Pyra Phone

[WizardStan]

Im not saying that

That seems to be what you're saying. You're against putting a phone module into the Pyra for security concerns even after I pointed out that people carry phones all the time and have no problem with it. If you're against people having a phone module in the Pyra but not against people carrying cell phones then there is a contradiction in your argument from the very start.

but where is the phone software we need on linux?

The "API" for these things is really straight forward, it's modified Hayes protocol. You open the port, give it AT commands, and then stream data back and forth. If software is your concern then I will pledge right now to write the driver for it should the Pyra actually get one that doesn't come with a Linux driver. Here's a guy who wrote a Python script for testing the modules he was playing with: it is that easy. More advanced features just use different AT commands, and they're all documented.Out of all the problems with installing a phone module, software is one of the easiest to fix.

 

[ekianjo]

software is one of the easiest to fix.

Then why nobody has written anything to make Linux-based phones with GUI and associated tools until now ? It would seem strange that we are the first ones to think about making a linux based phone hardware. Am I missing something?

You're against putting a phone module into the Pyra for security concerns even after I pointed out that people carry phones all the time and have no problem with it.

Well I have a problem with it, but if this Pyra phone is a separate model, fine - as long as we have choice. 

 

[WizardStan]

Well I have a problem with it, but if this Pyra phone is a separate model, fine - as long as we have choice

Did you seriously not read what I wrote? It would have saved a lot of time.I'll repeat: these phone modules are exactly that, modules. You plug them in, remove them, swap them around, it's all very simple. It would give you the freedom to select the module for your region, get a world wide module, or save $100 and forgo the whole thing. I even made sure to use othering language to make it clear that I was talking about a module for other people and cell phones used by other people.

Then why nobody has written anything to make Linux-based phones with GUI and associated tools until now ?

You mean like the OpenMoko 7 years ago? or the N900 5 years ago? You are aware that these things exist, yes? And now Ubuntu is making a Linux based phone. Linux has existed for phones for about as long as Android.Linux phones aren't a big thing because businesses have it in their head that people don't want a Linux phone. Imagine that? It has nothing to do with whether software exists or is easy to write, it's all about what people want, and most people, by the largest margin, don't care about Linux. This is an unfortunate fact that you will have to accept.

 

[comradekingu]

Or Trolltech http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenphone from 2006. I remember wanting to buy one, but you had to be a board member or something to get it

 

[EvilDragon]

The Jolla, GTA02, GTA04 and NEO900 are all phones using Linux (mostly debian derivates)... so yeah, there IS software.

 

[ekianjo]

so yeah, there IS software.

Or rather, there was, since most of these open source projects for Linux phones are apparently discontinued :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_mobile_phones

Not sure if it's up to date, though. Firefox OS seems to be the only remaining candidate currently for that purpose (commercially available).

The NEO900 is still a project at this stage, it is not readily available yet.

 

[EvilDragon]

so yeah, there IS software.

Or rather, there was, since most of these open source projects for Linux phones are apparently discontinued :

The Jolla has just been released a few months ago...?

 

[rohezal]

The gta02 and 04 mailing list are still active and Radek Polak is still releasing qtmoko updates.

 

[Wally]

Automatic message

This topic has been moved from "Pandora → General Talk" to "Pyra → Pyra Community Ideas".

 

[Natsu]

A full Pyra Phone with a ~6in screen would replace few of my devices.

 

[WizardStan]

Or rather, there was, since most of these open source projects for Linux phones are apparently discontinued

Software doesn't usually cease to exist as soon as people stop working on it, the source is all still there, the N900 even still has an active hacking community that still makes occasional improvements to the operating system. Not to mention the phones that have recently been released and are still upcoming.So there is no "was", it very much "is".

 

[risho]

 

And you can say goodbye about privacy if you integrate a phone capability, since phone modules run their own secret OS in the background, and who knows what they do.

First, some people are ok with that. If you're seriously that paranoid just don't get it. Modular means optional. Hundreds of millions (possibly billions?) of people around the world already own a cell phone, so for us whatever privacy concerns you might have are already present: if our phone is spying on us then it's spying on us, and another device which may or may not be spying on us in the same way is of little concern.
Second... wut? These modules have no microphone or speaker of their own, they depend entirely on the connected device to handle sound. If the Pyra isn't actively sending audio data then there isn't any way for them to broadcast audio data. If position data is a concern, GPS uses a lot of power and since the Pyra would be in full control of the power going to the module these signature power spikes would be very obvious, there'd be no way to hide the fact that the cell module has turned on its GPS without your permission. So the only information anyone could secretly gather is cell based location. This is unlike existing mobile phones where the system does not have to actively provide audio data, and cannot monitor power spikes; if you already own a cell phone, there is a significantly higher possibility of your privacy being secretly compromised than there would be if you were using a theoretical cell module in a Pyra.


