Sleep Mode, Diagnostic/maint. Menu, Boot Off Usb?

[MWeston]

Saving to SD was just an option for what could be done. It doesn't mean you are forced to do so. The first release is likely to work like the PSP with the option to force the power button to just completely shutdown if that is what you want.

 

[Tobriand]

Any chance the number-of-seconds-then-die style turning off could be handled at a bios level? I know both my laptop and my phone are right nuissances when they crash; the only way to turn them off is to yank the battery and be darn sure they're not plugged in. Having something done as a bios call after so many seconds (rather than an OS call) might alleviate this.

Or, alternatively, set up a small capacitor to charge when the button is held. When the capicitor discharges, this is used as a hardware indicator that the device should switch off *now*. Not sure of the associated circuitry, but it seems like it should be doable (and hopefully very cheaply!)

 

[MWeston]

Actually, yes. Extra logic circuitry has been designed into the unit to make it easy to reset or completely power down Pandora hard if the software completely locks up. This is done through a key combination (for a hardware reset) or by holding the power button for a much longer time than normal (which overrides anything the software thinks it's going to do with the button) and cycles or disables all the power supplies.

To reiterate, these features are completely independent of any code running on the processor and function at a level even lower than bios (hardware) since that is also code that could fail. There will never be a reason to yank the battery unless it is old and tired or you want to pack the system away for storage. This is all part of the bulletproof design made for even the worst hackers.

 

[Squidge]

Any chance the number-of-seconds-then-die style turning off could be handled at a bios level? I know both my laptop and my phone are right nuissances when they crash; the only way to turn them off is to yank the battery and be darn sure they're not plugged in. Having something done as a bios call after so many seconds (rather than an OS call) might alleviate this.

I'm curious about the make and model of your laptop. Every one I've used, if you hold the power button down for 5 seconds or so, it forces an instant power-off regardless of what software is running (or not in the case of a full crash). I've never had to remove the battery from a laptop.

Now a phone, yes, I've had to do that, but thats only because it was running a Microsoft operating system

 

[danboid]

MWeston:

Thanks for filling us in on all these power issues etc. - its sounding damn fine indeed - even 'boot off serial' fcs!

I think a lot of people don't realise just how usable and powerful Linux/X11 (using the ROX/matchbox DE for example) will be in only 128MB RAM and a 600/800Mhz ARM but with some pretty good graphics acceleration. X11 really is perfectly usable for most stuff on the Zaurus, and fast too- as fast as running off a CF gets anyway. Yes, the Z has a few more keys on its keyboard and a (CF) internal HD but the pandora specs are WAY better than the best Z. I was playing Metal Slug 2 w/ a USB pad on my Z only a couple of days ago- its full speed with sound without any overclocking.

Looking forward to seeing the new keyboard layout and design!

 

[Javacat]

Will it be possible (as an option) to make the device go to sleep if the screen is closed? If so, would it be possible to make it so that when the device is closed the screen turns off, and if it's not reopened for a specified amount of time (say 30 seconds) the device goes into sleep mode?

 

[Squidge]

Will it be possible (as an option) to make the device go to sleep if the screen is closed? If so, would it be possible to make it so that when the device is closed the screen turns off, and if it's not reopened for a specified amount of time (say 30 seconds) the device goes into sleep mode?

We'd need a switch on the casing (and of course an approriately spare gpio pin), but its possible, yes.

 

[DaveC]

There will never be a reason to yank the battery unless it is old and tired or you want to pack the system away for storage. This is all part of the bulletproof design made for even the worst hackers.

How about if we want to have a spare battery charged so that when the existing one runs flat we can swap it out with a charged one like the PSP can? Otherwise you are down if you are not near the mains. Will we be able to easily get replacement/spare batteries from anywhere for this and swap out? Or is going to be one of those Zodiac type things that once the custom hard-to-get battery dies you bin the whole thing?

 

[atomicthumbs]

Will it be possible (as an option) to make the device go to sleep if the screen is closed? If so, would it be possible to make it so that when the device is closed the screen turns off, and if it's not reopened for a specified amount of time (say 30 seconds) the device goes into sleep mode?

We'd need a switch on the casing (and of course an approriately spare gpio pin), but its possible, yes.


How about two small magnets and a Hall effect sensor? That way, it would stay closed and have a pleasant feel, and there would be no moving parts to break. I know I'm always worried about the little hook that sticks off the top front of my laptop's display.

 

[yannv]

Will it be possible (as an option) to make the device go to sleep if the screen is closed? If so, would it be possible to make it so that when the device is closed the screen turns off, and if it's not reopened for a specified amount of time (say 30 seconds) the device goes into sleep mode?
We'd need a switch on the casing (and of course an approriately spare gpio pin), but its possible, yes.A mechanical switch is common, but a weak point. I think the DS got this fairly neatly solved when they used a Hall effect sensor to detect the proximity of the lid (which holds a magnet). They also have the convention of going to sleep mode when the lid is closed, but some homebrew fails to do this.

