Reminder: Fair Deal For Drivers

[Squidge]

The campaign, 'Fair Deal for Drivers' aims to pressure the government into reducing the cost of driving by scrapping the 2p duty rise planned for October, and to abandon plans to increase vehicle excise duty next year for owners of cars registered before 2006. The campaign also urges the government to consider other measures to help drivers during this period of high fuel prices.

You can sign the petition here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jh...5/07/do0710.xml

The petition is backed by the AA, the RAC, the Conservative Party and dozens of Labour MP's. Past petitions and protests have failed due to a lack of organisation and awareness, but with the cost of fuel currently rocketing and the government on the back foot, now seems like the ideal time to push for action. This petition, with the support of an influential newspaper, respected motoring groups, MP's and PetrolPrices.com members, has the power to force Gordon Brown to rethink plans to raise motoring taxes.

If you've suffered as a result of the rising cost of motoring and think it's time drivers got together to make their voices heard then sign the petition, forward it on to friends, family and colleagues, and help make other drivers aware by posting it to social bookmarking sites such as Digg, Reddit and del.icio.us.

 

[craigix]

Squidge, not modded your car in run on LPG yet?

44p per litre!

 

[Magic Sam]

Hi,

Using fuel today to make your car run is like filling your tank with gold or diamonds. Gold, diamonds, and fuel now are valuable things because of their rarity on Earth. As a result, fuel prices can only go higher, and in my opinion, local government decisions can do nothing to prevent it, because it's a global, systemic issue. Maybe this crisis will make everybody think about alternatives, when it comes down to transportation. It could save your wallet and can do no harm to our planet

Bye, Magic Sam

 

[Squidge]

I don't have a problem with fuel costs (34p/litre is still pretty cheap), it's the 70p of tax they apply to it afterwards.

If I did more miles, I would definitely get an LPG conversion done, but Its still a rarity to actually find LPG fillup points around where I live, and if I have to travel 10-15 miles to find one, it kinda defeats the point.

 

[lubidog]

And with LPG the eurotunnel's a no no.
(I think....)

 

[finty]

Get a dirrrrrrty 306 and run it on vegitable oil. Although I hear the prices of that have risen a lot too.

The tax is a bit of a joke. Is it true about two thirds of what we pay for diesel is tax? Thank god for red lol.

 

[Squidge]

Get a dirrrrrrty 306 and run it on vegitable oil. Although I hear the prices of that have risen a lot too.

The tax is a bit of a joke. Is it true about two thirds of what we pay for diesel is tax? Thank god for red lol.

Veg oil is great, but not that practical usually until the engine is at running temperature.

 

[Ganepark32]

I'm not a driver but I do think it is absolutely ridiculous the way in which the Labour Government is penalising you, the drivers, for driving you cars when they have done sod all to gvie us alternatives. You could say public transport represents a viable alternative but the network for public transport sucks which many buses and trains always running late. God forbid one of them should ever be able to get you somewhere on time.

What I don't understand is why there is this need to comtinually tax the shit out of us for petrol. Ok, it's supposed to be aimed at getting people out of their cars but for many people the car is the most viable form of travel. It's ridiculous. It's reasons such as this that really make me glad I haven't bothered to learn to drive, yet I can sympathise with you drivers because both my parent's drive and their going through it.

Oh and @ Finty - Yeh basically 2/3 of the money paid for diesel at the pumps is on tax. It has a higher tax than unleaded because it causes more damage to the environment compared to Unleaded (well at least that is what the government seem to be oing with anyway)

 

[fishybawb]

Their whole "green" argument is bullshit, the economical downturn of late has exposed the fact that they've effectively bankrupted the country, so they need all the sources of revenue they can get. I'm lucky in that I live in a major city (even if it is a bit of a shithole) in that public transport actually is a viable alternative. It's not perfect, but then neither would be sitting in a traffic jam in rush hour. If you're stuck out in the sticks, you don't have much choice...

 

[Sphinxter]

Wish I'd named my bulldog, "Manchester".

 

[finty]

Get a dirrrrrrty 306 and run it on vegitable oil. Although I hear the prices of that have risen a lot too.

