Question - Is The Screen Pressure Sensitive?

[KarmaSlave]

Hi all! I'm freshly new here on the forums, but I have been lurking around for some time now, looking for news and generally been a sort of a Gollum character hiding in the shadows looking at the Pandora as if I didn't know if it was my precious or not. My eyes have started to glow a bit recently however with all the vids I've seen so far, and I'm grinding my greedy hands together and smirking wildly at the sight. But! I have one question that I simply can't get the answer to. Trust me - I have searched both on Google and on the forums for pressure sensitivity, or just sensitivity, etc, but so far I've only seen other people asking about it in massive threads where their question seem to have just drowned. Then there were some mentions about banks and sensitive arguments and whatnot... Anyhow.

So, it is obviously well known that the Pandora is equipped with a touch screen, but is it pressure sensitive? Meaning, will it make a difference between various levels of pressure?

For those overly curious (and slightly bereft of a bit of imagination) of when to use such a feature - a drawing application could use it, letting the pressure be a parameter for something (such as opacity, brush size, color, smudge-strength, etc). Such as Colors for the DS/iPhone. Also, it could offer a third dimension to the otherwise 2D screen, which could be used in various crazy chaos synthesizing softwares etc.

I've done my best to try to find this out myself but I have failed. And for a couple of artistic friends and I myself, this issue means a lot in deciding whether we will actually consider buying the console or not.

I would be grateful for a clear response to this!

*steps back into the shadows, grinning, with shiny staring eyes*

 

[mazza558]

Yes - it has 16 levels of pressure.

 

[mali]

mazza558, you are too fast for me
Just for the reference:
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showt...mp;#entry663197

 

[emcp]

Yes - it has 16 levels of pressure.

really,

i thought it was stated it didnt, dont have the quote

ahwell i suppose this makes up for single touch

16 is a good lot, thats why im wondering if its sarcastic

 

[KarmaSlave]

Yes - it has 16 levels of pressure.

Awesome. Thanks for the quick reply!

Hm, 16 levels. Does anyone happen to know how many levels other similar devices has? Such as... well, the DS and iPhone (I don't know any other common platforms with pressure sensitivity really). I wouldn't count Wacom either, since it's made particularly for it and thus must be superior (I'm guessing).

I'm interested to get a mental sort of comparison, a little preview on what one might expect from the Pandora and future drawing applications for it. The Nintendo DS had pretty useful sensitivity, considering the feature isn't really "official" - no officially licensed titles can use the feature because its not perfect enough (you do have to calibrate Colors!, for example, to work good for your DS). The iPhone, I'm guessing, has a lot better and more consistent sensitivity than the DS.

mazza558, you are too fast for me
Just for the reference:
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showt...mp;#entry663197



Ah, a link as well! This is beautiful. I can't wait to see what sort of painting apps will pop up.

mmm... my precious....

 

[Frank Grimes]

Yes - it has 16 levels of pressure.

Awesome. Thanks for the quick reply!

Hm, 16 levels. Does anyone happen to know how many levels other similar devices has? Such as... well, the DS and iPhone (I don't know any other common platforms with pressure sensitivity really). I wouldn't count Wacom either, since it's made particularly for it and thus must be superior (I'm guessing).

I'm interested to get a mental sort of comparison, a little preview on what one might expect from the Pandora and future drawing applications for it. The Nintendo DS had pretty useful sensitivity, considering the feature isn't really "official" - no officially licensed titles can use the feature because its not perfect enough (you do have to calibrate Colors!, for example, to work good for your DS). The iPhone, I'm guessing, has a lot better and more consistent sensitivity than the DS.

mazza558, you are too fast for me
Just for the reference:
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showt...mp;#entry663197



Ah, a link as well! This is beautiful. I can't wait to see what sort of painting apps will pop up.

mmm... my precious....


My Wacom Intuos3 has 1024 pressure levels. I have no idea about the DS or iPhone, but if anyone else knows, I'm interested too.

