Retrode

[Asiyura]

I just read the newsletter from the Retrode creator where he says that he will do a second batch.


But he seems to be looking for business partners, so I thought that ED and Craigix should contact him.


It would be great to be able to buy Pandora and Retrode from your online shops.


You may even be able to help him to find a factory to build the Retrodes and the adaptors.

 

[second exodous]

I just read the newsletter from the Retrode creator where he says that he will do a second batch.
But he seems to be looking for business partners, so I thought that ED and Craigix should contact him.


It would be great to be able to buy Pandora and Retrode from your online shops.


You may even be able to help him to find a factory to build the Retrodes and the adaptors.

Wow, if this was sold along side the Pandora then the Pandora could be advertised as the legal emulation machine. I wanted one but I waited too long I guess. I hope he finds someone and gets a second batch out, I'd buy.

 

[SOLGarion]

Legality would still be questionable in the USA though, but not in a lot of other countries. I fear the courts will look at using the device as a way to get around DRM, I.e, playing the games without the original hardware. Of course first thy have to care enough to prosecute, which I doubt would happen to the end user. Same idea as ripping a Rom of a game you own, it SHOULD be fair use, and is in countries like Germany, but not in the US if it is a copyrighted work. It's a step closer because it is the original cart, but still getting around a hardware DRM o play them. They have also held devices capable of making back up copies create contributory infringement on the part of the manufacturer an actual infringement by the end user. Definitely a grey area but I think that's how the courts would see it. I don't agree, but there it is. Maybe after a few more cases and years the US will gets it's head outta it's ass, heres hopin.


Edit: Although I am sure Craigix could come up with a much slicker case for the device. Ready for shipment in 2 Months ™.

 

[Asiyura]

I didn't knew that it wasn't legal to make a backup copy of the games you own in US.


In Belgium it's perfectly legal, it's even legal to make a backup copy of music/movies you rented (but it's illegal to rent video games)

Since ED and Craig are in Europe I think they could sell the retrode without any problem.


Maybe for legal reasons (mainly saving their asses from massive damage claims) they could make it impossible for a USA residents to buy the Retrode from their shops.


I know it's not nice, but at least it's safer.

 

[WizardStan]

I didn't knew that it wasn't legal to make a backup copy of the games you own in US.

I don't think it's officially illegal. Prior to the DMCA it would definitely have been legal, but the DMCA made it illegal to circumvent DRM even for stuff that you own that would comply with fair use. So in the US you can make a copy for format shifting fair use, but at the same time you cannot make a copy because that would require circumventing the limited DRM on the cartridge. Fortunately, I don't think anyone has been brought to court over this.

 

[SOLGarion]

I didn't knew that it wasn't legal to make a backup copy of the games you own in US.

I don't think it's officially illegal. Prior to the DMCA it would definitely have been legal, but the DMCA made it illegal to circumvent DRM even for stuff that you own that would comply with fair use. So in the US you can make a copy for format shifting fair use, but at the same time you cannot make a copy because that would require circumventing the limited DRM on the cartridge. Fortunately, I don't think anyone has been brought to court over this.

Exactly. And they only meet once every 3 years to discuss exceptions. Biggest one last year, or year and half ago really, was jailbreaking the iPhone. Now the question is what is the difference between that and a PS3 with the geohot jailbreak thing (or hacking any other game console for that matter). Both computer. Both network capable. Both play games. Both communicate with friends. But the carve out for the DMCA for iPhones is very specific for smart phones, definitely not in the language for anything else. Can't even back up a DVD, format shifting as WS said, and put the original away so it doesn't get damaged, technically. Using only one copy at a time for personal use should be fair use, fuck the DMCA. They haven't gone after end users so much doing thing because they can't really tell who is doing it if you are indeed doing it for personal use. Mostly they try to go after the people who make the hardware to circumvent DRM or any software such as that which cracks DVD/Blu-Ray encryption. They have even gone after various DVR technologies through the years. Most have been deemed legal but some, such as those that automatically cut out commercials as they record, are not considered time shifting as deemed legal in the Sony Betamax case (God Bless you Mr. Rogers) because they alter the content instead of merely shifting the time. Real world reason is the broadcasters didn't want sponsors getting pissed people were not seeing commercials and would pay less money. At least if you have to press FF, the theory goes, you still see them fast or don't always FF every time. I know sometime I can't find the damn remote until the last commercial of a recorded show and then it's kinda like "fuck it" so I can understand that a bit I suppose.


Bottom line is DRM is supposedly to help stop piracy, to protect an authors rights in the digital medium. What it really does is hurt the end consumer, restrict products, and allow manufacturers unfair control over products that should be able to be hacked, messed with, or backed up as per the first sale doctrine and fair use copyright laws in the US. All the damn lobbyist for the game console companies get a boner for the DRM for WAY more than piracy. Great tool to threaten a lawsuit with when you have no legal standing, or shouldn't. And it doesn't matter because the little guy always loses. Bleem WON their case against Sony, helping pave the way for the legality of emulators in general (ROMs on the other hand...), but the cost of litigation bankrupted them.


@Kolden - There is actually a carve out in out copyright laws specifically for renting video games, jukebox machines and Arcade games/coin machines.