The tax is a bit of a joke. Is it true about two thirds of what we pay for diesel is tax? Thank god for red lol.

Veg oil is great, but not that practical usually until the engine is at running temperature.

Yeah but a 306 (or 405, AX etc) with a bosch pump will run on it right from the start. The older bosch pumps are self lubricating so they don't need the lubricants in the diesel. You would have to do a mix in the winter though because the veg oil will go solid when it is too cold. You can also run the newer Lucas pumps on part veg oil but most of the time the pump will just pop (good time to get a bosch one then ).

You can make your own bio-diesel aswell but it requires about a £1200 initial investment to get the refining kit.

Fuck that anyway, biodiesel/veg oil means less powarrrr! Just get a higher paid job lol I kid I kid

 

[lubidog]

I love it how the media paint Mr Brown as a 'Great Chancellor'. The country is 40 fucking billion in Debt!!!!

That's like calling me good with money!!!!! The man is a grade A arsehole! He just bankrolled Tony Blair's awful policies, and now he has gone is left with the truth of all these years of 'making it look good' when in fact it was just false money and credit making us feel we are doing okay!

 

[nickspoon]

I love it how the media paint Mr Brown as a 'Great Chancellor'. The country is 40 fucking billion in Debt!!!!

That's like calling me good with money!!!!! The man is a grade A arsehole! He just bankrolled Tony Blair's awful policies, and now he has gone is left with the truth of all these years of 'making it look good' when in fact it was just false money and credit making us feel we are doing okay!

And then he just smiles and tells us he's the man for the job, while his poll figures plummet. Good on you, Mr. Brown.

The government taxes fuel because it needs the money from it. If it actually made driving a car more expensive than taking a bus or train, and if the alternatives were convenient, then it might shift people to public transport, but it doesn't. People drive just as much, and they're paying more dearly for it. The only benefit to the public I can imagine is that people start buying fewer cars, so the car manufacturers invest more in more efficient engines, but I expect they'd do that regardless of a few pence up or down in fuel duty.

Of course, reducing fuel duty is just painting a pretty pattern over a rotting wall; the problem is still there, you just obscure it from view for a little while. The price of oil is still rising and will probably do so for a while yet. The consumer, the business and the government are all going to feel that, fuel duty increase or no.

 

[finty]

I think it would not matter who was in power now, they are going to get looked at the same way. There is a global recession going on and people are looking for someone to blame. Labour seem like the lesser of two evils to me, and it is worrying that people suddenly think the conservatives have the answers. The fact is the next few years are going to be pretty rough no matter who is PM.

I think now would be a perfect time to open an off licence, as everything else goes down the shitter I bet their sales keep rising .

 

[nickspoon]

Labour seem like the lesser of two evils to me

There are three evils. Don't forget that the Lib Dems surpassed Labour in the local elections. Now I doubt that next term will be a yellow one, but one can hope. Vote Lib Dem!

(I don't think the Lib Dems will magically solve all our problems but damn me if they aren't better than the Conservatives and the other Conservatives.)

 

[craigix]

I know I've been going on about LPG on here for maybe years but I just worked out I've saved £20,000 in the last 8 years on fuel costs.

Forget diesel, too many people have them now, the price is not going to come back down, convert an economical petrol car to LPG (it isn't hard, it's a weekend job with your pals) and you don't have to pay tax on fuel any more.

44p a litre here from the local calor gas centre and 49.9ppl from 2 local garages and 52.9ppl at the big Shell garage. That is cheaper than current american fuel prices!

Brilliant. I did this in 2000. Never worried the slightest about fuel prices ever since. My last car was at 220,000 when some idiot wrote it off by crashing in to it but I went straight out and got another car and converted it.

Vauxhall offer LPG cars from new as do a few other manufacturers, but they usually just go to fleets.

I'm currently running a 728i BMW 2.8 straight 6 twin vanos. Excellent bullet proof engine, 180k on the clock, gets 30mpg average, 40mpg on the motorway. Amazing for such a big car. You can get these cars for under £2000. You can do an LPG conversion for about £600-£800 yourself or £1200 if you want a garage to do it.