 

[MWeston]

Will it be possible (as an option) to make the device go to sleep if the screen is closed? If so, would it be possible to make it so that when the device is closed the screen turns off, and if it's not reopened for a specified amount of time (say 30 seconds) the device goes into sleep mode?

Yes, a hall effect sensor is already part of the design. When the magnet of the speaker in the lid gets close to the sensor in the base, Linux gets an interrupt and based on the configuration set by the user, the kernel will respond accordingly. This can be to go into sleep mode or to just power down all the electronics that can no longer be accessed (such as LCD, analog controls, touch screen). I think mechanical switches is a bad idea as well and requires too much extra consideration in the design. This type of sensor also makes the rotating LCD option more difficult so you can be pretty sure it will stay clamshell.

There will never be a reason to yank the battery unless it is old and tired or you want to pack the system away for storage. This is all part of the bulletproof design made for even the worst hackers.

How about if we want to have a spare battery charged so that when the existing one runs flat we can swap it out with a charged one like the PSP can? Otherwise you are down if you are not near the mains. Will we be able to easily get replacement/spare batteries from anywhere for this and swap out? Or is going to be one of those Zodiac type things that once the custom hard-to-get battery dies you bin the whole thing?

The battery is removable if you really wanted to change them out. The battery compartment will have a cover held down by a screw (like the DS). One thing to note is that you will have to re-set the clock each time you do this.

 

[fusion_power]

Will it be possible (as an option) to make the device go to sleep if the screen is closed? If so, would it be possible to make it so that when the device is closed the screen turns off, and if it's not reopened for a specified amount of time (say 30 seconds) the device goes into sleep mode?

We'd need a switch on the casing (and of course an approriately spare gpio pin), but its possible, yes.

And if we want to listen Music while Pandora is closed in "pocket Mode"? ^_^

 

[Karel Jansens]

The battery is removable if you really wanted to change them out. The battery compartment will have a cover held down by a screw (like the DS). One thing to note is that you will have to re-set the clock each time you do this.

Is it too late to squeeze in a capacitor? For hot-swapping batteries?

 

[b._.o._.b]

The battery is removable if you really wanted to change them out. The battery compartment will have a cover held down by a screw (like the DS). One thing to note is that you will have to re-set the clock each time you do this.

Bad news. Batteries should be easy changeable without screw or resetting the clock.

 

[Tobriand]

I'm curious about the make and model of your laptop. Every one I've used, if you hold the power button down for 5 seconds or so, it forces an instant power-off regardless of what software is running (or not in the case of a full crash). I've never had to remove the battery from a laptop.

It's an Acer Travelmate 240, and most of the time, it behaves exactly as normal - hold the power button for 5 seconds and it dies.

The problem is that once my OS has taken control of the power button, the bios seems to relinquish it as long as it thinks the OS still is in control of the button. Or something like that. The net result is that, if the screen still looks like a terminal (well, actually, in Linux, even when it looks like a terminal a lot of the time, but I find that not too surprising since most of the drivers for Linux get loaded before X, afaik - I'm a newbie to it, though), and I hold the button, it'll die. And if the OS is working, and I hold the button, it'll die.

But it the OS stops responding, then so does the power button; I usually give up after about 20 seconds or so and just yank the battery. It's most annoying, but hey.

Either way, glad to hear it won't be an issue with Pandora

 

[MWeston]

The battery is removable if you really wanted to change them out. The battery compartment will have a cover held down by a screw (like the DS). One thing to note is that you will have to re-set the clock each time you do this.

Bad news. Batteries should be easy changeable without screw or resetting the clock.

Yeah if they are AA's. Wow, I think the expression "you can't please everyone" can be changed to "you can't please anyone!".

 

[Clad]

Well, I'm pleased. As you said, it's like the NDS, and most laptop, do. And I never had any problem with those.

 

[b._.o._.b]

Bad news. Batteries should be easy changeable without screw or resetting the clock.

Yeah if they are AA's. Wow, I think the expression "you can't please everyone" can be changed to "you can't please anyone!".


Yep, guess you are right, there are just too many variables
Don't worry, it doesn't have to be perfect. This just doesn't sound good to me, isn't this avoidable without too much hassle?

 

[Squidge]

And if we want to listen Music while Pandora is closed in "pocket Mode"? ^_^

Configurable You choose wait to shutdown when the case is closed.

MWeston: Nice! I didn't know you already though about a HES!

Maybe we could do like a PDA - have a coin cell as a backup battery which keeps the unit in sleep mode for a few minutes when the battery is removed?

 

[Karel Jansens]

Maybe we could do like a PDA - have a coin cell as a backup battery which keeps the unit in sleep mode for a few minutes when the battery is removed?

You can do that with a capacitor (which is what I asked about higher up in the thread), and no need to worry about the state of the backup battery.