Side Perspective Shooter


vampiric05

Still Fresh
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
6
Age
36
Location
Haverfordwest, Wales
I'll start off by clearing something up that most people will notice straight away.
Yes, this is my first post, and therefore I'm a newb, but I have been lurking for months now seeing where things are going.

Right, now for the business part of things so to speak.
For a while now I've been coming up with ideas for a game that I think would suit the Panda very well.
It's a Side on Team Based Shooter, for those of you that know of Soldat, you'll have a fairly good idea of where i'm coming from.

What I've got in my head is 3D moving on a 2d plane, similar in that way to Crash Commando recently released on the PS3, however, obviously with nowhere near that kind of visual prowess.

Basis for the gameplay is more realistic than in Soldat and Crash Commando, you dont jump 30' into the air, and no rocket boots etc, I'm thinking longer playing area's sectioned off into patches of No-Man's Land and Tactical Possitions
E.g. a patch of farmland, with the Farm House being a Capturable Post, which once captured (say by occupying the building for 20 seconds for instance) becomes mildly barricaded.
This will be repeated a few times over the length of the playing field, with 2 teams, 1 each side of the map, fighting to control the most of the map by the end of the round.


This is what I've got put together, I have other details ironed out already, but don't want to deter people by posting up a wall of text, but will be happy to answer any questions I can.
I'm in the process of starting to draw up some Concept art, and as for Working on the game itself, I'll be the first to admit, I cant code, which is where the request for help comes in, however, I do plan on working on the design side of things.

Please fire away with any questions or interest.
 
Sound's good to me, thanks very much.
I just checked over there now, damn you work quickly :)

I've gotta start getting ready for work now, so there wont be any responses from me for a few hour's, but i'll be back ~10pm when I finish, so I'll answer any questions that might have come up then.

Thanks again
 
I probably won't have time to help with this project, but will be asking about details anyways since I feel like it.

Some things I thought about when I first read your post:
  • You won't be jumping into the air, and no rocket boots? Doesn't this essentially make the game into a one-dimensional game? Doesn't the map possibilities thus become very limited?
  • How will maps be constructed? By using SVG images? By using rasterized maps? Custom map formats?
  • What playing modes will be available? You've already described a domination mode, but should there be more? The most interesting would IMO be CTF, infiltration and 2-team death matches.
  • Multiplayer? POND or TINXL integration?
  • What's the theme of the game? WW2, WW1, Vietnam, sci-fi, medieval?

...etc...
 
Appologies for the belated reply, no problems on details :)

What I meant meant about the jumping was such as with Soldat and such, the player can jump extreme heights, many times that of the character themself.
The ability to jump will be there, but at more realistic heights, for instance onto and over some smaller objects, for example, if you've been using a car as cover, you would be able to jump onto it's bonnet, however not onto the roof of a building in one jump.

I was discussing with a friend earlier who pointed out that if the game was to be played in a 2D manner, it would massively restrict the use of cover as an integral part of the game, and he suggested the possibility of some lateral movement within the game, which is now on the cards, but it wont be extreme, perhaps just a little more depth in the map.

I plan for the game to be 3D, the environment itself will be a 3D environment, with three dimensional objects and characters therefore I believe that to be Rasterized correct?

As for game modes, the most focus would be put towards the "domination" mode, IMO it suit's the tactical feel the game will have most, but yes, there will also be the obligatory CTF and DM modes

Theme wise, there will not be any specific theme, there will be a range of weapon sets, attire and maps, covering from WW2 - present day, that way, when starting a game, the player who is hosting the match, can choose for instance WW2 weapon set/class system and disable certain weapons if they so desire, for instance, turning off the bazooka for that match.
Although BOT's may be present (although I dont know how likely that is yet), multi player will be the most prominent part of the game, although originally my plan was a simple lobby system that would list matches, number of player's in the match and time left etc, looking at TINXL now you've brought it to my attention, would seemingly be a far better option.
From what I understood when reading it, it will be able to launch games to join a friend? (if i read correctly?)

I hope all this helps...open to any more questions :)

Appologies for any major typo's or garbled sentences or just plain idiocy by the way, it's 1:30am and I need sleep :p