 

[gadgetoid]

Well the iPhone screen is capacitive, so it doesn't rely on pressure in any way shape or form to actually register a touch. Therefore I don't think it has any pressure sensitivity in the traditional sense.

I'm pretty sure that at a very low level it knows the exact footprint that your finger registers upon the screen and based upon the varying area of your finger that registers with the screen some semblance of pressure sensitivity could be obtained. I think that all iPhone apps get access to is a set of touch locations, which are delivered when the screen driver analyses your touch and extrapolates the rough middle, though.

Therefore, for the iPhone, the amount of pressure sensitivity would be nil.

God forbid anyone harm the screens on their Pandora trying to get a 16th level of pressure by poking hard with the stylus. I can't really see 16 levels being that much use in drawing apps, but I've been spoiled by the Wacom Intuos 3 also.

 

[Kramy]

As long as it's better than the GP2X's, I don't care.

The GP2X had a weird touchscreen... it didn't touch quite where you touched.

I don't care how many levels of pressure sensitivity there are, because that can be emulated by drivers as necessary.

 

[Chip]

Just to clarify, it's only sort-of pressure sensitive. Varying levels can be discerned, but accuracy varies considerably depending on what you're poking the screen with. Further explanation.

 

[Yamara]

This is also answered in the FAQ, though not stated in the same question.

 

[KarmaSlave]

Please no feeding the trolls. I'm certainly no mod, but I'd wish the thread to stay on topic nonetheless. Derailing is not really flattering for the community, and is one of the reasons I couldn't find a serious answer in the first place... >_>

But hm, 16 levels. I guess you could do a lot with it, actually. I mean, it's eternally better than just 1, where in the example of a paint program you would draw or not draw. And if I'm not completely off, I suppose one could software-wise try to simulate more levels of sensitivity by trying to "smooth out" any eventual level-hopping. It will probably be better than the DS - in my experience anyway, since I really couldn't get any good pressure precision with it. I could make soft-to-hard strokes or vice versa, but to try to pinpoint a pressure level just like that is almost impossible for me. Anyhow.

 

[notaz]

16 levels.

Well my LCD appears to be slightly different compared to what will be used for production, so that may change. And the value returned is not very stable, when I put stylus on the LCD and try to keep it steady, the reading keeps jumping +-3 values (or maybe even more).

 

[ledow]

I've always found that "pressure-sensitive" screens are never as good as you think they should be.

I've had pressure-sensitive tablets, touchpads and touchscreens that claim up to 1024 "levels" of sensitivity but all that means is that in the 0.5mm that they actually "move" after you've touched them, there are 1024 discrete levels. Now imagine trying to hit any particular one with a finger. It's impossible and what normally happens if you get "on-hard, on-soft, off".

Even for just 16 levels of pressure, it's hard to get any sort of feel for where those levels are, and the software that compensates by just building up strokes the longer you hold in an area actually tend to work better than all the fancy hardware. I've no doubt that top-notch graphic-designer tablets are better but to me, it's never more than a 3-level affair on any device.

Just think about the worst case - say it's a 5mm thick gap between the top and bottom (vastly exagerrating)... even on a 16-level tablet, that's less than a third of a mm per level. So you're aiming to reliably place your finger within a third of a mm each time you touch it from a distance (i.e. take your finger off).

I'm sure those people with tablets/touchpads/touchscreen which come with software that shows the pressure as a number will tell you, in ordinary use (i.e. not sitting there deliberately trying to get a particular level with instant-feedback from the device) you can't really get more than a couple of levels of pressure out of them because it's either TOO accurate and your finger just blurs all the levels into three distinct groups, or it's not accurate enough in the first place.

Synaptics touchpads in laptops are good examples... that little utility in the taskbar will show you how hard you are pressing with a green dot... it'll either be full, half or nothing.

 

[Racemaniac]

I've always found that "pressure-sensitive" screens are never as good as you think they should be.

