Sliding Keyboard?

[indrema]

I'm not requesting it, (I know it's patented), but how does that work? Do you really have to pay someone if you have the alphabet resting on a mechanism that allows it to be hidden from view? God, that sure is vague! Does anyone else feel this way?

 

[bigtruck]

It may be vague, but when the first person thought of it, it was quite a novel idea. Now, of course, it seems obvious, but that's the way patents work. I'll bet at some point the keyboard in general was patented. IANAL or economist or anything, but I think the whole patent system needs to be redone, as it is plagued with problems (patent trolls, for example). It seems to be hindering technological advancements more than encouraging them.

Personally, I don't really care all that much about the sliding keyboard. I just wish the screen could rotate like my tablet PC, but unfortunately that is also patented.

 

[indrema]

It still seems like patenting the idea of, say, doors on cars. I wanted a sliding keyboard; & not putting it in, to keep costs down, was the right thing to do. So I guess I'm just venting.

 

[Eolair]

IMO, you shouldn't be able to patent the general idea of a sliding keyboard, only a specific mechanism to one. Because someone else might come up with another solution to a sliding keyboard and get another patent for that invention. That's how patents should work; to protect inventions, but not hinder new ones.

However, with U.S patents you apparently don't need an invention anymore. It seems like you can pretty much patent any vague concept or idea as long as you're the first one to do it.

I'm amazed that the clamshell isn't patented by Nintendo. After all it's not less of a novel idea than a sliding keyboard...

 

[Chip]

With enough research, you could come up with a hideaway keypad that is not covered by any patents, and it would stand up in court. The really hard part is making it stand up in court. We've gone over this before, so I'm not going to re-explain why a sliding keyboard is not worth the trouble. Just trust me that it isn't.

 

[craigix]

The clamshell is just a laptop, the laptop patent has expired.

Also the PC engine portable (I forget its name) was a clamshell design way before the SP.

 

[Sphinxter]

The patent works much like a minefield.

 

[Svartalf]

IMO, you shouldn't be able to patent the general idea of a sliding keyboard, only a specific mechanism to one. Because someone else might come up with another solution to a sliding keyboard and get another patent for that invention. That's how patents should work; to protect inventions, but not hinder new ones.

The thing is, the technique for making that slide down keyboard work as long as the ones being done will, is innovative- and is patented.

And this is more about not having to defend yourself than anything else. You see, you can probably come up with a non-infringing slide down keyboard or flip-around screen. The rub is in proving you're non-infringing; there is a LOT of money in litigation that would have to be warchested; money that CraigX and Co. flatly don't have. You have something on the order of 10-15 million burning in your pocket? Great! You can have that nifty slide-down (though, I would ask that if you've got that kind of money to help bankroll a few good commercial Linux/Pandora titles instead... )

QUOTE

However, with U.S patents you apparently don't need an invention anymore. It seems like you can pretty much patent any vague concept or idea as long as you're the first one to do it.



Heh... Tell that to the USPTO on MY applications- I'm already in the rebuttal stage on one of them; and it's not always as simple as you'd think.

We've gone over this before, so I'm not going to re-explain why a sliding keyboard is not worth the trouble. Just trust me that it isn't.



Unfortunately, Chip, we're probably going to keep fielding these threads for some time to come. People aren't cognizant of the way things are and have been for some time now. They only care for "shiny" and they go, "Oooh...shiny", never once realizing that there's always a price for some of this stuff.

The patent works much like a minefield.

Apt. Just apt... Moreover, the people backing this little gem we're all watching the making of don't want to step on any of those mines either...

 

[nubie]

The thing I don't get is that I like a clamshell, the DS is a clamshell, the GBA SP is a clamshell. Why can't it just be a clamshell?

Frankly I think that the sliding keyboard thing would cheapen this and make it look stupid. (I am weird and there is no accounting for taste, thankfully many here love the current setup as well, so phooey.)

Ever consider that if you want to set it down and watch a video or listen to some music this is going to kick the ass of other portables? It has a proper screen, no need for a separate stand!

 

[gruso]

^ Right on. My Pandora will spend a lot of time on the bench, sitting open like a laptop. Not leaning up against something, or screaming for a $100+ cradle.

