i support a true force kill combo, or at least force minimize.
 
You make a good argument though, about consistency between fullscreen and desktop applications. Maybe the Pandora key should never be used by an application, it should always be handled by the desktop in a consistent way, just like the Windows/super key on a desktop: a key that the application can't even bind against, one that always always gets handled by the OS. That way, no matter what happens to the program, you can be guaranteed that hitting the Pandora button (combinations) will do something, so long as the desktop is still functioning.
I disagree, this consistency is only really noticeable for the OS developer. For the end user the Pandora key will be used to exit an application - gracefully (through an in-game menu) or forced (hold for X seconds).


The obvious drawback is that as long as it's not integrated in most apps the proposed behaviour is not consistent.


Currently the kill-overlay does not work for fullscreen apps so it's kinda useless, just like the Windows key when you are in a game (well it will bring you back to the desktop in most cases, but it's hit more accidentally than intentional and seldom used in its purpose).


Though thinking about it the past days I have come to the conclusion that the Fn+Q combo to exit (gracefully, yet immediate or with a single prompt) and the Start button to open up a menu (which probably should provide an exit option at any point) should be enough to cover this part.


The Select or Pandora button would just be provided as an alternative to Fn+Q as that combo is immediately visible.

Do we actually need to have a dedicated exit button aside from Fn+Q at all? If start is already the default key to open a game menu and space the default to open the emulator menu, then it is quite reasonable to assume that those menus will contain a quit option.
Yes I have to come the conclusion that this should suffice as long as the standard encourages to provide a menu (brought up by pressing Start) with a quit option and the Fn+Q combo at any point. The former is probably obvious to any new user, while the latter might need to be discovered first, but then will be rather obvious, too.


The Pandora button then stays in functionality as it currently is, but I propose the kill menu (which is activated by holding the button for a few seconds) is re-designed to work like an overlay menu from current console generations (think pressing the big X button on an X-Box controller, the home button on the Wii or the PS button on a PS3).


Pushing and holding the button for a few seconds should then bring up a menu (which is ensured to pop-up in front of the current running application), pause any running application (which might not be possible(?)) and show options to kill the currently active application, return to the desktop, turn off the Pandora, or open a terminal in the foreground.
 
The Pandora button then stays in functionality as it currently is, but I propose the kill menu (which is activated by holding the button for a few seconds) is re-designed to work like an overlay menu from current console generations (think pressing the big X button on an X-Box controller, the home button on the Wii or the PS button on a PS3).
That sounds like a good idea. Not sure how difficult it is to realize. Some applications are rather aggressively maintaining full-screen mode.

Pushing and holding the button for a few seconds should then bring up a menu (which is ensured to pop-up in front of the current running application), pause any running application (which might not be possible(?)) and show options to kill the currently active application, return to the desktop, turn off the Pandora, or open a terminal in the foreground.
Sounds tricky to set up. The Pandora button press would have to be handled by both the application and the OS, or the application should be able to receive some universal pause signal.
 
Pushing and holding the button for a few seconds should then bring up a menu (which is ensured to pop-up in front of the current running application), pause any running application (which might not be possible(?)) and show options to kill the currently active application, return to the desktop, turn off the Pandora, or open a terminal in the foreground.
Sounds tricky to set up. The Pandora button press would have to be handled by both the application and the OS, or the application should be able to receive some universal pause signal.
Yeah pausing should be handled by the OS hence why I said I don't know whether it's easily possible to arbitrarily suspend a thread.


The Pandora button, as WizardStan suggested, should be exclusively handled by the OS and not touched by any application (except launchers running as an alternate OS like minimenu or Panorama in the future).
 
Sounds tricky to set up. The Pandora button press would have to be handled by both the application and the OS, or the application should be able to receive some universal pause signal.
They already do. In the *nix world, just kill -SIGSTOP and kill -SIGCONT. I'm pretty sure this is already happening when you put the Pandora into "sleep" mode: the sleep script greps through the list of running processes and SIGSTOPs all the ones that are started via PND.


Press the Pandora button, SIGSTOP the focused application, start a new application that writes directly to the framebuffer, grab a copy of the framebuffer first, display your options, do the deed. You take a copy of the framebuffer so it can be restored if the user chooses to resume, just in case the application doesn't do a full window refresh often.


At least in theory, anyway. My Pandora is currently totally out of commission and I've no way to test.
 
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