I've had pressure-sensitive tablets, touchpads and touchscreens that claim up to 1024 "levels" of sensitivity but all that means is that in the 0.5mm that they actually "move" after you've touched them, there are 1024 discrete levels. Now imagine trying to hit any particular one with a finger. It's impossible and what normally happens if you get "on-hard, on-soft, off".

Even for just 16 levels of pressure, it's hard to get any sort of feel for where those levels are, and the software that compensates by just building up strokes the longer you hold in an area actually tend to work better than all the fancy hardware. I've no doubt that top-notch graphic-designer tablets are better but to me, it's never more than a 3-level affair on any device.

Just think about the worst case - say it's a 5mm thick gap between the top and bottom (vastly exagerrating)... even on a 16-level tablet, that's less than a third of a mm per level. So you're aiming to reliably place your finger within a third of a mm each time you touch it from a distance (i.e. take your finger off).

I'm sure those people with tablets/touchpads/touchscreen which come with software that shows the pressure as a number will tell you, in ordinary use (i.e. not sitting there deliberately trying to get a particular level with instant-feedback from the device) you can't really get more than a couple of levels of pressure out of them because it's either TOO accurate and your finger just blurs all the levels into three distinct groups, or it's not accurate enough in the first place.

Synaptics touchpads in laptops are good examples... that little utility in the taskbar will show you how hard you are pressing with a green dot... it'll either be full, half or nothing.

ehhm, why are you seeing pressure as movement?
there can be 0 movement in you pressing on the screen (with all layers just against eachother), but the levels detecting difference in force (which is what pressure is about, force/surface), it has got nothing to do with a gap or something like that between the screen and the touch sensitive part -_-
if your 1024 levels would go from nothing, to some high pressure that would require you to really put a lot of force on the screen, it might give some interesting possibilities (if it's in any way accurate).

 

[Xmas]

ehhm, why are you seeing pressure as movement?
there can be 0 movement in you pressing on the screen (with all layers just against eachother), but the levels detecting difference in force (which is what pressure is about, force/surface), it has got nothing to do with a gap or something like that between the screen and the touch sensitive part -_-

You can only measure force by observing the movement/deformation it causes.

 

[Racemaniac]

ehhm, why are you seeing pressure as movement?
there can be 0 movement in you pressing on the screen (with all layers just against eachother), but the levels detecting difference in force (which is what pressure is about, force/surface), it has got nothing to do with a gap or something like that between the screen and the touch sensitive part -_-

You can only measure force by observing the movement/deformation it causes.

ehhh no: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectric
okay, the sensors in a screen probably work with some form of movement in it, but that is irrelevant for you. the movement will be so small you couldn't possible be that accurate. the point is the pressure (hence pressure sensitive, not indent sensitive). if the pressure range is broad enough, it is something we can easily control, without having to be aware of the movement (since you probably could't possible see/feel it since it's so small)

 

[Xmas]

ehhh no: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectric

You will find that the article mentions deformation several times. It's just on a very small scale. I'm not arguing you need large deformations, but to generate the counter-force that is necessary for equilibrium something has to change.

 

[audovoice]

it might be nice if there were a VERY simple application that just showed a box that darkened from white to black in correspondence to how hard you push on the touch screen. It might help people get used to the screen.

 

[ant]

it might be nice if there were a VERY simple application that just showed a box that darkened from white to black in correspondence to how hard you push on the touch screen. It might help people get used to the screen.

well, that, and maybe a utility to calibrate pressure settings, like you can with wacom tablets.

that way everybody can be happy, from those who prefer a lot of pressure (like me), to those that prefer very little.

would something like that be possible?

 

[nubie]

it might be nice if there were a VERY simple application that just showed a box that darkened from white to black in correspondence to how hard you push on the touch screen. It might help people get used to the screen.

I would prefer an app that modeled what the actual sensor was pulling in by using a dot that grew larger and was accurately placed on the screen.

My laptop has an app like that, I can't remember what brand of touchpad that was though.