 

[Prophet]

^ Right on. My Pandora will spend a lot of time on the bench, sitting open like a laptop. Not leaning up against something, or screaming for a $100+ cradle.

Exactly!

I've had many frustrating moments in the past trying to prop my PocketPC, Zodiac or PSP up against something to watch a movie during lunch or whatnot. Clamshell designs solve that.

 

[mannowhere]

Can't help but wonder if the Amiga 1000's (the original model) keyboard "garage" could be used as "prior art" to bust the "sliding/hidden keyboard" patent. I know it's different, but if the patent is written around the idea of hiding the keyboard until it's needed then I'd hope it could be invalidated.

Yeah, yeah, I know it's not worth the cost to pursue, but I can dream...

 

[Svartalf]

Can't help but wonder if the Amiga 1000's (the original model) keyboard "garage" could be used as "prior art" to bust the "sliding/hidden keyboard" patent. I know it's different, but if the patent is written around the idea of hiding the keyboard until it's needed then I'd hope it could be invalidated.

Yeah, yeah, I know it's not worth the cost to pursue, but I can dream...

/me sighs...

Why even go there? Because it "looks cool"? It's less useful than one would think. The N810 is a good litmus test for it's usefulness. It's only marginally better than the tap interface that's available on OS2007.

You know, Chip, I'm beginning to see where your frustration is coming from here...

 

[mannowhere]

Why even go there? Because it "looks cool"? It's less useful than one would think. The N810 is a good litmus test for it's usefulness. It's only marginally better than the tap interface that's available on OS2007.

Simply because large hands bring the possibility (read: probability) of palms hitting the keys during heavy game play. On such a small device , this doesn't seem like an unimportant consideration to me. Putting my thumbs on the analog pads seems almost certain to cause this issue to arise.

I am most certainly one of the last people to give a crap about "looking cool" - it's all about the functionality. Personally, I'd love to have seen the design be a bit wider to avoid a few of the complications brought by trying to cram everything in, but then the keyboard probably wouldn't be as easily reached by thumbs (unless they went with one of those "split keyboard" layouts which are probably also patent-encumbered - I imagine that this one will be about as *ahem* easy to use as the slide-out Zaurus SL5500's keyboard was). All things considered, it's a wonderful design and the usual "can't please all the people all the time" proverb applies here. Doesn't mean I don't wish things were different.

I know a lot of people have repeatedly complained about wanting this, that, or another "minor change" to the design and thus those working on Pandora are tired of hearing about it, so I'll not take personal offense to your comments. My initial comment was just expressing a thought about invalidating the aforementioned patent. I most certainly was not trying to pressure the devs to change the physical design (and if I were, I can assure you it wouldn't be the keyboard that'd be my first concern) - particularly at this late stage of the game, that'd be ridiculous. I thought the last line would have made it clear that I was speaking only hypothetically.


Now. Back to my initial question - just for the sake of curiosity, mind you - does anyone think the Amiga's "keyboard garage" can be applied to invalidate the "hidden keyboard" patent?

 

[Chip]

Simply because large hands bring the possibility (read: probability) of palms hitting the keys during heavy game play. On such a small device , this doesn't seem like an unimportant consideration to me. Putting my thumbs on the analog pads seems almost certain to cause this issue to arise.

It's not an issue.

Now. Back to my initial question - just for the sake of curiosity, mind you - does anyone think the Amiga's "keyboard garage" can be applied to invalidate the "hidden keyboard" patent?

There are dozens of patents for sliding, folding, rotating, and "hiding" keypads on electronic handheld devices. You could come up with something that would technically skirt around them or you could try to invalidate one with prior art, but you're still talking about a multi-million dollar court battle either way. Please go back up a couple posts and read the thread I linked to (particularly my post) - It's still true.

 

[sindbad]

No slide out keyboard device I've ever used was comfortable to type on. A clamshell design on a device this small encourages a 'holding book in hand from the sides' position (which is naturally comfortable), while at the same time having the screen a bit angled so you don't have to lean over the device or lose the comfortable position of your hands to see it properly.

 

[atomicthumbs]

Hmm.

Idea for a name of my game:

SECRET COMMANDO: THE SECRET OF THE HIDDEN ALPHABET