And finally, if privacy is really a concern but you still need a cell phone, and you're so very paranoid about privacy that you have it turned completely off when not in use and only activate it when you absolutely have to, unlike current cell phones where you can tell them to put it into airplane mode but you aren't really sure if it's really killed all power to the radios or if they can't reactivate themselves somehow secretly, the Pyra will be in full control of the power supply so you should feel secure knowing that cutting the power really means the power has been cut, completely severed, no chance of a "secret OS" being used to spy on you.

 

How is it paranoid to be concerned about privacy?

a mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance.

First of all they are violating people's privacy so there is no delusion. Second of all obviously they aren't interested in me as a unique entity because that would be incredibly grandious to think that way, but if something came up where they did become interested in me I wouldn't want them to have the ability to track what I'm doing. Is there really something wrong with wanting to protect yourself from that?

Concern for privacy =/= paranoia. It's stupid to make a claim like that.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Concern for privacy =/= paranoid.  But overly concern for privacy == paranoid, me thinks

 

[ShleeDragon]

I've had this idea before..

the pyra phone should just be a phone with no GSM.. a SIP phone with a touchscreen a linux stack

 

[WizardStan]

Concern for privacy =/= paranoia. It's stupid to make a claim like that.

Ok, I haven't the time to argue semantics on this, they are entirely irrelevant to the point being made. If you are that concerned about particular word choice, when I say "paranoid" feel free to mentally replace that with the more political "concerned" and it will still accomplish the exact same thing.

 

[bzar]

Isn't the difference between "concerned" and "paranoid" mostly "bad things may happen, but haven't yet so I don't have any conclusive evidence/bad things are happening, here's the conclusive evidence" versus "bad things are happening, but I don't have any evidence because the man is keeping it secret"? For example, I'm concerned that all the data Google has on our lives may be used for bad stuff at some point. I'm not paranoid about it, so because of lack of evidence I don't claim it has yet happened. I'm also concerned about the NSA snooping everything and because there is reasonable evidence of it I'm not paranoid to think they are doing it. I am a bit paranoid about Apple's and Microsoft's apparent direction because I think they are slowly going full-on app-store only on desktop, but I don't have any conclusive evidence to support it.

 

[God Ginrai]

I hate rooting/jail breaking my phone and my relatives' phone because once the new firmware is out, you have to redo it.  What a hassle.

The Pandora is the ultimate open-source handheld UMPC and so will its successor, the Pyra, be.

Now I want to have an open-source phone so I don't  have to root/reroot.  I know the Pyra will not have phone capability, but will Pyra team be interested in creating an open-source phone after the Pyra?  So I can have a PYRA UMPC and Pyraphone

 
Making a phone, and maintaining software that deals with the actual phone parts, is actually really tough work. I think it would be best to just get one of the other open phones out there.

ED said he's interested

Citation needed. (Or EvilDragon himself can weigh in)

The only thing I've ever seen EvilDragon say related to this issue was that he was considering a 3G chip, for 3G data purposes. That is not the same thing as being interested in making the Pyra into a phone.

-God Ginrai

 

[FBnil]

ring ring ring, ring ring ring,

the pyraphone.

ring ring ring, ring ring ring,

the pyraphone.

I've got this feeling, it's so appealing,
for us to get together and sing. Sing!

Ring ring ring ring ring ring ring the pyraphone.
Ding dong ding dong ding dong ding pandoraphone.
It grows in bunches, I've got my hunches,
It's the best! Beats the rest!
Cellular, modular, interactivodular!

Don't need quarters, don't need dimes,
to call a friend of mine!
Don't need computer or TV,
to have a real good time!
I'll call for pizza. I'll call my nyancat.
I'll call the craigix, have a chat!
I'll place a call around the world, operator get me Evil Drag-on-on-on!

 

[Fzero]

...never alone, with PYRAFONE

 

[MarioPandio]

Wizardstan post#10 makes a very convincing argument for Pyra to have an optional phone capability.


Personally I'm not paranoid enough to be bothered by using a separate cell phone but clearly a large market is tapped into of concerned folk who want total control of their data or privacy, if the Pyra has such a feature.


Privacy concerns may heighten further still in future and that's all good money for dragon box projects to make up for the bad luck the ancestor Pandora project suffered imhho.