Edit: On topic. I think this would be PERFECT for Craigix and Co. to help with. With their connections to suppliers and manufacturers they could probably get it cheaper and to look "cleaner" than it does. Any word from the big boys?

 

[ibisum]

I can imagine a Pandora-like case for this thing that just gloms onto the back of the Pandora, and oila .. instant cartridge-reading action, no more dodgy ROMs from the 'net, and so on.


However I think it would be a very brave move, because it will attract the big guns.

 

[SOLGarion]

I can imagine a Pandora-like case for this thing that just gloms onto the back of the Pandora, and oila .. instant cartridge-reading action, no more dodgy ROMs from the 'net, and so on.


However I think it would be a very brave move, because it will attract the big guns.

Better portable retro game console than anything Ben Heck has made!

 

[Asiyura]

I can imagine a Pandora-like case for this thing that just gloms onto the back of the Pandora, and oila .. instant cartridge-reading action, no more dodgy ROMs from the 'net, and so on.


However I think it would be a very brave move, because it will attract the big guns.

Could even pack the two "missing" shoulder buttons in it

 

[SOLGarion]

But you wouldn't need those for the carts it takes. That would be just for pandora users but you still would never use the shoulder buttons in conjunction with the Retrode. Just seems out of place for me. Maybe I there was a version with and one without, but as the only one it isn't worth it to raise the cost of the unit for a limited pool of consumers.

 

[Blue Protoman]

Why don't they just release a revision of the Pandora with the cartridge slot built in?

 

[SOLGarion]

Why don't they just release a revision of the Pandora with the cartridge slot built in?

Cost would be my only thought there. Already paid for the very expensive molds for the case they have, which has taken a bunch of time to tweak, a BUNCH of time. Plus Craigix said they are going to use the same basic case for the pandora 2. Then there is cost versus a feature not everyone would want or even be able to take advatage. The Pandora is already expensive enough, I shudder to think of the cost plus retrode parts plus the new molds plus all the delays for tweaking the new case to add a function that really is already there. Just not practical. This seems like it would be a lot of redesign for a Pandora 1.5, more than they were plannin for whatever is coming in the next generation.

 

[Blue Protoman]

Why don't they just release a revision of the Pandora with the cartridge slot built in?

Cost would be my only thought there. Already paid for the very expensive molds for the case they have, which has taken a bunch of time to tweak, a BUNCH of time. Plus Craigix said they are going to use the same basic case for the pandora 2. Then there is cost versus a feature not everyone would want or even be able to take advatage. The Pandora is already expensive enough, I shudder to think of the cost plus retrode parts plus the new molds plus all the delays for tweaking the new case to add a function that really is already there. Just not practical. This seems like it would be a lot of redesign for a Pandora 1.5, more than they were plannin for whatever is coming in the next generation.

I hope you realize that I was being sarcastic.

 

[SOLGarion]

I think you over estimate the fame of your wit. And the Internet being what it is, no I didn't think you were being sarcastic. Your attempt at mocking the people making dumb comments highlights the fact that shit load of people seriously make dumb comments. You ain't famous enough on the Internet to pop out as obvious sarcasm to me. Sorry. And since you were obviously referencing the idea of "hanging it" or whatever on the Pandora I figured you were being a dick with your comment, or were serious and were dumb. I was hoping it was just dumb.

 

[SNESFAN]

I think you over estimate the fame of your wit. And the Internet being what it is, no I didn't think you were being sarcastic. Your attempt at mocking the people making dumb comments highlights the fact that shit load of people seriously make dumb comments. You ain't famous enough on the Internet to pop out as obvious sarcasm to me. Sorry. And since you were obviously referencing the idea of "hanging it" or whatever on the Pandora I figured you were being a dick with your comment, or were serious and were dumb. I was hoping it was just dumb.

but come on, look at his post count!!! and in such a small amount of time!


easily the single most popular person on the forum that's not a member of staff


... well maybe besides the infamous redbaron

 

[LineOf7s]

but come on, look at his post count!!! and in such a small amount of time!


easily the single most popular person on the forum that's not a member of staff

Post count = popularity now? :blink:

 

[SOLGarion]

In some peoples minds.

 

[SNESFAN]

but come on, look at his post count!!! and in such a small amount of time!


easily the single most popular person on the forum that's not a member of staff

Post count = popularity now? :blink:

Guess my sarcasm doesn't work as well, suppose my post count needs to be higher for that to work correctly.... Hum

 

[LineOf7s]

but come on, look at his post count!!! and in such a small amount of time!


easily the single most popular person on the forum that's not a member of staff

Post count = popularity now? :blink:

Guess my sarcasm doesn't work as well, suppose my post count needs to be higher for that to work correctly.... Hum

Aaah. Sarcasm. On the internet. I see the problem now.

 

[Matthias_H]

Legality would still be questionable in the USA though, but not in a lot of other countries. I fear the courts will look at using the device as a way to get around DRM, I.e, playing the games without the original hardware.

The definition of DRM is pretty narrow, and the use of exotic media doesn't count as it, unless some encryption or watermarking is involved. The game cartridges I'm aware of don't use DRM but have standard JEDEC-compliant memory chips inside.