ShatPank
 
More questions/statements (well, you asked for it):
  • Lateral movement is what makes Soldat fun to play for very many people, so this really has to be a part of the game. It would be very difficult to make this in a realistic manner, however. Things such as elevators are inefficient, and since the "game plane" itself is 2D, stairwells are plain impossible to have. I had thought of maybe "one-way platforms", à la Super Mario, so that you can jump up from under a platform, essentially go through it, and then land on it, even though the game plane is 2D. Would this make sense?
  • The environment will be 3D, but the player will only be able to move in 2D, I see... This would require mesh-based levels, would it not? Have you looked at how Soldat maps are built? They consist of triangles that serve as collision or something. If they do (I can't recall whether they really do or not), it would be very easy to build a similar format, just allowing people to attach 3D, non-collision meshes wherever they want.
  • TINXL, or the in theory better-suited Pandora POND system will allow a developer to have a central lobby system (think XFire + GameSpy, just as a library instead, not a standalone app, and with far more extensibility + flexibility). This isn't really important to think about this early in your project, however (I just mentioned it in case you had had any deep thoughts).
  • Which programming language will this be made in? Think about that you'll want the community to be able to help as much as possible. If you say C++ (which I think you would), consider the fact that no one really likes working with C++, something I've noticed when working with the SpaceRTS project. And since this project won't need any heavy physics (2D physics aren't processor intensive at all, most of the time) you have the possibility of picking a low-performance, "fun" language, thus allowing more people to help with the project. Any thoughts about this? (question also directed at other forum members)
 
[*]Lateral movement is what makes Soldat fun to play for very many people, so this really has to be a part of the game. It would be very difficult to make this in a realistic manner, however. Things such as elevators are inefficient, and since the "game plane" itself is 2D, stairwells are plain impossible to have. I had thought of maybe "one-way platforms", à la Super Mario, so that you can jump up from under a platform, essentially go through it, and then land on it, even though the game plane is 2D. Would this make sense?

Very much what was also discussed with my friend, I attempted to explain his suggestion to over come this, but with being tired, did not really do it to well :p
What he suggested was whilst still remaining a side scrolling view, to add basic 3D movement, in that the map area would be slightly deeper (for instance, as opposed to just a pavement, it would become a road and a pavement, and the ability to move in the depth of the map, between pavement and road) much like so http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/vampiric05/depthexample.jpg
This is what I meant by lateral movement, but thinking back on it, wasnt the best description.

This aproach would also then allow for multiple elevations within a level, for instance, part of the map having a stairway, down or upto another surface, whilst another continues straight on, if this makes sense?


The environment will be 3D, but the player will only be able to move in 2D, I see... This would require mesh-based levels, would it not? Have you looked at how Soldat maps are built? They consist of triangles that serve as collision or something. If they do (I can't recall whether they really do or not), it would be very easy to build a similar format, just allowing people to attach 3D, non-collision meshes wherever they want.

Yes, the map would be mesh-based, a fully 3D environment, Soldat's environments are based on triangles with collision detection as far as I'm aware.
My thinking is that a pre-existing engine may be a good idea, a Quake based engine I would imagine would be of benefit for coding?
Level creation should also be fairly trouble free then as GTKRadiant is freely available.

As for physics, some basic physics for the character's would be required, but nothing spectacular such as rag doll effects, they look pretty but would require a lot of processing speed, and physic's for object's and such I would expect to be "pre-baked" essentially just triggerd animations.



As for networking and such, I hadnt got so far as to fully working out absolute requirements, I have however now looked at the POND thread to, and it also sound's very good, although I dont know if it's still active, seem's to have been a bit quite there update wise, shall look at that hurdle when it comes though, hopefully shall have some basic concept art up soon to give a better idea of plan's in my head to.

ShatPank
 
Hmm, sorry, don't liek the idea of what you call "lateral movement" at all... It would create the need for real 3D physics (I don't mean for rag dolls and such, but for actual bullet collision and jumping physics) which makes the CPU power required go O(n³) instead of O(n²) for lazy polygon-to-polygon tests; in other words an insane amount of extra calculations is required. Also, how would you navigate with such an environment? Remember that you have to have at least the following functions: move left, right, "inwards", "outwards", jump, shoot, move aim, switch weapons, make things easily accessible such as throw grenade, duck or drop flag. Good luck covering all of that with the Pandora controls, at least if you use an analog for aiming (which I think would be necessary).

Oh, some other options that I didn't think about before would of course be ladders, or Castlevania-style stairwells. There are 2D options available for what you need :p
 
This sounds like a great project, also perfect for the pandora.
However I also have to add opinion:
  • I don't like the idea of that 2D-3D movement, too. I recently played Little big Planet on a friends PS3, it was fun, but that kind of movement always confused me whilst not adding that much more complexity or depth (not in the graphical meaning) to the game. However, I can imagine this being different in a Shooter where you could use it for cover. It all depends on the implementation, then again it was pretty well implemented in LBP...
  • Imo, the Arcade feeling of Soldat (movement, etc.) is what makes it so much fun. I can't imagine a more realistic version of this or I have a bit of fear this could end up being boring, because it takes some time to get to the enemy and then you dead fast, because you die after one hit (which would be realistic)... I think, I would have to try it out, but of course we are not that far yet ;)
Still, my best regards and I hope we see some progress soon ;)

foxblock out
 
Nice idea! I think stairwells are a viable option, they could be implemented like in castlevania, where you can either move past the stairs or go up/down. I also don't think you need any depth-movement. What if cover could be shared (players would not collide with each other)?
 
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