Almost 1 in 4 garages now sells LPG - you probably don't even notice the LPG pump as not all garages advertise LPG on the big signs, you might think no where near you sells it but I bet several places do.

Yeah yeah I'm rambling on like a petrol head, or LPG head in this case, but this is the answer to fuel prices!

Ramble ramble etc. etc. .... <goes for a drive>

 

[finty]

Is it true you can't smoke in an LPG converted car? Is there a big hit on performance?

 

[Orkie]

I'm not a driver but I do think it is absolutely ridiculous the way in which the Labour Government is penalising you, the drivers, for driving you cars when they have done sod all to gvie us alternatives.

It won't be any different with any government.

 

[Squidge]

Is it true you can't smoke in an LPG converted car? Is there a big hit on performance?

Well, the L in LPG means liquidfied, so I can only imagine it's as explosive as petrol. With that in mind, I'd say it's just as safe, so you can smoke all you want.

I don't know about performance, but I do know the energy isn't as dense, so you'd probably need 80+ litres of LPG to get the same mileage as 60 litres of petrol.

What I'm more concerned about is that LPG started out life at 30p/litre for cars, and now its over 60p/litre at some garages. No doubt in the next few years, the government (regardless of whos wearing the trousers then) will be taxing it higher and higher as more people convert to it. I wouldn't be suprised seeing it at or above £1/litre in 5 years time. (then again, petrol and diesel at that point will probably be > £2/litre, so still probably a good saving)

 

[craigix]

Is it true you can't smoke in an LPG converted car? Is there a big hit on performance?

Why would you not be able to smoke? Your engine turns petrol in to a gas anyway.

The LPG is just already in the gas form (although as a liquid when in your tank).

This is where the phrase 'give it some gas' comes from.

An LPG car would have as much chance of exploding from smoking as a petrol car.

Actually if you ripped off the LPG hose and set fire to it even then the car would not explode. Just like a petrol engine there are multiple safety systems in place.

There is no noticable performance hit, that was only in older single point conversions, kits from about the year 1999/2000 and on are injection kits which compensate for differences in the energy in lpg vs. petrol.

The change on my car is about 3mpg (or 10%).

If anyone is looking for a smallish 4 door LPG car the Vauxhall Astra Bifuel ones are pretty good and vauxhall can repair them if anything goes wrong. You can pick these up at fleet auctions for about £2000, they get about 400 miles to £20 of LPG.

The Volvo bifuel ones are not so great as they have a small LPG tank and a big engine which leads to only about a 200 mile range on LPG. Weird design.

Now a bifuel Prius exists and must give astonishing economy. I hope they put that in to mass production. LPG can get under the 99g free car tax band (it's a much cleaner fuel) so I think we will see a lot more LPG options on cars in the comping years due to the shift in the way cars are now taxed.

Is it true you can't smoke in an LPG converted car? Is there a big hit on performance?

Well, the L in LPG means liquidfied, so I can only imagine it's as explosive as petrol. With that in mind, I'd say it's just as safe, so you can smoke all you want.

I don't know about performance, but I do know the energy isn't as dense, so you'd probably need 80+ litres of LPG to get the same mileage as 60 litres of petrol.

What I'm more concerned about is that LPG started out life at 30p/litre for cars, and now its over 60p/litre at some garages. No doubt in the next few years, the government (regardless of whos wearing the trousers then) will be taxing it higher and higher as more people convert to it. I wouldn't be suprised seeing it at or above £1/litre in 5 years time. (then again, petrol and diesel at that point will probably be > £2/litre, so still probably a good saving)


Its usually around just under half the price of petrol, they seem to have kept it like that for years, although at one point when petrol first shot up LPG was only a third of the price. People have been telling me it will eventually be as expensive as petrol for 8 years now. It's still about the same difference in price.

It's often a lot cheaper to fill up at bottled gas suppliers (calor gas etc.) it's 44.9ppl at the gas supplier here in Newcastle.

I've never seen it for over 60ppl but I do believe it, especially in London or on the Isles of Wight. But I bet the petrol at those garages is very high too.